Can you Brew It recipe for Stone Arrogant Bastard

[balto charlie]

Is there any harm in using 2 packets?

2 shouldn't hurt

 

[balto charlie]

sweet, Im gonna try this recipe this weekend too!! Making the starter tonight for a monday brew day.

let us know how it goes .

missed my OG. Don't know what happened!! Usually get 75% ef. Not this time, ended @ 1.058 for a 68% ef. Kinda bummed but it's still beer My temps dropped in my mash tun. Started @ 149 but dropped to 145!! Temps around here are getting really cold perhaps I should have taken that into account. My first winter brewing this season.

 

[bmason1623]

missed my OG. Don't know what happened!! Usually get 75% ef. Not this time, ended @ 1.058 for a 68% ef. Kinda bummed but it's still beer My temps dropped in my mash tun. Started @ 149 but dropped to 145!! Temps around here are getting really cold perhaps I should have taken that into account. My first winter brewing this season.

I've been letting Beersmith calculate the strike temp based on the temp of my grains *and* mash tun. This has worked well for me so far.

 

[bmason1623]

I'll probably use 2 packets just to be safe. Thanks everyone for your input.

 

[HItransplant]

missed my OG. Don't know what happened!! Usually get 75% ef. Not this time, ended @ 1.058 for a 68% ef. Kinda bummed but it's still beer My temps dropped in my mash tun. Started @ 149 but dropped to 145!! Temps around here are getting really cold perhaps I should have taken that into account. My first winter brewing this season.

huh.. well you only missed it by a bit.
How long did you mash?
how did you sparge?

did the rest of your brew day smooth out?

 

[balto charlie]

huh.. well you only missed it by a bit.
How long did you mash?
how did you sparge?

did the rest of your brew day smooth out?

mashed for 75 minutes
2 batch sparges @ 10 minutes each

rest of brew day went smoothly. Pitched the yeast starter and had activity later that same day.
Usually I don't worry if my Eff is off but when I try to make a clone, I want my numbers to be closer.

 

[BigJay13]

Just listened to the show but didn't pay too much attention to two things: SG (I thought Tasty said 1071 but the latest recipe here has 1066 so I thought I'd ask) and also fermentation temp--did anyone catch this?

 

[HItransplant]

mashed for 75 minutes
2 batch sparges @ 10 minutes each

rest of brew day went smoothly. Pitched the yeast starter and had activity later that same day.
Usually I don't worry if my Eff is off but when I try to make a clone, I want my numbers to be closer.

I gave it a shot yesterday.. Hit my mash temp perfectly, but had trouble keeping it there (I did stay within 5 on either end and at 148 for the majority of the mash time)--- RDWHAHB.

everything else went well except that when I put the carboy in the water bath and started the swamp cooler(carboy at 70 deg)....I cooled a little too much (carboy temp was 64 this AM when I went to check). I took the swamp cooler down and put in a couple of warm water bottles vs. the frozen ones. Hopefully it wont be 75 when I get home .

I dont think one night at low ferm temps will hurt anything... oh well, RDWHAHB.

Tonight... im going to try making some spent grain bread. ... gotta love this hobby.

 

[EricCSU]

Just listened to the show but didn't pay too much attention to two things: SG (I thought Tasty said 1071 but the latest recipe here has 1066 so I thought I'd ask) and also fermentation temp--did anyone catch this?

I did notice a different OG. I will double check it later. I never heard a ferment temp, I will ask Tasty what he did.

Eric

 

[HItransplant]

Just listened to the show but didn't pay too much attention to two things: SG (I thought Tasty said 1071 but the latest recipe here has 1066 so I thought I'd ask) and also fermentation temp--did anyone catch this?

thats interesting, because at 1066, the IBU was 87 ish, outside the style characteristics... I just figured, "how arrogant."

came home to a beautiful sight... a crazy yeast orgy, big head of krausen, and 66 degrees on the fermometer... sweeeeet. (excited to be able to actually keep the temps below room temp--means Im getting better at this swamp cooler thing).

hopefully thats the fermentation temp, but it would be nice to know what tasty did, since this is, after all, a clone. I can still adjust, balto too for that matter.

 

[Irrenarzt]

Made this a couple weeks back, nailed the OG and it's finishing up now. I think it's damn close and I used one pack of S-04 instead of two and my numbers are finishing up pretty close to right (I'm at 1.016 now with a few days left).

