Buckets VS Carboys

[blacklab]

I'll share my experience here, because it speaks against this comment. I picked up an infection from a locally-produced no-boil wort kit that infected my equipment. It ruined 3 or 4 subsequent batches of beer because no amount of cleaning could get rid of it, and I had to replace everything. The bucket was the likely culprit since they scratch easily and can be hard to clean. I now ONLY use glass, although Better Bottles are looking attractive.

Having said this, I would not discourage anyone from using a bucket as a primary, but please recognize that the concerns over sanitization with a bucket are real. Specifically, if you get an infection, you must be prepared to replace all your plastic gear (especially buckets). Had I done this, I would have saved a lot of money in the long run.

Hey Flyguy - as noted in my previous post, I use plastic for primaries. The kind of bucket I use is a food grade bucket which my LHBS specifically sells for this purpose. It is supposed to be inert and should not pick up flavors/aromas from each batch. I find them easy to use and clean.

Is this the type of bucket you used? Was there a visible scratch?

You've got me all nervous now!

 

[blacklab]

A mixture of bleach and urine, wasn't it?

Thought it was Windex and cat piss?

 

[FlyGuy]

Hey Flyguy - as noted in my previous post, I use plastic for primaries. The kind of bucket I use is a food grade bucket which my LHBS specifically sells for this purpose. It is supposed to be inert and should not pick up flavors/aromas from each batch. I find them easy to use and clean.

Is this the type of bucket you used? Was there a visible scratch?

You've got me all nervous now!

I used the same plastic primaries that most people buy with a first beer-making kit. It had a Wine and Beer Making logo on the side.

No, there were no visible scratches, but it takes VERY little to harbour nasties. Just cleaning with a plastic brush or scrubby is said to be enough to scratch it.

But like I said, my situation was rare and you don't have to worry MUCH about this as long as you take care of your equipment. However, if you do get an infection with plastic gear -- just be prepared to replace it all (bucket, hoses, etc.).

Cheers!

 

[ff186]

Hey All

Thanks for the input. I have purchased two buckets and have a wheat beer brewing as we speak. I will continue to use the glass I have for secondary use only. Hey FLYGUY any time you want to talk fly fishing let me know. If you ever come to Colorado look me up.

Jason

 

[FlyGuy]

Hey All

Thanks for the input. I have purchased two buckets and have a wheat beer brewing as we speak. I will continue to use the glass I have for secondary use only. Hey FLYGUY any time you want to talk fly fishing let me know. If you ever come to Colorado look me up.

Jason

Good stuff. Where in Colorado are you? PM me, if you like.

I used to live in Fort Collins and fished all the local streams, although it was a few years ago.

 

[modenacart]

Why do so many people use plastic for primary and glass for secondary?

 

[BlindLemonLars]

Why do so many people use plastic for primary and glass for secondary?

I suppose it's because plastic is more permeable to oxygen, and generally beer spends more time in secondary than in primary.

Personally, I think you'd have to leave beer in plastic a VERY long time before oxidation becomes a factor. Besides, these days many people leave their beer in primary for much longer, and skip the secondary.

 

[SteveM]

Why do so many people use plastic for primary and glass for secondary?

That's my system also. I think others have mentioned some of the reasons:

Convenience - buckets are perceived to be less likely to have blow-outs and are easy to clean krausen out of. For a primary stage, this is more of an issue than for a secondary.

Oxygen permeability is unlikely to be much of a real consideration - but there are those who have experience that suggests this will be an issue if the beer is left sitting for extended periods (a month or more). Therefore, many people will switch to a carboy for the second stage to reduce the risk.

I don't discount anyone's experiences with trying to sanitize a plastic bucket that has become infected. It must be very frustrating. I will only say that I use No Rinse sanitizer and I will put four gallons into my bucket a couple of hours before I pour in my wort. EVERYTHING that touches my brew is immersed in the bucket and I am careful to make sure that the entire inside of the bucket is well rinsed, and the lid (which always seems like a easy place for microbes of various type to hide) is fully immersed for an extended period of time. I've not had a problem in years of brewing, but I don't discount that luck might also be a factor.

This, plus my normal mix cat piss and lye, seem to do the trick.

 

[bensyverson]

Whoa! You aren't suggesting to lift a full carboy with one of those handles, are you? That is just asking for trouble!

Please don't use carboy handles to lift/carry a full carboy!

Really?

That's what I've been doing with my 5g carboys... The handle is tightened so that there's no way it can slip over the lip of the carboy. It seems a lot safer to me than lifting it all the way up into your arms... Carrying it by the handle, it hovers about 6 inches off the ground, and lowers you center of gravity, adding stability -- drop it, and you've only dropped it 6 inches, probably not enough to crack it. Carrying it in your arms, it's way off the ground, and it makes your center of gravity much higher -- I would think you'd be more likely to slip, trip, or drop it, with potentially gory results.

Perhaps some carboys have a differently shaped lip than mine, but the handle (designed specifically for the 5 gal carboy) is really not going to magically slip off. The key is to let the handle rotate and pivot freely, so it doesn't buckle at some inopportune moment... When I got my first one, I over-tightened the handle with it pointing up, and when I was pouring out the sanitizing solution in the sink, the handle suddenly pivoted down, which was startling. If I had been holding it differently, I definitely could have dropped it...

