Buying honey
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Yes, you can buy honey anywhere. And any kind of honey you want. Each kind of honey has different flavors. Some are lighter in flavor, some have more floral notes, and some are a little fruity. It all depends on what you want your final product to be like. I have bought honey from the grocery store and I have also bought it from walmart. Walmart sells it in larger containers than the grocery stores usually.
SpentGrains
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Just double check the label says it's all honey- they actually have "honey flavored syrup" in a little bear shaped bottles at the dollar stores. 
fatbloke
Well-Known Member
No, larger places like Walmart etc, will invariably buy it in to a price. It will have likely been processed and blended to hell and back.
You can use it of course, but don't expect a good mead from the honey flavour. If the batch being made has other ingredients that are going to be the likely focus of the flavour, then fine use the cheaper stuff from wherever.
If you're aiming to make a good quality traditional where the honey is going to be the focus of the flavour, then look for a good supplier. Maybe even a local beekeeper......
Your meads will only be as good as the honey.........
You can use it of course, but don't expect a good mead from the honey flavour. If the batch being made has other ingredients that are going to be the likely focus of the flavour, then fine use the cheaper stuff from wherever.
If you're aiming to make a good quality traditional where the honey is going to be the focus of the flavour, then look for a good supplier. Maybe even a local beekeeper......
Your meads will only be as good as the honey.........
from American Bee Journal:
Make Sure You Don't Buy
Illegal Honey from China
Washington, D.C. – November 14, 2013 – A new search function on www.TrueSourceHoney.com allows U.S. shoppers to be sure that they’re not mistakenly buying honey that has been illegally shipped from China. In one easy step they can help ensure the safety and quality of their honey, while also supporting U.S. honey producers and beekeepers. In addition, retailers and manufacturers are able to trace their product back to the hive.
By going to www.TrueSourceHoney.com and clicking on the starburst at the top of the page, consumers can enter the UPC code on the back of their packaged honey to see if it is True Source Certified™.
Millions of pounds of illegally sourced honey may continue to enter the United States, despite continuing federal crack-down efforts. True Source CertificationTM helps ensure honey’s safety and quality because it traces the source of that honey from hive to table. The program has been applauded by honey industry leaders, including the American Honey Producers Association and the American Beekeeping Federation.
“The True Source Certified logo tells you that the honey you’re buying was ethically and legally sourced,” says True Source Honey Executive Director Gordon Marks. “If you don’t see the logo, ask your retailer or honey company to join the program. And make sure that your favorite foods with honey – from breakfast cereals to snacks – are made by a manufacturer that purchases honey from a True Source Certified honey company.”
Earlier this year, two of the nation’s largest honey suppliers admitted to buying illegally imported Chinese honey, including some that was adulterated with unauthorized antibiotics.
About one-third of honey sold in North America today is now True Source Certified. Many large grocery retailers and club stores only use certified honey for store brands, including Costco (Kirkland Signature) and Target (Market Pantry and Simply Balanced).
The U.S. imports more than 60% of the honey it needs from other countries. Most is from high-quality, legal sources. But some honey brokers and importers illegally circumvent tariffs and quality controls, selling honey to U.S. companies that is of questionable origin. This threatens the U.S. honey industry by undercutting fair market prices and damaging honey's reputation for quality and safety.
True Source Honey, LLC is an effort by a number of honey companies and importers to protect consumers and customers from illegally sourced honey; and to highlight and support legal, transparent and ethical sourcing. The initiative seeks to help maintain the reputation of honey as a high-quality, highly valued food and further sustain the U.S. honey sector. Visit www.TrueSourceHoney.com.
Make Sure You Don't Buy
Illegal Honey from China
Check Your Honey with a New Look-Up Tool on www.TrueSourceHoney.com
Washington, D.C. – November 14, 2013 – A new search function on www.TrueSourceHoney.com allows U.S. shoppers to be sure that they’re not mistakenly buying honey that has been illegally shipped from China. In one easy step they can help ensure the safety and quality of their honey, while also supporting U.S. honey producers and beekeepers. In addition, retailers and manufacturers are able to trace their product back to the hive.
By going to www.TrueSourceHoney.com and clicking on the starburst at the top of the page, consumers can enter the UPC code on the back of their packaged honey to see if it is True Source Certified™.
