Campden tablets changed color of my wine...

[crj5000]

This is a 3 gallon batch of muscadine wine and it just finished secondary fermentation. So it was time to add the 1 and 1/2 tsp of sorbate and the 3 campden tablets while de-gassing. I wanted a blush wine, so I let the pulp sit in the must for under 2 days. The color was in between pink and red, more toward the pink side. I took a cup and 1/2 of wine out to add the campden tablets to. I did notice that the campden tablets changed the color of the wine to a light gold color, but I did not think it would change all of the 3 gallons. After adding the campden tablets to the whole batch the color is now a bronze/orangish color. I figure there is nothing I can about the color now, but does anyone know what happened and how I can prevent it in the future?

 

[RobWalker]

Are you sure its due to the campden? Did you leave it in sunlight? It will appear lighter when there's less volume too because the light will come through better

 

[Yooper]

Sulfites don't change the color of wine.

 

[WIP]

Is your acid level where you want it? Adding tartaric will bring back some of the red color. However, I don't think it is a huge problem. I have a Rose' that is pink in the bottle and kinda orange in the glass, tastes great.

 

[gregbathurst]

Camden tablets do bind to pigments in wine. You wouldn't normally notice in a red wine, but if you have just a blush of pink, it will definitely take some colour out. I think lowering the pH might actually make it worse, since it frees up more so2. The process is reversible, so some colour may come back with time (not really sure).

 

[crj5000]

Here are the before and after pictures. The picture does not show how vibrant the pink/red color was. It was definitely the campden tablets. As soon as I added them to the cup and 1/2 of wine I had, it went from pink to a pale gold instantly.

 

[Yooper]

The wine doesn't even look clear yet, so the final color isn't determined. Once it's clear, it won't be pink at all from the looks of it. I have rhubarb wine that finishes golden, as when the sediment drops out, much of the reddish color does too.

It seems rather early to stabilize the wine, since it's not clear yet.

 

[gregbathurst]

When I add camden to red wine there is always a little area where the concentrated camden (so2) strips the colour from the wine. Once it is mixed in the effect disappears. You can try the same thing yourself. Pour a small glass of red wine and add a dissolved camden tablet. You will see how it strips the colour.

 

[crj5000]

I am still new to making wine, and have not even made it to bottling yet. I am also working on a island mist kit, so I am using it as a guide. The kit stabilizes right after secondary fermentation, so I was just applying their directions to my muscadine wine. I followed jack kellers receipe with a few changes. It seems next time I should let the pulp sit over 2 days in the must to get a deeper color.

 

[Yooper]

I am still new to making wine, and have not even made it to bottling yet. I am also working on a island mist kit, so I am using it as a guide. The kit stabilizes right after secondary fermentation, so I was just applying their directions to my muscadine wine. I followed jack kellers receipe with a few changes. It seems next time I should let the pulp sit over 2 days in the must to get a deeper color.

I haven't had much luck with getting concord or catawba grapes darker than a light blush, but you can definitely try.

With wines, (aside from the kits), you want to wait until it's clear and been topped up for a while before stabilizing and sweetening. Remember that the kits are rushing you to bottle, and they clear quickly due to the bentonite added at primary and the SuperKleer finings added at stabilizng and degassing. With "regular" wines, you don't usually degass and you don't stabilize until getting ready to bottle. No harm, but the color will change a LOT more before you're ready to bottle as it clears. You may have a golden color wine in the end.

 

[crj5000]

Thanks for the information. Just curious, but wouldn't the wine clear faster if you de-gassed right after secondary fermentation? I am "seeing" the co2 "hold up" particles that need to fall out. So it seems to me the wine would clear faster if it was de-gassed earlier.

Also does anyone add bentonite to their must, like the kit wines, to make the process faster?

 

[Yooper]

Thanks for the information. Just curious, but wouldn't the wine clear faster if you de-gassed right after secondary fermentation? I am "seeing" the co2 "hold up" particles that need to fall out. So it seems to me the wine would clear faster if it was de-gassed earlier.

Also does anyone add bentonite to their must, like the kit wines, to make the process faster?

Yes, you can degas if you'd like.

You can also add finings to speed up the process.

The cool thing about winemaking is you don't have to degas if you give the wine enough time to degas on its own, and the same is true of fining. You don't have to fine (usually) if you give the wine enough time to clear on its own. Since I have friends who are vegetarians and and would never expect meat by-products, fish or shellfish in their wine, my preference is to go without finings or use sparkalloid when all else has failed.

Wine will drop lees for a while, so I rack every 60 days or so whenever I have lees 1/4" thick or so. Once the wine has cleared and no new lees drop after 60 days, then I bottle (if I feel like it- I have 21 gallons that should be bottled one of these days/months/years). Just the racking and time will usually clear and degas the wine just fine. Sometimes, to cold stabilize a wine with excess tartaric acid, I stick it in a very cold place. That also clears it as well as drops out the "wine diamonds". If you're in a big hurry, you could try finings and degassing, but a 13% ABV beverage needs time to mellow anyway, so I don't see a need to rush to bottle it.