 

[BigJay13]

SG 1071
FG 1013
80 IBU
27.6 SRM

WLP007, ferment at 67F

I'm assuming the numbers didn't change too much from the original recipe, did they? OG 1071 and 67*--that answers my question. If anyone gets the chance to listen to that part of the brewcast again please post what they did the last time around.

 

[balto charlie]

So many different numbers???
SG 1.066 or 1.071
IBUs 80 or 94

Well I hit the ferm temp at least

 

[HItransplant]

I'm assuming the numbers didn't change too much from the original recipe, did they?

actually.. they did. Just a little though.

Hey guys,
Heard back from Tasty and it seems like this is very, very, very close. I didn't hear the entire show due to work, but it seemed like everyone but Tasty thought it was there. Here's the info I have:

OG 1.066

90% US 2-Row
10% Special B

Chinook 24g 13%AA @ 85', 45', 15', and 0'.

WLP007

Anyone else surprised that the recipe is this simple? That there is no dry hops?

I totally believe that this recipe will get your there, but I was a bit surprised how simple it is too.

Thanks to Tasty for all of his hard work.

Eric

 

[BigJay13]

actually.. they did. Just a little though.

Thanks--I must have missed that. I could have sworn in the episode he said 1071 for his and that Stone was 1072. I'll have to go back and listen again tonight.

 

[EricCSU]

Tasty says mash at 148 for 60 minutes.

Now go get brewing!

Eric

 

[HItransplant]

Tasty says mash at 148 for 60 minutes.

Now go get brewing!

Eric

thought it was 75.. woops. eh, shouldnt cause too much trouble.


right?

 

[EricCSU]

thought it was 75.. woops. eh, shouldnt cause too much trouble.


right?

Well, that is what he told me.

But, when I brew this, I will mash for 90 minutes. I always mash for 90 when I go 148 or lower, otherwise I risk an unreliable efficiency.

Also, whenever I do a 90 minute mash, I do a 15 minute boil extract pale ale while I wait for the mash. Two beers for the time it takes to do one!

Eric

 

[BigJay13]

Just listened to it on the drive home. 1066 it is--I think I had a few too many the first time around!

 

[balto charlie]

Also, whenever I do a 90 minute mash, I do a 15 minute boil extract pale ale while I wait for the mash. Two beers for the time it takes to do one!

Eric

I went with the original 75 minutes and think this is why my eff was lower than expected. Next time I will go with my typical 90 min. Smart idea going w/ a second brew.

 

[EricCSU]

I went with the original 75 minutes and think this is why my eff was lower than expected. Next time I will go with my typical 90 min. Smart idea going w/ a second brew.

Make sure you get a good mash out too. That always kills my efficiency when I don't.

Eric

 

[balto charlie]

Make sure you get a good mash out too. That always kills my efficiency when I don't.

Eric

Really?? I always thought eff was determined by grain crush, mash temp and mash length. I always thought mash out stop enzyme activity so beer gravity stays where you want it? Where am I wrong, how do you do your mash out so it improves OG. Thanks for any insight.

 

[MikeG]

Really?? I always thought eff was determined by grain crush, mash temp and mash length. I always thought mash out stop enzyme activity so beer gravity stays where you want it? Where am I wrong, how do you do your mash out so it improves OG. Thanks for any insight.

Yep. Look at item #3: http://www.beersmith.com/blog/2008/07/04/5-ways-to-improve-your-all-grain-beer-efficiency/

 

[balto charlie]

Yep. Look at item #3: http://www.beersmith.com/blog/2008/07/04/5-ways-to-improve-your-all-grain-beer-efficiency/

I guess I always felt my "mash-out" was my first batch sparge which raises the grain temp to 168-170. So are you guys saying I will increase my eff if I mash out with some the mash. I assume this should be a thin mash and not thick like double dec brewing?

 

[Mad_Milo]

If you batch sparge (I do), you can just treat mash-out as an infusion to calculate your qty of boiling water to raise your temp to 170. Then you can sparge as usual.

I have also found that performing a double batch sparge by dividing your regular sparge in half boosts your efficiency a bit. I've gained 3-5% by doing this. Just be sure your sparge is at temp (170), not boiling!

