Budweiser clone

[Gear101]

Why don't you just make a nice hoppy apa and call it a day. I agree to cone any of the big brewery beers is going to be very hard, and if it is not dead on, people will tell you just that, many reason why I almost always say " I make good beer, but it is no bud light" right from the begining

 

[Brewskii]

I just made a classic American pilsner using about 25% corn and it didn't taste like bud much at all. Much sweeter - more like a Coors than anything (but much better tasting! ). So I'd probably agree with the rice. Maybe add a touch of flaked maize if you want to experiment?

Not to de-rail this thread but...I was surprised to find out that "classic American Pilsner(2C)" is more of a rare style than you'd think and certainly a completely different profile than "Standard American Lager (1B)".
Jamil's article in BYO last month was very interesting.

 

[iMac6]

Not to de-rail this thread but...I was surprised to find out that "classic American Pilsner(2C)" is more of a rare style than you'd think and certainly a completely different profile than "Standard American Lager (1B)".
Jamil's article in BYO last month was very interesting.

It sounds like the Classic American Pilsner morphed into the Standard American lager over the years at Anheuser-Busch and other American mega-breweries. As Jamil said, the Classic American Pilsner is "your grandfather's Budweiser". Ahh, the evolution of brewing.

That article was my motivation to give it a shot. In fact, that was the exact recipe I used, because I wanted to see what pre-prohibition American lager tasted like. Turned out really well - very interesting beer style. I liked it more than I thought I would!

 

[Nateo]

Boulevard makes an all-malt pilsner they call a "classic American lager." Not sure what style it would fall under, since there aren't any adjuncts. http://www.boulevard.com/BoulevardBeers/boulevard-pilsner

 

[jholder]

I can appreciate the difficulty of brewing huge amounts of Bud, that are ALWAYS consistent in taste. That being said, just because something is difficult to do does not mean it is necessarily a good idea to do it...

 

[cook1969]

Ive tried and sorta failed several times to make a really light Pale ale. As others stated above it was really hard because the slightest mistake in my process was SO magnified. On the flip side it really helped me improve my process and find some problem areas because of how magnified the mistakes are in a beer like that. I think you should try it a few times. God knows homebrewers do much crazier "expiriments". I took some to my LHBS and the owner started telling me what some of my processes and equipment were as he was drinking without me even telling him and reccomended several pointers that REALLY helped me.

 

[LoneWolfPR]

Oh yeah, speaking of process. In case it hasn't been mentioned (and in case you didn't already know), in any style that light water profile is going to be very important. You're going to want a pretty low mineral content.

 

[Nateo]

Oh yeah, speaking of process. In case it hasn't been mentioned (and in case you didn't already know), in any style that light water profile is going to be very important. You're going to want a pretty low mineral content.

IMO water is toward the bottom of the list in importance, after #1 yeast handling, and #2 mash/grist handling. Unless it has really high magnesium, sodium, or sulfate, moderately hard water is fine. I brew a Munich Helles-type beer fairly frequently, with water that has a GH of 4-5dH and KH of 2-3dH. It's not nearly as soft as people generally recommend for pilsen water, but all other minerals in my water are single digits, so it works well for me.

 

[LoneWolfPR]

I'm just used to placing a lot of importance on water because my local water is extremely hard. So I don't really think about the fact that other people aren't in the same situation as me I guess

 

[Nateo]

Alkalinity is bad, to the extent it needs to be neutralized when brewing light beers. 50ppm of calcium isn't bad, but 50ppm of magnesium is. 50ppm of chloride is ok, 50ppm of sulfate is bad. It's easy to just say "soft water" or "hard water" but it's a bit more complicated than that.

 

[anteup]

You got a clydesdale? Have is piss in the fermenter.

 

[davis119]

You got a clydesdale? Have is piss in the fermenter.

Let's see you come even close to making a bud or bud light

 

[LoneWolfPR]

Alkalinity is bad, to the extent it needs to be neutralized when brewing light beers. 50ppm of calcium isn't bad, but 50ppm of magnesium is. 50ppm of chloride is ok, 50ppm of sulfate is bad. It's easy to just say "soft water" or "hard water" but it's a bit more complicated than that.

Good info. Thanks. Did a check. The latest water reports don't show everything, but Chlorine is only 1.5 ppm, Sulfates at 72 ppm, Sodium at 41 ppm, Hardness 305 ppm, and pH sits at about 7.5.

 

[Nateo]

Good info. Thanks. Did a check. The latest water reports don't show everything, but Chlorine is only 1.5 ppm, Sulfates at 72 ppm, Sodium at 41 ppm, Hardness 305 ppm, and pH sits at about 7.5.

Yeah, that's hard in all the wrong ways. For light lagers I'd go with RO + CaCl. Magnesium with sulfate makes epsom salt, which is harshly bitter.

My alkalinity is ridiculously high, like 440ppm, but my pH is around 7.5 too. So the actual pH of the water doesn't matter much. My water has crazy high alkalinity and temporary hardness, but basically nothing else in it, so once the alkalinity is knocked down it works pretty well.

With that much sodium and sulfate, your water has high permanent hardness, which is a lot harder to deal with than temporary hardness.

 

[Yuri_Rage]

No more disparaging remarks. It's a real question, and it deserves a real answer. If you want to bash BMC, do it outside the technical subforums.

Allow myself to quote myself. Next "horse piss" or similar remark will result in a ban (temporary, at least).

 

[LoneWolfPR]

Yeah, that's hard in all the wrong ways. For light lagers I'd go with RO + CaCl. Magnesium with sulfate makes epsom salt, which is harshly bitter.

