C.C. Tocobaga Red recipe help.

[wilfonzo]

I can't find any info at all about the Cigar City Tocobaga Red ale, My palate is not nearly good enough to be able to tell what's in it. I haven't had anything that tastes even close to it. I will be taking a trip to the C.C. Brewery soon and hopefully get some insight there.

I'd like to brew it soon because I just cant get enough of the stuff.

 

[HokieBrewer]

From their website:
This 75 IBU red ale is amber in color with notes of citrus and caramel. Flavor has citrus hop bitterness upfront with notes of caramel and an Amish bread sweetness. Citrus hop bitterness returns at the end for a long dry finish. A very hoppy yet balanced American red ale.

ABV: 7.2% IBU: 75 OG: 18 SRM: 15

I'd start with 2-row, Caramel 40, Caramel 120, and a lot of C hops. Play around with Beersmith / Hopville and see how close you can come.

 

[wilfonzo]

I haven't thought of that, I'll give it a try. I think The hardest part may be figuring out which hops.

EDIT: after playing around with Beersmith, I hit all the numbers. I guess whats left is giving it a try.



Thanks for the help.

 

[HokieBrewer]

If they emphasize citrus that much, I'd guess it'd be some combination of Cascade/Centennial/maybe Citra or Simcoe.

Edit probably Amarillo too

 

[wilfonzo]

Hopefully they just tell me at the brewery, if not i'll just try the above. I'm sure it will be delicious either way.

 

[ArcaneXor]

E-mail Wayne. He's pretty good about sharing info with homebrewers.

I know the malts they use are primarily Rahr for domestic base, with some Weyermann and Fawcett (and I think Briess, I don't remember) for other grains. They use the Thames Valley ale strain to ferment.

 

[wilfonzo]

here's what i came up with.


Tocobaga
American Amber Ale


Type: All Grain
Date: 12/30/2011
Batch Size: 5.00 gal
Brewer: Butters
Boil Size: 6.41 gal Asst Brewer:
Boil Time: 60 min Equipment: Brew Pot (7.5 gal) and Igloo Cooler (10 Gal)
Taste Rating(out of 50): 35.0 Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.0
Taste Notes:

Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU
12.00 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 87.3 %
1.00 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) Grain 7.3 %
0.75 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L (120.0 SRM) Grain 5.5 %
3.00 oz Cascade [5.50%] (60 min) Hops 52.9 IBU
2.00 oz Cascade [5.50%] (20 min) Hops 21.4 IBU
2.00 oz Cascade [5.50%] (Dry Hop 3 days) Hops -



Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.074 SG
Measured Original Gravity: 1.010 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.019 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.005 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 7.2 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 0.6 %
Bitterness: 74.3 IBU Calories: 43 cal/pint
Est Color: 15.7 SRM Color: Color


Mash Profile

Mash Name: My Mash Total Grain Weight: 13.75 lb
Sparge Water: 8.31 gal Grain Temperature: 72.0 F
Sparge Temperature: 168.0 F TunTemperature: 72.0 F
Adjust Temp for Equipment: FALSE Mash PH: 5.4 PH

 

[wilfonzo]

E-mail Wayne. He's pretty good about sharing info with homebrewers.

I know the malts they use are primarily Rahr for domestic base, with some Weyermann and Fawcett (and I think Briess, I don't remember) for other grains. They use the Thames Valley ale strain to ferment.

Thanks, I'll give that a try too.

 

[flyingfinbar]

I've heard that Tocobaga somehow has tobacco involved in the process somewhere along the way. I'm aware that consumption of tobacco can be dangerous, but I swear I remember hearing someone mentioning that this particular beer has tobacco in some form in the process.

 

[moistcarl]

Any results yet? Love this beer and can't buy it in CT.

 

[joetownhound]

Thanks, I'll give that a try too.

could it be that this is the one that is aged on Spanish ceder? Don't know myself just a question.

 

[andrewp]

This is not brewed with tobacco or Spanish cedar. I would recommend a complex hop schedule (ie jai lai) and the definite use of simcoe. This beer is juicy with hop flavor! One of my favorites but we just moved from Tampa to NY and I haven't seen it yet.

 

[BlakeL]

This is what I was given via email from Wayne, their brewer.

"We use 2-row, C60L, Dark Chocolate, Vienna and Munich.

We hop it with Vanguard, Amarillo, Centennial, Willamette, Pacifica, Cascade and Citra.

OG is 18 plato. About 65 IBUs."

 

[ArcaneXor]

I haven't been to the brewery in a while, but I seem to remember that they use Rahr 2Row, and Weyermann for the "German-style" malts. Crystal and Dark Chocolate may be Briess (their Choc 420L, not the regular 350).

 

[wilfonzo]

This is what I was given via email from Wayne, their brewer.

"We use 2-row, C60L, Dark Chocolate, Vienna and Munich.

We hop it with Vanguard, Amarillo, Centennial, Willamette, Pacifica, Cascade and Citra.