Millions of pounds of illegally sourced honey may continue to enter the United States, despite continuing federal crack-down efforts. True Source CertificationTM helps ensure honey’s safety and quality because it traces the source of that honey from hive to table. The program has been applauded by honey industry leaders, including the American Honey Producers Association and the American Beekeeping Federation.
“The True Source Certified logo tells you that the honey you’re buying was ethically and legally sourced,” says True Source Honey Executive Director Gordon Marks. “If you don’t see the logo, ask your retailer or honey company to join the program. And make sure that your favorite foods with honey – from breakfast cereals to snacks – are made by a manufacturer that purchases honey from a True Source Certified honey company.”
Earlier this year, two of the nation’s largest honey suppliers admitted to buying illegally imported Chinese honey, including some that was adulterated with unauthorized antibiotics.
About one-third of honey sold in North America today is now True Source Certified. Many large grocery retailers and club stores only use certified honey for store brands, including Costco (Kirkland Signature) and Target (Market Pantry and Simply Balanced).
The U.S. imports more than 60% of the honey it needs from other countries. Most is from high-quality, legal sources. But some honey brokers and importers illegally circumvent tariffs and quality controls, selling honey to U.S. companies that is of questionable origin. This threatens the U.S. honey industry by undercutting fair market prices and damaging honey's reputation for quality and safety.
True Source Honey, LLC is an effort by a number of honey companies and importers to protect consumers and customers from illegally sourced honey; and to highlight and support legal, transparent and ethical sourcing. The initiative seeks to help maintain the reputation of honey as a high-quality, highly valued food and further sustain the U.S. honey sector. Visit www.TrueSourceHoney.com.
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fatbloke
Well-Known Member
Nice link/post Jack. I wish there was something as helpful as that for here......
fuelish
Well-Known Member
agree with fatbloke.....I use affordable clover honey in 6 lb jugs, iirc, for many of my meads, as most of 'em have a whole LOT of something else going in them....when I occasionally make a mild plain mead, I'll spring big $$$ for locally grown honey - it's worth it, if honey is going to be THE flavor profile
gratus fermentatio
Well-Known Member
There will always be some honey varieties that most people think are better than others. I'll take an orange blossom varietal over a "wildflower" honey anytime. The varietals are going to be better than "wildflower" (read: mystery) honey about 99% of the time.
That being said, there are some rather odd varietals out there: Peppermint, sage, radish, butterbean, manuka, etc...
There are some that are spicy, some that are more caramel-like, some are more earthy, I've heard the flavour of buckwheat honey described as a "barnyard" flavour; I thought it tasted like molasses & hay.
It's all honey, it'll all make mead. Some honeys are more desired than others & some honeys will make better mead than others; it's really up to you as to what you make & how good your end product will be. I tend to save generic honey like clover for melomels & use the varietals in mead. I like to let the varietals shine through on their own merits, plain old clover or alfalfa needs some help to shine.
Regards, GF.
Dominic1920
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Is there a way to test if cheap honey has been adultered? I've heard that pure honey won't dissolve in water as easily as honey with added sugars or water. I've noticed alot of variation in different honey and even variations among the same brands. I've even found one local honey that says "may contain pesticides"! How the heck do bees get fed pesticides?
I let the honey sit and it crystallizes. That tells me the honey is closer to raw honey which is what is on the label.
Farmers use pesticides. Homeowners use a lot more pesticides. Stores that sell plants use pesticides. Bees go collect nectar from flowers that have been sprayed and may carry it back to the hive. This is why bees are dying. However, you can't control where the bee goes and don't really know what they got into so it "may" contain but the sell does not know. Try not to freak out, but most thing you eat has been exposed to pesticides.
Farmers use pesticides. Homeowners use a lot more pesticides. Stores that sell plants use pesticides. Bees go collect nectar from flowers that have been sprayed and may carry it back to the hive. This is why bees are dying. However, you can't control where the bee goes and don't really know what they got into so it "may" contain but the sell does not know. Try not to freak out, but most thing you eat has been exposed to pesticides.
gratus fermentatio
Well-Known Member
Have you looked at the True Source website?
http://www.truesourcehoney.com/true-source-certified/
They seem to be more about verification & tracking, making sure that you get unadulterated honey, IE: no added sugars or fillers. That the orange blossom honey you buy is actually orange blossom honey & nothing else & a way to track it back to the source for verification.