My alkalinity is ridiculously high, like 440ppm, but my pH is around 7.5 too. So the actual pH of the water doesn't matter much. My water has crazy high alkalinity and temporary hardness, but basically nothing else in it, so once the alkalinity is knocked down it works pretty well.

With that much sodium and sulfate, your water has high permanent hardness, which is a lot harder to deal with than temporary hardness.

Yeah, I always just start with RO and modify based on the water profile I need. I get great results with IPA's by just using RO with a teaspoon of gypsum per 5 gallons in the boil.

 

[Nateo]

The next Helles I brew, I'm going to try the "no-sparge" method. It's supposed to extract fewer tannins and polyphenols than you would by sparging. For light beers that sounds like a good idea.

Does anyone else brew their light beers that way?

 

[TimTrone]

The next Helles I brew, I'm going to try the "no-sparge" method. It's supposed to extract fewer tannins and polyphenols than you would by sparging. For light beers that sounds like a good idea.

Does anyone else brew their light beers that way?

I batch sparge for all my beers, and have never had a problem with lighter beers. How do you get enough wort with the no sparge method?

 

[Nateo]

I batch sparge for all my beers, and have never had a problem with lighter beers. How do you get enough wort with the no sparge method?

Here's the article I read about it: http://www.byo.com/stories/techniques/article/indices/9-all-grain-brewing/1407-skip-the-sparge

I think there are a couple ways to do it. One is to drain part of the mash tun, then add the "sparge" water, but if your mash tun is big enough, you can just add the whole preboil volume to the mash. Something about draining the mash tun completely is more likely to extract harsher flavors.

 

[mhot55]

Good counter-point ( about a great spaghetti & meatballs dinner) I guess I agree after all considering one of my favorite recipes to make is a nice easy normal cream ale. Still I frigging hate bud. Have no problems making a classic American pils though. In fact gonna do it next week. I just have an extreme aversion to bud (or coors, etc).

 

[Nateo]

IIRC Jamil said it was important to whirlpool your trub and cold break, and separate those before fermentation. I haven't tried that either, but that sounds like a pretty easy precaution.

 

[BierMuncher]

Thanks I think I'm gonna try the cream ale recipe thanks for all the help

If you use the C of 3C's recipe as a base, I would reduce the corn to a half pound, replace all but one pound of the rest with rice... And for that last one pound, use simple cane sugar. Mash at 149* for 90 minutes. This is my go to neighborhood favorite.

 

[LoneWolfPR]

Sorry if this is a stupid question, but would that can sugar just go in the boil?

 

[kingsturdevant]

Drew Beechum has a recipe for this he calls "Dougweiser".

From his book: "this will be the hardest beer you'll ever brew. In addition to the challenging cereal mash, you'll find there is nothing teo hide behind. Brewers developed and refined this recipe for a decade before considering it done."

 

[Varmintman]

If you use the C of 3C's recipe as a base, I would reduce the corn to a half pound, replace all but one pound of the rest with rice... And for that last one pound, use simple cane sugar. Mash at 149* for 90 minutes. This is my go to neighborhood favorite.

Dang my third batch of this I brewed just today and after two batches I ended up with the same thing other than I have not done the sugar thing yet. I wonder if that will dry it up to much.

Sigh I will try the sugar next batch LOL. Good thing I love brewing

 

[1Mainebrew]

I made a Premium American Lager a little while ago, and when I tasted it during racking to secondary last week to lager it was crisp, clean, sweet and ever so light.

GRAIN
4 lb 2-row
4 lb 6-row
1 lb flaked corn
1 lb flaked rice

HOP
1 oz Hallertau Mittelfrueh

YEAST
S-23 (and no, there were no hints of passionfruit wine cooler or diacetyl)

MASH
10 min at 130
60 min at 149 (infusion)
Sparge

FERMENTATION STEPS
10 days at 51
5 days at 70
Lagering now for a couple months

STATS
OG: 1.051
FG: 1.007
IBU: 15

 

[Nateo]

Rice vs Corn vs Sugar - What are the reasons you'd pick one over the other? It was mentioned earlier on the thread that Budweiser doesn't use corn, only rice, though other AB/InBev products use corn.

 

[Brewskii]

Rice vs Corn vs Sugar - What are the reasons you'd pick one over the other? It was mentioned earlier on the thread that Budweiser doesn't use corn, only rice, though other AB/InBev products use corn.

Corn tastes like, well... Corn... In the finished beer; whereas, rice doesn't taste like much of anything. Since the sugars of both are almost entirely fermentable they contribute to dryness via alcohol but very little to body, corn contributes a corny flavor which can increase perception of sweet without being DMS like. but for that crisp, clean taste that says "Budweiser" you'll need rice.

 

[Nateo]

Any reason rice is better than sugar?

 

[Gear101]

I made a Premium American Lager a little while ago, and when I tasted it during racking to secondary last week to lager it was crisp, clean, sweet and ever so light.

GRAIN
4 lb 2-row
4 lb 6-row
1 lb flaked corn
1 lb flaked rice

HOP
1 oz Hallertau Mittelfrueh

YEAST
S-23 (and no, there were no hints of passionfruit wine cooler or diacetyl)

MASH
10 min at 130
60 min at 149 (infusion)
Sparge

FERMENTATION STEPS
10 days at 51
5 days at 70
Lagering now for a couple months

STATS
OG: 1.051
FG: 1.007
IBU: 15

You might really have something there, that looks pretty close, or as close as a person would be able to get. Anyway looks like a good beer

Any reason rice is better than sugar?

Rice will have less taste in the finish product, if any at all. Sugar (IMHO) will still remain with a sweeter taste. Really all depends on what you are after.

So long and short, rice when eating really has no favor, well sugar is sweet.