 

[crj5000]

Here is a picutre I took on the 16th, so 8 days after I posted the first pictures. Alot of the color has come back, and the sparkolloid has definatly been working. I havent tasted it yet, but at least the color has come back. Next time I will wait longer before stabilizing as you suggested Yooper.

 

[Yooper]

Ooooh, it's really beautiful! I LOVE the color! Thanks for the pictures.

 

[crj5000]

Since this is my first muscadine wine and I love posting pictures, Here are a few more. The first is the juice that I got out of the muscadines without using a press. All I have is a potato masher and the process was messy... The second pic is after I added the water. And the third pic is after 2 days of fermentation. This is when I took out the pulp. Not a very good pic though.

 

[Michael Gonzales]

This is a 3 gallon batch of muscadine wine and it just finished secondary fermentation. So it was time to add the 1 and 1/2 tsp of sorbate and the 3 campden tablets while de-gassing. I wanted a blush wine, so I let the pulp sit in the must for under 2 days. The color was in between pink and red, more toward the pink side. I took a cup and 1/2 of wine out to add the campden tablets to. I did notice that the campden tablets changed the color of the wine to a light gold color, but I did not think it would change all of the 3 gallons. After adding the campden tablets to the whole batch the color is now a bronze/orangish color. I figure there is nothing I can about the color now, but does anyone know what happened and how I can prevent it in the future?

I have experienced the same phenomenon. When I add campden tablets to my red Muscadine wine, it turns from a beautiful red color to an orange and even yellow color. I check the ph (3.4) before and after adding the campden tablets. No one seems to know the answer to this phenomenon. I have quit using campden tablets when I bottle my muscadine wine. I did a bench trial test by adding increasing amounts of crushed campden tablets to a specific volume of wine. The wine varied in color from orange to white, white being the highest concentration of campden tablets. I am assuming the there is adequate sulfates in the wine and any addition sulfite effects the color so I quiet using sulfites in order to preserve the beautiful red color of my Muscadine wine.

 

[jgmillr1]

Bleaching from sulfites is pretty well documented. I don't really notice it aside from rose wines that have had very little skin contact.

I used to get Catawba juice from a place that would crush and press it for me, without heating the must. It began fermentation as a beautiful light rose but ended up more of a golden color after the fermentation was done and it bleached. This happened even with relatively low (50ppm) sulfite additions to the must. Other juice producers heat the must during that process, extracting more anthocyanin pigment and making for a darker juice. When I make Catawba from grapes out of the vineyard, I allow several days of skin contact and it remains a lovely rose hue.

 

[Michael Gonzales]

Bleaching from sulfites is pretty well documented. I don't really notice it aside from rose wines that have had very little skin contact.

I used to get Catawba juice from a place that would crush and press it for me, without heating the must. It began fermentation as a beautiful light rose but ended up more of a golden color after the fermentation was done and it bleached. This happened even with relatively low (50ppm) sulfite additions to the must. Other juice producers heat the must during that process, extracting more anthocyanin pigment and making for a darker juice. When I make Catawba from grapes out of the vineyard, I allow several days of skin contact and it remains a lovely rose hue.

Thank you.

 

[Habs]

Okay so I know this counts as thread necromancy, but since I googled "why does sorbate change the color of wine" and this was the first thing to pop up, I thought it would be worthwhile to add my two cents.

Any time I stabilize a wine, whether it be a red or something light like Dragons Blood, I always take a cup of the wine and mix the sorbate and sulfite together in it. Every time, this gives the wine a coppery hue, no matter what type of wine it is. The effect is a bit worse in a lighter wine like dragon blood, but not at all noticeable when I pour the mix into a red.

Anyhoo. I googled this because I just tried my first white that had pomegranate juice in it. Like the original poster, my wine displayed a lovely pink hue, but after the stabilizing it turned the wine baby pee yellow. I was going to just deal with it, but I wanted to know the science behind it. Now I'm not sure which element is causing the color change, the sulfite or the sorbate. Either case, it's nice to see that it will regain a lot of its pink hue. Thanks for sharing, OP!

 

[jgmillr1]

Now I'm not sure which element is causing the color change, the sulfite or the sorbate

Breathing life into a dead thread!

It's the Sulfites that are doing the bleaching. Not sure of the chemistry behind it. I'm guessing it is coming from the sulfites binding with the anthocyanin color molecules which causes them to change their absorption spectrum.

You can see a similar effect of increasing the pH with wine and noting it's color dramatically changing when the pH gets above 8. Red wines can turn blue; strawberry wine goes yellow; white wines turn urine yellow.

 

[Habs]

So would it be safe to say that when the sulfites leave the wine (ah, correct me if my memory fails, but through some sort of binding with oxygen and dissolving into headspace...) then the true color will return?

Yes, I've seen leftover bits of red wine turn indigo when cleaning my equipment in hot water, always wondered what was going on there. Very cool. Science; praise be unto it!