Building a wort chiller

[richlong8020]

I'm making a keggle and so I also want to make a wort chiller.

Here's the plan

Out from the spigot on the keggle, into the wort chiller which is 50' of 5/8" OD copper tubbing coiled inside of a ice chest with water and ice. Then to another spigot which I will use to fill my buckets.

My question is will 50' drop 10 gal of boiling wort to below 80 so I can pitch my yeast? Also do you think 50' is too much? I think 25' is too little.

Thx for the advice always.

 

[brewmcq]

You're going to get a lot of advice on thermodynamics and heat exchange. You may also get advice on how to use the "search" function.

The best thing you can do is run some experiments.. boil up some water and run it through and see what happens... you will most likely want to shoot for temps much lower than 80F though.

My recommendation... add rock salt to your ice/water combination, just like you were making ice cream.

Good luck.

 

[brewcephus]

I brewed up to batches this weekend and have a 25 foot immersion chiller. Living in south MS tap water usually comes out a little warm so here's how I remedy that situation.

Get yourself an ice chest. (Sounds like you already have this taken care of)
Fill it to the tip top with Ice.
When the time has come to start chilling, break out a water pump and stick in the ice chest, then fill said ice chest with water.
Hook the water pump to the chiller and run the pump until the water turn cool, then stick the return valve into the ice chest and turn off the water hose.

I was able to take my wort from boiling to below 60* in about 20 mins.

 

[BBL_Brewer]

I've done a few experiments and I think you'll be better off pumping ice water through an immersion chiller (like brewcephus does) than to stick the chiller in an ice batch and run the wort through it. Plus it will be easier to clean this way. Just do a couple test runs with boiling water and see what method works the best for you.

 

[Nightshade]

Asw Brew and BBL said it would be a better control factor if you used it as an immersion chiller rather than a pass through.

50' of chiller in ice and water will have you easily below ale temps and possibly even below lagering temps before you know it. Using it as an IC you will be able to monitor the temperature of the wort closer and shut it down before you get below your target temp which is easier than raising the temp back up of a wort that is too cold to pitch.

 

[richlong8020]

So I'm seeing that 50' may be too long. Should I stick with a 25' coil instead. My concern is that a wort chiller inside a full keg may not be effective. Rather than pumping ice water into a coil I can do one flow through the ice chest and be done. I really dont want to be below temp when I pitch yeast. That would be bad.

 

[Nightshade]

So I'm seeing that 50' may be too long. Should I stick with a 25' coil instead. My concern is that a wort chiller inside a full keg may not be effective. Rather than pumping ice water into a coil I can do one flow through the ice chest and be done. I really dont want to be below temp when I pitch yeast. That would be bad.

Most effective use of it except in extreme cases will be as an IC instead of a pass through. As I said the reason being that you can monitor the drop in your worts temperature and stop the cooling when you hit target.

As a pass through you may miss your target altogether before you are aware especially if you are attempting a single pass setup. This may happen at 25' for all we know as there are quite a few variables that can't be accounted for.

 

[richlong8020]

Ok so why is it bad to be too cold to pitch the yeast. The temp will rise eventually right. I guess I'm thinking she the temp comes up the fermentation process will begin. Are there any other negative effects I need to consider.

 

[hoppedup75]

Rich,
A few other things to think of with your setup,
1: I suspect that your tubing for your coil is 5/8th? if so this will slow the flow from keggle to bucket plus if not using hi temp tubing you risk blow outs from melting the hose before you ever get to the coil.
2: If using gravity and not a pump to force flow the slower flow and cause cold break to clog your coil.
3: You have a high sugar liquid going from boiling to ice cold and risk sticking sugars to the inside of 50" of coil. (Thats going to be a PITA to insure it's clean between brews).

Best bet is to try first what BBL and brewcephus suggest and add a 25' pre chill coil in a sulution of 0* salted water. If not happy with the results then look at what you came up with and test with water. You wont have the same vescosity but you will find the errors non the less.

Hope this helps.

 

[brewmcq]

I really dont want to be below temp when I pitch yeast. That would be bad.

If you pitch at below temps, all you do is make the yeasties dormant.. once everything warms up, they'll wake up and start working. If you pitch at a temperature that's too high (like 80F), you certainly run the risk of killing off yeasties and/or getting that lovely rotten banana flavor.

Been there, done that.

Rich,
A few other things to think of with your setup,
1: I suspect that your tubing for your coil is 5/8th? if so this will slow the flow from keggle to bucket plus if not using hi temp tubing you risk blow outs from melting the hose before you ever get to the coil.
2: If using gravity and not a pump to force flow the slower flow and cause cold break to clog your coil.
3: You have a high sugar liquid going from boiling to ice cold and risk sticking sugars to the inside of 50" of coil. (Thats going to be a PITA to insure it's clean between brews).

Best bet is to try first what BBL and brewcephus suggest and add a 25' pre chill coil in a sulution of 0* salted water. If not happy with the results then look at what you came up with and test with water. You wont have the same vescosity but you will find the errors non the less.

Hope this helps.