OG is 18 plato. About 65 IBUs."

that's a crazy hop schedule, I'm going to have to reformulate and give it another go.

The original recipe I posted was great, but it wasn't Tocobaga.

 

[TampaTony]

Here is my effort at a clone based on Wayne's information. I am going to brew in 2 weeks.

Tocabaga Clone
American IPA
Type: All Grain Date: 11/6/2012
Batch Size (fermenter): 6.08 gal Brewer: Tony
Boil Size: 9.79 gal Asst Brewer:
Boil Time: 90 min Equipment: Pot (18.5 Gal/70 L) and Cooler (9.5 Gal/40 L) - All Grain
End of Boil Volume 7.10 gal Brewhouse Efficiency: 68.00 %
Final Bottling Volume: 6.03 gal Est Mash Efficiency 76.4 %
Fermentation: Ale, Single Stage Taste Rating(out of 50): 30.0
Taste Notes:
Ingredients


Ingredients
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
15 lbs 8.0 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 81.8 %
1 lbs 4.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 2 6.6 %
1 lbs Munich Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 3 5.3 %
1 lbs Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM) Grain 4 5.3 %
3.2 oz Chocolate Malt (450.0 SRM) Grain 5 1.1 %
0.50 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - First Wort 90.0 min Hop 6 13.5 IBUs
0.50 oz Centennial [10.00 %] - First Wort 90.0 min Hop 7 14.8 IBUs
0.50 oz Centennial [10.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 8 13.5 IBUs
0.50 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Boil 45.0 min Hop 9 10.5 IBUs
0.50 oz Pacifica [5.50 %] - Boil 30.0 min Hop 10 5.7 IBUs
0.50 oz Vanguard [5.50 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 11 4.5 IBUs
0.50 oz Willamette [5.50 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 12 2.7 IBUs
0.50 oz Vanguard [5.50 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 13 1.5 IBUs
0.50 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 14 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 15 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Pacifica [5.50 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 16 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Willamette [5.50 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 17 0.0 IBUs
1.0 pkg American Ale (Wyeast Labs #1056) [124.21 ml] Yeast 18 -
0.50 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 19 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 20 0.0 IBUs


Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.076 SG Measured Original Gravity: 1.046 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.020 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.010 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 7.4 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 4.7 %
Bitterness: 66.5 IBUs Calories: 151.6 kcal/12oz
Est Color: 15.6 SRM
Mash Profile

Mash Name: Single Infusion, Full Body, Batch Sparge Total Grain Weight: 18 lbs 15.2 oz
Sparge Water: 6.15 gal Grain Temperature: 72.0 F
Sparge Temperature: 168.0 F Tun Temperature: 72.0 F
Adjust Temp for Equipment: FALSE Mash PH: 5.20

Mash Steps
Name Description Step Temperature Step Time
Mash In Add 26.89 qt of water at 166.8 F 156.0 F 45 min


Sparge Step: Batch sparge with 3 steps (Drain mash tun, , 3.53gal, 3.53gal) of 168.0 F water
Mash Notes: Simple single infusion mash for use with most modern well modified grains (about 95% of the time).
Carbonation and Storage

Carbonation Type: Keg Volumes of CO2: 2.3
Pressure/Weight: 12.54 PSI Carbonation Used: Keg with 12.54 PSI
Keg/Bottling Temperature: 45.0 F Age for: 30.00 days
Fermentation: Ale, Single Stage Storage Temperature: 65.0 F
Notes

 

[wilfonzo]

That looks awesome cant wait to hear how it turns out

 

[edecambra]

This beer definitely uses mostly Simcoe in the dry hop, very distinct. If you get a close malt bill I'd be interested to, as this is IMO their best year rounder, a damn fine beer.

 

[TampaTony]

This beer definitely uses mostly Simcoe in the dry hop, very distinct. If you get a close malt bill I'd be interested to, as this is IMO their best year rounder, a damn fine beer.

According to Wayne the head brewer at CC it doesn't use Simcoe.

 

[edecambra]

Yeah, I saw that post after I wrote this... you'd think I was new at this. I could swear every time I drink that all I get is Simcoe on the aroma, you know how distinct it smells, pine citrus with that "catty" ness to it. But i've been wrong before.

 

[edecambra]

Also in an old bn podcast, Wayne said they use thames valley yeast as a house strain. I used it in his jai alai clone and it was spot on

 

[Tamarlane]

I would've SWORE they dry hopped it with simcoe - I don't like simcoe and I was turned off by this one for that reason (as well as the Jai Alai - I love the white oak aged version but am not a fan of the original)- I am very curious as to what the aroma hops are now. I am not too familiar with citra - is that one anything like simcoe?

 

[edecambra]

That's what I'm saying! and no citra is not at all like simcoe

 

[TampaTony]

Also in an old bn podcast, Wayne said they use thames valley yeast as a house strain. I used it in his jai alai clone and it was spot on

Good info on the yeast...thanks! I emailed Wayne to see if the hop schedule is accurate...will post changes if he replies.