As far as the pollen content of a particular honey, it's all going to have SOME pollen in it, but raw or unfiltered honey will have more in it than filtered honey will. Even so, the amount of pollen in the honey will be pretty low, minuscule really. Bees usually keep the pollen they gather & store separate from the honey.
If by "not even honey" you mean over filtered with a loss of flavour, those would most likely be the huge honey companies that heat, filter & blend various honeys into a homogeneous, somewhat bland (compared to most single source varietals) product.
Have a look here:
http://www.honey.com/honey-at-home/learn-about-honey/
You might be overthinking this honey thing. I've made meads & melomels with generic wildflower honey & varietal honey; I've had successes & failures with both, but none of those failures was due to the honey. You'll get mead from generic, filtered, store-bought honey; AND you'll get mead from certified organic, raw, unfitered, single source varietal honey. If you buy from a reputable source, you will most likely get good honey. When combined with a good price, good recipes & good fermentation practices, you'll get awesome mead.
Hope this info answered your questions, cuz that's all I got.
Regards, GF.
NZ-beekeeper
Well-Known Member
I am a beekeeper in New Zealand. ***Generally*** the honey here is of very high quality (yes, dodgy imports from China and Iran have made it even to here, and local "pirates" being unscrupulous). A lot of negative propaganda is portrayed of American honey (I'm talking Walmart etc.). For one thing, the method of farming in USA is not ideal. I'm not trying to bag American industry, but the facts speak for themselves. Let's face it, trucking bees all over the country following different crops for pollination stresses the poor insects out. Pesticides even more so, and I'd say if not 100% of large commercial pollination beekeepers feed their bees with corn or cane sugar (cane sugar or "invert syrup" gets used extensively in commercial production, and has caused a storm of controversy lately in our unique Manuka honey industry, with C4 sugar residues, whatever they are!)
Try to find a local beekeepers' club/association. Hell, become a member! As a beekeeper myself, I can say any hobbyist beekeeper worth their salt who is beekeeping for the main purpose of producing honey (many do it primarily for other reasons) will have more than they know what to do with, and may be prepared to flick it off cheaply. Better still, become a beekeeper. Even a hive 3km down the road from my place (less than 2 miles), the honey at that site produces vastly different flavoured and coloured honey than the 4 hives at my place. As a beekeeper, you can choose where to keep your bees (especially if your friends don't mind having a hive at their place), and depending on what is in flower in your area, you can get quite different tones at different times of the year.
By all means if money is the most important factor, got to Walmart, but I think if you shop around your local scene, you may find top quality bulk honey at comparatively low prices. If nothing else, try to support your local guys. Honey from your own back yard would be my go-to for top quality, raw bulk honey at an affordable price, failing that, again, look to your local beekeeping fraternity. It is a hobby that is becoming a bigger and stronger movement every year (my local club, the Auckland Beekeepers' Club went from less than 300 members 3 years ago to almost 500 this year). I promise you, you won't be looked at weirdly for mentioning you keep bees, in most circles anyway!
EDIT:
One thing I forgot to mention in that runny honey from a bottle has been heated past 60˚C, which destroys the enzymes and chemically alters the sugars.
Also, many filtered honeys CONTAINS NO POLLEN. Honestly, what is the point? You might as well be making "mead" out of HFCS. Don't do it.
Try to find a local beekeepers' club/association. Hell, become a member! As a beekeeper myself, I can say any hobbyist beekeeper worth their salt who is beekeeping for the main purpose of producing honey (many do it primarily for other reasons) will have more than they know what to do with, and may be prepared to flick it off cheaply. Better still, become a beekeeper. Even a hive 3km down the road from my place (less than 2 miles), the honey at that site produces vastly different flavoured and coloured honey than the 4 hives at my place. As a beekeeper, you can choose where to keep your bees (especially if your friends don't mind having a hive at their place), and depending on what is in flower in your area, you can get quite different tones at different times of the year.
