BUGS in my grain

[cytokine]

Interesting, and a little disturbing to think that the bugs/eggs/larvae survived the malting / kilning processes.

Meh.

Also, makes you wonder. If growing and process controls were better "controlled" to an extent that the bugs were never present, what would that change about the beer. Not looking for an answer here just contemplating. I mean there has got to be something more than "protein" that the bugs contribute and that is utilized along teh way.

Hmmmmm.

Discussing the great outdoors with a friend who had never been outside the city before, I casually mentioned that I had drunk mountain stream water.

He was appalled. "I would never do that...fish f*** in there!"

I know you are not looking for an "answer" and I don't have one. However, my response to your wondering is that everything is interconnected.

In modern society we are so accustomed to thinking of the grocery store as the source of food. Kids think chickens come in plastic. They're shocked to find out that hamburger is actually made of cow. Vegetables come out of the ground. The horror!

Therefore we should not be surprised to find bugs in our grain and yeast in our beer.

It's the circle of life.

Dancing Banana.

 

[Amiaji]

People mistakenly think that the weevils got into the grain. They are actually coming out of the grain. They are in all of the grain you buy in the form of larvae. If the grain is old they will hatch. I would not shop at that store again. Not because of the bugs, but the fact that the grain is so old. The store can avoid the bugs by freezing all of the grain they receive for 3 days before putting it out for sale. This will kill all of the larvae and they will never hatch.

You can do this yourself to grain that you are not going to use for awhile.

Forrest

It doesn't matter if the container is airtight. The bugs come from the grsain. If you buy enough in bulk you will have bugs eventually.

I recommend freezing the grain for 3 days if you are not using it soon.

Forrest

+1
My LHBS always puts new shipments of grain in his freezer for 3 days before selling it. Even still except for full bags of grain I put any grain I buy into the freezer when I get it home. Never seen any bugs in my grain yet.

The employee should have handled it better though. I would talk to the owner about it.

 

[Austinhomebrew]

Forrest: Thanks for the tip re freezing. Does AHS practice this?

One of my LHBS' refuses to carry flaked corn, because they say whenever they bring in flaked corn, they have insect problems. Now, given the process to flake corn, I doubt weevils or other bugs could survive. However, I did appreciate them letting me know. Flaked corn is cheaper at the health-food store anyhow.

Let your LHBS know that in order for the bugs not to appear they need to freeze the grain for a minimum of 3 days so the larvae won't hatch. They should do that to all grain that moves slow. The bugs in the grain are not due to improper storage. The bugs didn't get in the grain, they are trying to get out.

Flaked grains always seem to hatch sooner than other grains. I am not sure why other than they are slow movers and by the time the stores receive the grain they are very close to hatching.

You want to use pre-gelatinized flakes when you are brewing. The health food store flaked corn is not pre-gelatinized.

Forrest

P.S. There are an average of 4 rat hairs to every hotdog.

 

[jds]

You want to use pre-gelatinized flakes when you are brewing. The health food store flaked corn is not pre-gelatinized.

Thanks for the tip. I cereal mash grains from the health-food stores.

 

[missing link]

Off topic slightly but interesting. The wife and I were out to dinner and she had a seafood pasta of some kind. One of the pieces of seafood was a baby crab. It was about the size of a quarter and had all of it's leg's etc on it. Didn't really freak us out to bad but dinner was free!!!

Linc

 

[conpewter]

Hmm I think I'll go home and set my grain outside or in a freezer for 3 days. Does roasted grain also hatch eventually?

 

[Sonnyjim]

I had 13.5lbs of 2 Row Canadian Malted Barley from a farm a few hours from here and while I was cracking them today I noticed a few dried up ladybugs in there. I found 2 of them, took them out but I am sure there was 1 or 2 more in there. I'm sure it won't affect the beer that much other than some more protien. I'm thinking about renaming this batch though to Ladybug Maple Ale

 

[cytokine]

It's a common problem. You just need to do a Fly Sparge.

This bears repeating.

 

[undallas]

I thought freezing produce moisture when thaw/defrost which would cause the grain to go rancid faster.

 

[baru]

Hey all,
Over this weekend I picked up 17 pounds of American Ida Pils from my local beer store in Tucson ("Brew Your Own Brew"). My wife and I were making an anniversary abbey ale.

