Bubbles

[Riles8148]

How long should it take before the bung has co2 bubbles going through?

 

[Riles8148]

How long before co2 bubbles should be running through the bung?

 

[JohnnyO]

Hey man, welcome to HBT.

Every fermentation is different, so there is no exact answer. If you're using dry yeast, you should probably see some activity in 18-36 hours. If you used liquid yeast and used a starter, it will "start" quicker.

Don't fret though if you don't get airlock activity (bubbles). It doesn't always happen, and you shouldn't use that as a gauge of fermentation. Use your hydrometer.

That being said, we all love seeing airlock activity.

 

[grace1760]

check the fermentation sticky at the top of the page, all the answers you're looking for are there

 

[Revvy]

I'm never concerned whether it bubbles or not, half my beers NEVER blip an airlock....

Now as to whether or not your beer is FERMENTING, which is really what you care about, right? Not whether your cheap airlock bubbles.

#1 https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/fermentation-can-take-24-72-hrs-show-visible-signs-43635/, and by visible signs we don't necessarily mean a bubbling airlock.

It IS a sticky at the top of the beginners forum for a reason, afterall.

As already stated in the linked sticky, Fermentation often can take up to three days to start. And by visible signs they do NOT mean airlock bubbling.

BUT without a gravity reading all you are telling me is that your airlock wasn't bubbling....That is NOT the same thing as a fermentation happening.

Whether it's in a conical, a bucket, or a carboy, it's the same thing. An airlock is a VENT, a VALVE to release excess co2, nothing more.

If it's not bubbling it just means that there no excess co2 to be vented out.


A beer may ferment perfectly fine without a single blip in the airlock. Or airlocks can start or stop or start and stop again, for a ton of other reasons, like temp changes, getting nudged, changes in barometric pressure, but your beer could still be fermenting fine.

That's why you need to take a gravity reading to know how your fermentation is going, NOT go by airlocks. The most important tool you can use is a hydrometer. It's the only way you will truly know when your beer is ready...airlock bubbles and other things are faulty.

The only way to truly know what is going on in your fermenter is with your hydrometer. Like I said here in my blog, which I encourage you to read, Think evaluation before action you sure as HELL wouldn't want a doctor to start cutting on you unless he used the proper diagnostic instuments like x-rays first, right? You wouldn't want him to just take a look in your eyes briefly and say "I'm cutting into your chest first thing in the morning." You would want them to use the right diagnostic tools before the slice and dice, right? You'd cry malpractice, I would hope, if they didn't say they were sending you for an MRI and other things before going in....

Thinking about "doing anything" without taking a hydrometer reading is tantamount to the doctor deciding to cut you open without running any diagnostic tests....Taking one look at you and saying, "Yeah I'm going in." You would really want the doctor to use all means to properly diagnose what's going on?

So wait at least 72 hours and take a grav reading if you are worried still, but don't worry as to whether or not the airlock bubbles.

 

[Revvy]

THere's no need to start two threads asking the same question. THere's already answers in your other thread.

 

[mgortel]

Anhywhere from 24 to 72 hours typically......

But, take the advice above and read the fermentation sticky

 

[usfmikeb]

half my beers NEVER blip an airlock....

Seriously?

 

[Revvy]

Seriously?

No, I made it up for ****s and giggles. 'Cause I need to make crap up to help new brewers.

 

[emjay]

I think the bubbles just have to do with the quality of the seal. If, for instance, the grommet on your pail isn't 100% sealed with both the lid and the airlock (or bung to the neck and the airlock in the case of a carboy), there's likely less resistance (even just a tiny bit) for the CO2 to escape through the fault in the seal rather than the airlock.

In my experience, when this happens, the space that CO2 ends up passing through is often too small to see (although whatever's causing the imperfect seal might be visible.) So there's nothing to worry about even if there's a small leak, because it's pretty much just as protected against oxygen and beer-spoiling microorganisms as it would otherwise be.

 

[ThePearsonFam]

It's not just about the seal though. Many things influence the fermentation and airlock activity. Don't sweat it. Revvy is spot on. Take a gravity reading, know where it's supposed to end up and wait for the consecutive readings.

 

[emjay]

That's why you need to take a gravity reading to know how your fermentation is going, NOT go by airlocks. The most important tool you can use is a hydrometer.