 

[TampaTony]

After corresponding with the head brewer Wayne Wambles he directed me to Tim Ogden an associate brewer who designed the recipe. Tim said it was "actually impressive how close this recipe is" :rockin:, but didn't give any further details on what the hop schedule or malt percentages are.

I brewed it 3 weeks ago and it is still dry hopping so I haven't tried it, but I can't wait. It was my first time using the Thames Valley yeast and I did have a problem with a stuck fermentation. I think this was due to fermenting at too low of a temp and my starter wasn't quite large enough. I had it at 65 degrees and it got down to 1.030 after 5 days and it stayed steady. I increased the temperature up to 72 degrees and it dropped to 1.020 which is where I racked into secondary and dry hopped. Should finish at 1.012 according to Beersmith. I will post on how it tastes when it is complete in a few weeks.

Recipe: Toke -A- Bong Ale
Brewer: Tony
Style: American IPA
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (30.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 12.05 gal
Post Boil Volume: 10.92 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 10.00 gal
Bottling Volume: 10.04 gal
Estimated OG: 1.074 SG
Estimated Color: 17.6 SRM
Estimated IBU: 72.8 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 73.5 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
2.00 tbsp PH 5.2 Stabilizer (Mash 60.0 mins) Water Agent 1 -
22 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 2 75.2 %
3 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 3 10.3 %
2 lbs Munich Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 4 6.8 %
2 lbs Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM) Grain 5 6.8 %
4.0 oz Chocolate Malt (450.0 SRM) Grain 6 0.9 %
1.00 oz Amarillo [8.50 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 7 13.5 IBUs
1.00 oz Centennial [10.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 8 15.9 IBUs
1.00 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 9 19.1 IBUs
2.00 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 mins) Fining 10 -
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 11 4.3 IBUs
1.00 oz Vanguard [5.50 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 12 4.3 IBUs
1.00 oz Willamette [5.50 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 13 4.3 IBUs
1.00 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 14 6.9 IBUs
1.00 oz Amarillo [8.50 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 15 2.7 IBUs
1.00 oz Pacifica [5.50 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 16 1.7 IBUs
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Aroma Steep 20.0 min Hop 17 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Centennial [10.00 %] - Aroma Steep 20.0 Hop 18 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Aroma Steep 20.0 min Hop 19 0.0 IBUs
1.0 pkg(3 Ltr Starter)Thames Valley Ale (Wyeast Labs #1275) Yeast 20
1.00 oz Amarillo [8.50 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 21 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 22 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 23 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Willamette [5.50 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 24 0.0 IBUs


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Full Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 29 lbs 4.0 oz
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Mash In Add 36.56 qt of water at 168.2 F 156.0 F 45 min

Sparge: Batch sparge with 2 steps (0.39gal, 6.03gal) of 168.0 F water
Notes:
------


Created with BeerSmith 2 - http://www.beersmith.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[Tamarlane]

It was my first time using the Thames Valley yeast and I did have a problem with a stuck fermentation. I think this was due to fermenting at too low of a temp and my starter wasn't quite large enough. I had it at 65 degrees and it got down to 1.030 after 5 days and it stayed steady. I increased the temperature up to 72 degrees and it dropped to 1.020 which is where I racked into secondary and dry hopped.

I use Thames Valley a lot - its my go-to ale yeast - and never had a stuck fermentation but i usually let it rise up to the 70s after three days of fermentation or so

 

[edecambra]

I have used it a good many times too and have found it to be a good attenuators too. I most always ferment at 65 and let it rise to 70 after a week to finish the job.

Let us know how it tastes!

 

[Tom_FL]

I use Thames Valley a lot - its my go-to ale yeast - and never had a stuck fermentation but i usually let it rise up to the 70s after three days of fermentation or so

Actually I heard from a reliable source that Cigar City stopped using Thames Valley as their main yeast earlier this year due to flocculation issues and switched to 002 (but able coax out attenuation close to 80% by tweaking things.

 

[Tamarlane]

Actually I heard from a reliable source that Cigar City stopped using Thames Valley as their main yeast earlier this year due to flocculation issues and switched to 002 (but able coax out attenuation close to 80% by tweaking things.

Any word on what they are using for their lagers and belgians/saisons? I know their Guava Grove used St Somewhere's house yeast but I tried the Florida Cracker and swear it tasted like Ardennes

 

[kjjohns5]

Tocabaga is Tim Ogden's recipe. He's one of the brewers at CCB. It's dry hopped only with Citra, btw. Also, they switched their yeast from 1275 to London ESB 1968, and they no longer filter it because it flocks nicely (002 is the same thing as 1968). Their saison yeast is 3711 and they actually use it for the Florida Cracker, too. They used 3787 once for a belgian dark strong but then they dumped it for some reason.