By all means if money is the most important factor, got to Walmart, but I think if you shop around your local scene, you may find top quality bulk honey at comparatively low prices. If nothing else, try to support your local guys. Honey from your own back yard would be my go-to for top quality, raw bulk honey at an affordable price, failing that, again, look to your local beekeeping fraternity. It is a hobby that is becoming a bigger and stronger movement every year (my local club, the Auckland Beekeepers' Club went from less than 300 members 3 years ago to almost 500 this year). I promise you, you won't be looked at weirdly for mentioning you keep bees, in most circles anyway!
EDIT:
One thing I forgot to mention in that runny honey from a bottle has been heated past 60˚C, which destroys the enzymes and chemically alters the sugars.
Also, many filtered honeys CONTAINS NO POLLEN. Honestly, what is the point? You might as well be making "mead" out of HFCS. Don't do it.
madscientist451
Well-Known Member
Avoid store bought honey. Its probably over processed.
If you need a 5 gallon bucket, go too google and search for a big supplier. I pay a little more and buy quarts of honey from local suppliers for $11-12. That's about $4/lb. The money is helping a small bee keeper, the honey is locally produced. I can get a 60lb bucket for $134 or about $2.20 a lb, but I have to drive a long way to pick it up or pay shipping and who knows where it comes from?
Check your yellow pages, ask at local orchards and farmers markets, there's a good chance someone has some local honey in your area.
If you need a 5 gallon bucket, go too google and search for a big supplier. I pay a little more and buy quarts of honey from local suppliers for $11-12. That's about $4/lb. The money is helping a small bee keeper, the honey is locally produced. I can get a 60lb bucket for $134 or about $2.20 a lb, but I have to drive a long way to pick it up or pay shipping and who knows where it comes from?
Check your yellow pages, ask at local orchards and farmers markets, there's a good chance someone has some local honey in your area.
Dominic1920
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NZ-beekeeper, I know that the beekeepers around here rent their hives out for pollinating crops, but is the honey just a side business? I heard that some of the crops don't produce a lot of honey, like alfalfa, and that the beekeepers have to supplemental feed their hives. Is that the feeding of invert syrup you mentioned? Does the feeding of this syrup produce inferior honey, or is this supplemental feeding during "off" season times just to keep the bees from starving since if its only done when theres not enough natural nectar available then do the bees not produce honey from this supplemental feeding or what? I also was wondering about pesticide concentrations in honey, I read that the neonicotinoid insecticides that are in the news lately are showing up in the pollen as apposed to the honey itself, so wouldn't honey thats been filtered of most of its pollen be safer?
NZ-beekeeper
Well-Known Member
For many big pollination beekeepers, honey production is an annoying inconvenience, true. Your smaller hobbyists will generally be trying to squeeze enough honey out to make it worthwhile. You're spot on with the feeding of invert syrup, and this can be a problem because it is turned into 'honey' by the bees, but only for their own feed, not ours. This leads (I think!) to C4 sugar contamination (NOT toxic or anything, just not floral honey). As for neonics, filtering honey will do nothing. You see, neonics are systemic, meaning the entire plant, every part of it, including what they are selling as food, the fruit, leaves, nectar, pollen, seeds, you name it, is contaminated. The FDA will tell you these are chemicals are "safe". Beekeepers and organic followers will tell you otherwise! I will let you make your own judgement. Actually, honey collected from built-up areas is *probably* cleaner than that from conventional farms (You either get the pesticides or the diesel fumes. Seeing as diesel fumes aren't systemic, I'd prefer them
Dominic1920
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For many big pollination beekeepers, honey production is an annoying inconvenience, true. Your smaller hobbyists will generally be trying to squeeze enough honey out to make it worthwhile. You're spot on with the feeding of invert syrup, and this can be a problem because it is turned into 'honey' by the bees, but only for their own feed, not ours. This leads (I think!) to C4 sugar contamination (NOT toxic or anything, just not floral honey). As for neonics, filtering honey will do nothing. You see, neonics are systemic, meaning the entire plant, every part of it, including what they are selling as food, the fruit, leaves, nectar, pollen, seeds, you name it, is contaminated. The FDA will tell you these are chemicals are "safe". Beekeepers and organic followers will tell you otherwise! I will let you make your own judgement. Actually, honey collected from built-up areas is *probably* cleaner than that from conventional farms (You either get the pesticides or the diesel fumes. Seeing as diesel fumes aren't systemic, I'd prefer them
Honey labels here in the US are inconsistent and confusing to say the least. I've seen the terms, "raw", "unfiltered", unpasteurized, pasteurized, gently filtered, etc. Does New Zealand have a consistent term for different treatments of honey? I assume "raw" means the same thing as "unpasteurized" here, how about there?