I generally use time. As in, not futzing around with my beer for nearly a solid month (or longer.) Of course though, it's hard for any new brewer to have that kind of patience and be so hands-off with their babies. I remember my first few beers, I wanted to know exactly what was going on and was so concerned with potential problems (most of which I have STILL not run into, they're so uncommon), that I was opening up my beer every day or two and tracking the gravity. I quickly realized it was a useless (and potentially harmful) practice though, and the idea of me doing it these days just sounds so absurd.

But before I mislead anyone, I DO check the gravity, generally 3 times per beer. A typical, straightforward brew without any big anticipated issues goes like this:

1) I check the gravity of the sweet wort BEFORE boiling to make sure I'm on track - and if I'm not, I make adjustments before boiling.

2) I check it again after boiling, and after chilling, but before I pitch the yeast, to record my OG and ensure I've hit my target.

3) I leave the beer totally alone for at least 4 weeks, sometimes longer (depending on how lazy I'm feeling), and when I go to bottle my beer, the first "bottle" I fill is my sample jar. This lets me record the FG, calculate the ABV, and diagnose potential problems. If it's too high (haven't ever run into that issue unless I was just being impatient... yet), I know it's underattenuated and there are a few things that can be done to try to fix it. If the FG is lower than it should be capable of (which can be precisely determined with a forced fermentation), then the problem is either a mistake I made, or an infection, and the former can be easily ruled out with good record-keeping.

For the vast majority of beers, I don't see the point in measuring more often unless you're desperate for a quick turnover (which WILL be to the detriment of your beer.) It lets the yeast do its thing, prevents the brewer from panicking too hastily, and totally minimizes exposure to oxygen and contaminants, since the gravity is ONLY measured when the beer is already being exposed/transferred anyways.

 

[rycov]

where do your buckets come from revvy? or what else would be causing that? i'm with you on the "use your hydro, not your airlock" just curious because when i do look at my fermenters during the first week they usually are bubbling. i guess i could have had a few not bubble when i didn't look at them, but i would say that most of them do.

 

[jjward101]

No, I made it up for ****s and giggles. 'Cause I need to make crap up to help new brewers.

Lol. Ive only had 2 batches ferment out with no aIrlock action, but 2 is more than none.

 

[Riles8148]

Thanks for all the great advice! I plan on checking it in a couple days just for my sanity and excitement.

 

[jjward101]

Thanks for all the great advice! I plan on checking it in a couple days just for my sanity and excitement.

Check it!then forget it for a month.

 

[Riles8148]

Thanks revvy...did not realize how active this forum is

 

[Revvy]

Lol. Ive only had 2 batches ferment out with no aIrlock action, but 2 is more than none.

THAT'S THE POINT RIGHT THERE!!!! If it's failed once that's enough to consider it unreliable, regardless of why it's not happening.

My belief is that 1 occurrance is an anamoly, 2 may be a coincidence, BUT 3 or more occurance is an epidemic...and that's the case for folks relying on airlocks all the time, to me if 1 brewer comes on saying his airlock is not bubbling, AND he takes a reading and finds fermentation is going fine, that's an anamoly...

But DAILY on here there are at least 10 threads stating the exact thing...so MAYBE there is something to this idea that airlocks can be faulty. AND if they have the potential to be faulty, then how can we trust them to tell us what's going on?

You can quibble about it all you want, or deal in semantics, but we deal in sheer volume of users on here, and daily we have airlocks not bubbling, and many of them where a gravity reading indicates that fermentation is happening beautifully.

I've said it over and over and trolls like to try to get me, or even accuse me of lying (which I don't get why I would lie about something like this) but over the years of LOTS of batches of ALL SIZES and BOTH carboys and buckets, better bottles or glass, carboy caps or bungs, new buckets old buckets, s-types and 3 piece, I get about 50% airlock failure rate (but 100% success rate of fermentation) and it's any number if things, usually simply a non tight seal in the bucket or carboy or grommet....but to me the reason doesn't matter....the point is just trying to glance at an airlock and know what the beer is doing, just is NOT accurate.

Besides airlocks tell you the WHAT is happening, that co2 is or isn't getting out of the fermenter....but they aren't telling you the WHY. If it's fermenting or not, or off gassing or not. If it's done or not....

And yes, in an IDEAL situation (like let's say fermenting in a keg with a tight seal and no leak from around the airlock) the airlock SHOULD bubble 100% of the time (providing there's not too much headspace.) If more co2 is created than can be contained in the spave of the fermenter, THEN an airlock should bubble....because an airlock is a valve.

But MOST of us don't have IDEAL situations, and rarely is a plastic or glass fermenter airtight- it really isn't supposed to be anyway...SO we aren't in the best situation to have IDEAL 100% accuracy of an airlock...