 

[MikeG]

I guess I always felt my "mash-out" was my first batch sparge which raises the grain temp to 168-170. So are you guys saying I will increase my eff if I mash out with some the mash. I assume this should be a thin mash and not thick like double dec brewing?

Mash-out is a process; your first batch sparge (rinsing) is your first runnings. Getting that closest as possible to <170F helps the sparge/mash-out process to collect as much sugar as possible in your wort.

 

[2bluewagons]

aa bit, but whenever I have done a mash out (I batch sparge) I have gotten a big down dip in efficiency due to thinning out my first runnings. Then I reach my boil volume with just a single sparge, so I left a lot of sugars in there. I guess you have to make sure your mash is a little thicker to begin with to account for the mash-out water, huh?

But the two beers I made recently with this problem both have amazing malt profiles, I think it concentrated the specialty malts?

OK, back to AB, I will be brewing this at some point...

 

[HItransplant]

Make sure you get a good mash out too. That always kills my efficiency when I don't.
Eric

Really?? I always thought eff was determined by grain crush, mash temp and mash length. I always thought mash out stop enzyme activity so beer gravity stays where you want it? Where am I wrong, how do you do your mash out so it improves OG. Thanks for any insight.

me too.

Yep. Look at item #3: http://www.beersmith.com/blog/2008/07/04/5-ways-to-improve-your-all-grain-beer-efficiency/

number 3 talks about sparging.. I think there is some confusion.

I guess I always felt my "mash-out" was my first batch sparge which raises the grain temp to 168-170. So are you guys saying I will increase my eff if I mash out with some the mash. I assume this should be a thin mash and not thick like double dec brewing?

your first batch sparge "acts" like a mashout.. but only for the grainbed left after first runnings. The wort you lautered during the first runnings hasnt been "mashed-out," but you can accomplish the same thing by lautering straight it into your kettle and starting it on heat.

heres another attempt at explanation adapted from "How To Brew"

What is Mashout?

Before the sweet wort is drained from the mash and the grain is rinsed (sparged) of the residual sugars, many brewers perform a mashout. Mashout is the term for raising the temperature of the mash to 170°F prior to lautering. This step stops all of the enzyme action (preserving your fermentable sugar profile) and makes the grainbed and wort more fluid. ......
.......A lot of homebrewers tend to skip the mashout step for most mashes with no consequences.

What is Sparging?

Sparging is the rinsing of the grain bed to extract as much of the sugars from the grain as possible without extracting mouth-puckering tannins from the grain husks. Typically, 1.5 times as much water is used for sparging as for mashing.


so.. my take is:

1. mashout is done before lautering to increase sugars dissolved in first runnings. sparging is done afterward to increase sugars dissolved in second runnings.

2. If you have a "normal" mash thickness (ie, in the middle of the bell shaped curve), and are adhering to the typical limitations on grain without husk, you shouldnt have any efficiency benefit from a mashout.

Conclusion:
it sounds like sparging and mashing both acomplish "thinning" out the sugars, ergo, if you do a good enough sparge, you shouldnt need a mashout-- which probably explains why how to brew says most homebrewers dont do one.

whew.. I feel smarter. Does that make sense to anyone else though?

 

[balto charlie]

whew.. I feel smarter. Does that make sense to anyone else though?

makes sense, thanks. Usually I put my first runnings onto the burner and start my boil. Then I add the 1st and 2nd sparges as they finish. SOMETIMES I wait for the 1st sparge to finish before I add the first runnings and first sparge to the burner. Perhaps this is the reason for the lower Eff this last time. I won't do that anymore. Thanks all Charlie

 

[Apendecto]

Here is the updated recipe from the re-brew show:

SG: 1066
IBU 94.8
SRM 22.5

90 minute boil

90% US 2-row 6.5kg
10% Special B 730g

24g chinook 13%AA @ 85m
24g chinook @ 45m
24g chinook @15m
24g chinook @ 0m

WLP007

Mash at 148F

Notes:
The majority deemed this cloned, but Tasty (the brewer) believes that he could get the recipe closer and would like to brew this again. Jamil believes that the only difference is a slight change in aroma, which he believes is due to pasteurization of the Stone AB.

Just to add, from the original interview with Mitch Steele he said their water comes out to be 100 ppm hardness.