I'm not being disrespectful, but what would be the difference between using the OP's original cooler idea and using a CFC or a plate chiller in regards to cold break? I've used a CFC for years (gravity fed with a 3/8" length of copper tubing inside a garden hose) with no "viscosity" issues, and with no "sticky sugar" issues... I like my CFC.. it does a good job, but my main concern with it is that if my soldering job decides to leak, there's more water pressure that wort pressure and I'm petrified of contaminating batches...

I really like the theory behind the OP's idea (one that many of us have had)... at the very least, if something springs a leak, there won't be any water contamination in the cooled wort.

If he puts a valve at the end of the system (on the outlet of the cooler chiller), he will have amazing control over the flow... to the point where maybe even 25' will be plenty of tubing.. which is why I recommend that he experiment with it.

 

[hoppedup75]

I'm not being disrespectful, but what would be the difference between using the OP's original cooler idea and using a CFC or a plate chiller in regards to cold break? I've used a CFC for years (gravity fed with a 3/8" length of copper tubing inside a garden hose) with no "viscosity" issues, and with no "sticky sugar" issues... I like my CFC.. it does a good job, but my main concern with it is that if my soldering job decides to leak, there's more water pressure that wort pressure and I'm petrified of contaminating batches...

I really like the theory behind the OP's idea (one that many of us have had)... at the very least, if something springs a leak, there won't be any water contamination in the cooled wort.

If he puts a valve at the end of the system (on the outlet of the cooler chiller), he will have amazing control over the flow... to the point where maybe even 25' will be plenty of tubing.. which is why I recommend that he experiment with it.

Brewmcq,
Got it when I hit "Submit" on the cold break.

50' is a long ways to travel on gravity alone. 2.??psi per foot of elevation no matter the volume, so I would figure in 12psi to be on the high side of the scale. I agree on the 25' and test runs.

Sugaring will happen, it just how best to deal with it and if you want to address it. Plate chiller's get back flushed to rid hops matrial and at some point will need to be boiled and baked to refresh them.

CFC's im just not a big fan of.... It's a personal pref IMO. I know ones that love them.

Oh! Is that a !*&$# in the pic?

Btw, any friends showing up for the hop harvest this year?

OP: Find what works for you. There is a whole lot of options out there it's just finding what works best for you.

 

[BBL_Brewer]

So I'm seeing that 50' may be too long. Should I stick with a 25' coil instead. My concern is that a wort chiller inside a full keg may not be effective. Rather than pumping ice water into a coil I can do one flow through the ice chest and be done. I really dont want to be below temp when I pitch yeast. That would be bad.

I use a 100' coil of 1/2" copper to chill 30 gallon batches. Just because you have a large volume doesn't mean that an immersion will not be effective. You just need to size the chiller appropriately.

 

[richlong8020]

That's a good point. I didn't think of that.

So there is no big down side to having the wort too cold and the fermentation will start when the temp rises. Def not shooting for lager temps so I think that a 25' coil will work fine. I honestly want to try it and hope it will be successful. Gonna give it a shot and hope for the best. Will def post picks and status updates.

 

[richlong8020]

That's a good point. I didn't think of that.

So there is no big down side to having the wort too cold. Def not shooting for lager temps so I think that a 25' coil will work fine. 50' maybe a bit on the long side. I honestly want to try it and hope it will be successful. I figure if wort case scenario I turn it into a jockey box for the summer lol.

 

[stvo]

What size pumps (gpm) are you guys using???? With summer approaching I'm thinking of using this method. Thanks

 

[BreezyBrew]

I wouldn't use ice water to recalculate using a pump until the water is around 100 degrees. Anything before that and you are wasting the ice.

I have a 350 gph pond pump that pumps the water through a 3/8 in 50 ft IC. It pumps at a height of 5 ft. The return side doesn't have a whole lot of pressure. I'd probably go with 400 gph if you are having to pump up 5 ft or higher. I use this and a very large galvanized tub for an ice bath and the wort still takes 25 minutes to chill to 65. I've timed it a lot.

Lastly, you will probably only purchase one IC, so go with the 50 ft. You can't ever chill too fast, and from my experience an IC is too slow. I will be moving to a CFC with recirc soon.

 

[richlong8020]

This is kinda on a side note but does apply. I'm looking at the fittings I need for the chiller. Do you all recommend quick disconnect fittings? Is it easier to clean with or without them. Do they pose any problems especially on the hot side.

 

[BBL_Brewer]

This is kinda on a side note but does apply. I'm looking at the fittings I need for the chiller. Do you all recommend quick disconnect fittings? Is it easier to clean with or without them. Do they pose any problems especially on the hot side.

I'm not sure QD's would work well on the hot side unless they're metal. I use garden hose fittings myself.

 

[richlong8020]

Yea they are all SS. Actually the whole rig except the coil is SS. I'm liking the way this is looking after I pieced it together on www.bargainfittings.com. Nice stuff on that site. Also looking to find the cheapest location for copper coil. 3/8" or 1/2".

 

[BBL_Brewer]

try coppertubingsales

 

[richlong8020]

Good call. Nice prices too