Anyway, what do I know, I'm a newb.

 

[FSR402]

Really?

That's what I've been doing with my 5g carboys... The handle is tightened so that there's no way it can slip over the lip of the carboy. It seems a lot safer to me than lifting it all the way up into your arms... Carrying it by the handle, it hovers about 6 inches off the ground, and lowers you center of gravity, adding stability -- drop it, and you've only dropped it 6 inches, probably not enough to crack it. Carrying it in your arms, it's way off the ground, and it makes your center of gravity much higher -- I would think you'd be more likely to slip, trip, or drop it, with potentially gory results.

Perhaps some carboys have a differently shaped lip than mine, but the handle (designed specifically for the 5 gal carboy) is really not going to magically slip off. The key is to let the handle rotate and pivot freely, so it doesn't buckle at some inopportune moment... When I got my first one, I over-tightened the handle with it pointing up, and when I was pouring out the sanitizing solution in the sink, the handle suddenly pivoted down, which was startling. If I had been holding it differently, I definitely could have dropped it...

Anyway, what do I know, I'm a newb.

It has nothing to do with it slipping off. It has to do with the neck of the carboy is not ment to be strong enough to hold that kind of weight and thus it can snap off.

 

[bensyverson]

Yikes -- that does sound scary..

 

[FSR402]

Yikes -- that does sound scary..

Yeah just like never grab the hydromiter by the skinny part and try to shake the sanatizer off it. they don't last long whe you do that.

 

[kappclark]

I do buckets and then glass carboys ... I have only 2 carboys at this time, but I think I will be going with better bottles ... I had a close call about a month ago.

Or, skip the secondary and just rack from the primary to the bottling bucket or keg. I have had success both ways..

 

[SixFoFalcon]

Yeah, I think I might replace my armada of carboys with two 6 gallon Better Bottles. I'll primary in them until reaching terminal gravity, then rack into Cornies w/ priming sugar and let them sit for bulk conditioning.

 

[Finn]

Yikes -- that does sound scary..

Y'know, it's really all about excess of caution. You probably could get away with lugging a fiver around by the neck, and some folks have for years, but when you've got 40 pounds of liquid wrapped around shrapnel that's perfectly capable of killing you if you drop it, you've got to give it some serious respect. It's like carrying a Glock around with a round in the chamber.

Catastrophic carboy failures are really very rare, even among those that are abused (boiling water dumped in after vessel is brought in from 20-degree weather, lugged about full by the neck, etc.) -- we've all heard the stories but most everybody we know uses the things and most of us don't know a single person who's gotten hurt. Still, most of us don't know anybody who's been hurt in a gun-handling accident either, and that doesn't stop us from handling guns with extreme caution.

In other words, don't overpsyche, but do be careful. That's the Rev. Finn's sermon for the day.

 

[jtvinny]

Oops, crap! Thanks for the correction. Yes -- right hand gripping handle, left hand under the base. Dramatically reduces possibility of glass slipping out of your grip and eliminates any need to "squeeze" the bottle to hang onto it.

Unless, of course, you're carrying two at once. In which case, grab the handles, lift with your back and start rehearsing your acceptance speech for your Darwin award ....

Now I don't care who you are THAT'S FUNNY!!:cross:

I think it's extra credit point towards the Darwin award if you start the act with "Hey ya'll watch this!"

 

[uglygoat]

i only use glass...

 

[Bert]

I've been using glass carboys for primaries (6.5 gal) and secondaries (5.0 gal) and have to admit that the breakage stories are scary.

What I'm wondering is if the carboys could be modified a bit to make them safer.

I'm considering getting some clear contact paper and wrapping it around the carboys (on the flat side area) to contain any shards in the event of a disaster. This is a somewhat similar concept to automotive safety glass. The bottom and upper area of the carboy could of course still shatter but I think the contact paper (which is really plastic) would lessen the risks greatly.

 

[paranode]

I like having my bucket for primary. It's easy to carry around and really easy to pour into after cooling the wort. It's not hard to clean either.

 

[Homercidal]

I have plastic bucket for primary, and glass carbouy for secondary. I'm moving to BB for secondaries though, due to the risk of breaking the glass. I've had mine slip a few times, and more than once hard enough to make me surprised it didnt' break.

I'll likely be usin the glass carbouy for winemaking (apfelwein!) or mead or lagering, but I'm going to get one of those bottle straps for carrying. You know you can't use them while washing an sanitizing, when your carbouy is most likely to be slippery.

 

[jtvinny]

Don't carboys fit in milk crates or something that they could be moved in to make them less unruly/slippery?

 

[Hagen]

If you feel that your carboys are too dangerous, I can help. Wrap and pack them securely and send them to me, along with a $20 disposal fee.

But seriously folks, just treat them with respect and care, like a car. I may hoist a few pints while brewing, but NEVER when I'm going to handle a carboy. I'll rack from bucket to carboy, put the carboy away, THEN I'll get to brewing and the pints.

Funny, some will obsess over glass, but think nothing of hovering over a burner powerful enough to put a small satellite into orbit.

 

[SteveM]

It's not a complete solution but I made a square rolling platform about 16" on a side out of 2X3s with heavy duty castors. So the only time I need to lift my carboy, that's all I'm doing - lifting. I never have to carry it around from place to place.

Here is the description: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=20779