When we bought the grain we didn't notice anything living in it. We milled it there and brought it home and began the brew that same day.

After lautering (along with vorlaufing and fly sparging) I was taking a look into the lauter tun and I noticed a clearly defined ring of brown spots around the edge of the grain bed. "How odd!" I thought, and reached in a pulled out a scoop of the spots and the grain around them.

It turns out that the brown spots were bugs. Little beetles. They don't look like weevils (they're missing the little nose-horn thing) but they are certainly beetles of some sort. A friend of mine is an entomologist and she has taken a sample of the bugs into her lab to identify them. Sorry, I don't have any photos.

There weren't so many that I'm worried about my beer; it'll just have some minute buggy essence.

The reason I post is twofold:
1) Is it common for beer stores to sell grain with bugs in it?

I called the store and spoke with one of the guys whose worked there for a while and his response was like, "oh yeah; sometimes the grain has bugs." He told me that it's not uncommon. When I asked him if I could get a refund on the grain he said No; which upset me, since I feel justified in expecting grain to be bug-free when I buy it. If it becomes infested while stored at my house; that's my problem. If it's infested at the store then that's their problem.

The response from the guy on the phone was really disappointing. I don't think they're even going to take that grain off the shelf or check the rest of their stock; they're just going to sell it.

I told the fellow that I wouldn't be buying grain there in the future. Perhaps if he'd offered me a refund or seemed at all concerned that his grain has bugs I would feel differently. Sadly, he didn't show any concern. After I complained a bit more he offered to give me 10% off my next purchase. As if that makes up for it?

2) My second question is this: Do you think the brew store handled this properly? What would you expect from your local brew store after this sort of scenario?

Thanks all! The beer is bubbling away nicely in the corner of the house.

Zack

Well, on the bright side they probably didn't eat much.
On the down side you probably shouldn't call it beer. The german purity law of 1516 says beer contains only barley, hops, and water
baru

 

[enderwig]

I thought freezing produce moisture when thaw/defrost which would cause the grain to go rancid faster.

I am arguing with myself over this very point. I just bought nearly 600 pounds of grain to last me through the year from a group buy, and am considering putting each bag in my freezer for 3 or 4 days before putting it away. The only reason I haven't yet, is I am afraid it will get wet when it thaws.
If anyone has practical experience with freezing bags of grain before long term storage, please pipe up.

 

[Parva]

I'm quite shocked at the posts here. I buy Maris Otter in 25Kg sacks and they can be around for 6 - 9 months and I've never seen this, nor have I ever had to go to the trouble of freezing the bag. If I saw any form of life in my sacks of grain I'd be calling for them to be beheaded! (The people that sold me it, not the dwellers within)

 

[conpewter]

Well, on the bright side they probably didn't eat much.
On the down side you probably shouldn't call it beer. The german purity law of 1516 says beer contains only barley, hops, and water
baru

Well crap I got all this yeast in my 'beer' darn! Rheinheitsgebot was struck down in 1987 so it is no longer a law (though some German brewers still abide by it).

 

[gudgabe]

I stumbled across this post by whatever stroke of luck.

I happen to work at Brew Your Own Brew in Tucson.

First, I want to apologize for the treatment you received, and can assure you the person who helped you no longer works there. We do understand that this can be incredibly jarring. With that said, it's true that the bugs more than likely will not affect your beer. If this happens in the future, call in again and we'll make it right.

Nature's a b&$@* sometimes ;D

Did you get a chance to talk to Gary?

Drop on in soon!

(Disclaimer, this post does not necessarily reflect the views of the company, this is one man's word after a homebrew)

 

[passedpawn]

I stumbled across this post by whatever stroke of luck.

I happen to work at Brew Your Own Brew in Tucson.

First, I want to apologize for the treatment you received, and can assure you the person who helped you no longer works there. We do now offer the chance to replaced grains that have bugs in them as well as explain that they will have no noticeable affects on the beer. Nature's a b&$@* sometimes ;D

Did you get a chance to talk to Gary?

Drop on in soon!

I'm guessing he doesn't have the grain any longer. It's been 5 years since he posted.

 

[gudgabe]

Lol, yeah I got that, thanks. Late apology, hope it helps.