NZ-beekeeper
Well-Known Member
It's a complex issue, and here in NZ, there is not that much consistency, but I think as with many other things when you compare NZ products to USA's is that USA products generally have more of both extremes: USA's best is often better than NZ's best products (not always) and USA's worst is often worse than NZ's worst (again, not always). The terms are confusing, but your "raw" "unfiltered" honey is the best you will be able to get. The "may contain pesticides" is an interesting one. I would think that 99% at least of American honey would DEFINITELY contain pesticides, the figure would be similar for honey here in NZ, simply because of the ubiquity of Varroa mites, and the fact that to kill them, beekeepers are pretty much bound to the chemical companies' chemical cocktails. Combine that with a disease called American Foulbrood (AFB), the problems get worse. In USA, beekeepers are allowed to use antibiotics to "treat" this bacterial infection. Here in NZ, if AFB (which is present) is found in any hive, you need to tell the authorities, and and you need to burn all infected hives and it's a good idea to burn some associated equipment (contaminated gloves, etc.). The antibiotics and varroacides will manifest themselves as pesticide residues in most honey, except for certified organic, but even there, bees will pick up agrichemicals sprayed on crops and bring them into the hive with pollen and nectar. Even honey from my own backyard hives contains varroacide residues.
"Raw" is unheated in any way.
"Unfiltered" is a difficult one, because all honey has been passed through screens to remove wax bits, dead bee parts, etc. Maybe there is a definition as to how fine the mesh is, but normally "filtered" honey will have had at least some of the pollen removed.
I'm not sure if "raw" and "unpasteurised" mean the same thing. By definition, raw has not been pasteurised, but not necessarily the reverse is true. Personally, I don't think honey needs pasteurisation because for the same reason as our yeast doesn't much like honey, neither do pathogens: honey has a SG that is too high, which sucks moisture out of microbes' cells. The pH is too low, and all honey contains H2O2 (hydrogen peroxide) which is a potent antimicrobial. The level of H2O2 increases with age.
Pasteurisation is the process of heating then rapidly cooling in a very strict manner. Non raw honey (normally liquid honey) has simply been heated to over 60˚C which stops crystal growth. I don't know why this happens, but once it has been heated past 60 it will remain liquid (i.e. not "raw"). I don't think the process is the same as pasteurisation. I could be wrong.
The bottom line is, if you're worried about quality, look for those terms "raw", "unfiltered", "unprocessed", "unpasteurised", etc. and avoid those which have been adulterated. they will often be liquid, the ingredients may not be 100% honey, and the finely filtered ones may not even contain pollen. I'm sure the yeasties can't tell the difference. Perhaps you can in your final product!
:fro:
NZ-beekeeper
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That said, I think you are lucky to have this "true source" thing. I don't think that is here in NZ. [As far as I am aware] we just rely on the "honesty" (or lack thereof) of our local industry beekeepers. There have definitely been cases, especially in the incredibly lucrative manuka honey industry, where the label says something that is different than the product in the jar. Cheating. There have also been stories in the news of widespread thefts, vandalism, and other acts of piracy in the areas of bush where manuka grows wild, in the far north of our country.
Dominic1920
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Thanks NZ-beekeep, I count myself privileged to have your expertise available. I'm ordering an Italian queen for the spring. Hopefully I still have time to learn more from you. Thanks
NZ-beekeeper
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I take it you're in the southern hemisphere? Some of those in the colder northern States or deep south of NZ/Sth America may find the "Carniolan" strain of honeybee better. They are originally from Eastern Europe (Hungary? Czech?) and can take the cold. You have to keep a closer eye during swarming season though!
Dominic1920
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Yes, I live in the American Sonoran desert, the temperatures here right now are as high as 44 degrees Celsius. I was recommended to get the Italian strain due to the presence of Africanized Honey Bee strains here. Our local beekeeper said he has many hives of AHB, and actually prefers them since they are superior honey producers to the European strains, but since I'm starting out and am not used to working with AHB, I should get an Italian hive.