And that's primarily because "back in the day" they were heavy and made of glass, and sat fairly tightly on the fermenters. And they were usually s-type, which tend to bubble more easily since they don't have a stupid little center piece to try to lift. So they simply worked better.

But like any POS cheap thing made offshore and of plastic- they don't always work as they should.

Add to the fact that folks who wrote most books are just repeating 30 year old info written by papazian who were writing in the era of glass, they just keep repeating the whole thing rote...even though Most authors and experienced brewers nowadays probably do what a lot of us do and pitch and walk away, not paying attention to anything but a hydro reading (if they feel they need one.)

But they've really failed to let their work- their books or even kit instructions reflect the truth....That most of them don't work too well these days.

Hell I betch papzian still has his glass airlocks from the 70's and prolly hasn't noticed that the plastic ones don't work too well.

And it wasn't really until you get to places like this, websites where you literally recieve hundreds if not thousand of posts a week,,,hundreds a day that you start to spot all these folks whose airlocks aren't or are bubbling or stopping or starting for whatever reason, yeast lag, atmospheric changes, slow down in fermentation, the cat hitting it, opening them, bad seals, and yet gravity readings indicate all is well (when you get the scared newbs to ACTUALLY take a reading.)


So that's why it's a good idea NOT to relie on or stress out about what it is or isn't doing. Just realize that airlocks bubble or they don't, they start, they stop, they bubble fast, they bubble slow, and they bubble or don't whether fermentation happens or not.

 

[ArcaneXor]

I'm never concerned whether it bubbles or not, half my beers NEVER blip an airlock....

I have always wondered... If you know the bung/gasket is leaky, why use an airlock at all?

 

[slomo]

My first 7 batches had airlock activity, and I would often just sit there and watch the bubbles. I never took the airlock to seriously as an accurate gauge of fermentation, but I did love those bubbles. Then one day I read one of Revvy's emails about bubbles, and all of the sudden the bubbles stopped. I was sad it was like I lost a dear friend, but then I realized that i had great beer. So it wasn't too bad.

 

[emjay]

It's not just about the seal though. Many things influence the fermentation and airlock activity. Don't sweat it. Revvy is spot on. Take a gravity reading, know where it's supposed to end up and wait for the consecutive readings.

I agree with almost everything else, but, while it's true that many things influence the airlock activity, most of these these cause the airlock to bubble without fermentation necessarily causing it, whereas the other way around, lack of bubbling is generally about the seal. If you disagree, I'd LOVE to hear some other possibilities - other than something like low pressure suddenly being created in the fermentor - because yeast would have to REALLY be on its last legs to not be able to quickly produce enough to start bubbling again, and if that's the case, it would have spent a while already bubbling vigorously.

There's a reason that priming sugar is able to reliably carbonate bottles all the time. And the only two reasons it won't be carbing, funnily enough, are that

a)it's poorly capped, creating a leaky seal! or...

b) it actually ISN'T attenuating, with a number of causes spanning from yeast in poor health, not enough yeast at all, or - probably most commonly - improper storage temperatures.

 

[ArcaneXor]

If the airlock isn't bubbling, it can only be:

1.) no activity that releases gases
2.) cracked airlock
3.) Poor seal
4.) Insufficient liquid level in airlock
5.) It did bubble, but you didn't pay attention again!!! It tricked you!
5.) a wormhole in your fermentor

 

[emjay]

I have always wondered... If you know the bung/gasket is leaky, why use an airlock at all?

The leak will be small enough that contaminants won't really get in, and the pressure of the CO2 being generated and pushed out a tiny hole will easily prevent oxygen from coming in.

An airlock is a safety device, creating a controlled leak with slightly extra protection from microorganisms. But if a little krausen creates some dried up crud, or some hop material reaches the top during active fermentation... either can happen, and a little tiny leak is plugged up a LOT easier than the larger holes in the controlled leak aka airlock, and bad things will happen.

Heck, since the leak IS generally a fair bit smaller than the hole(s) in the airlock, it can only support a certain amount of flow. So even if it doesn't plug... if the fermentation is crazy and CO2 is being created too quickly... KABOOM!

 

[Revvy]

I have always wondered... If you know the bung/gasket is leaky, why use an airlock at all?

A lot of folks don't. In fact many folks with arthitis and other issues don't snap the lid down on their buckets anyway, and may folks just put tinfoil, plastic wrap, metal cookie sheets or even plexiglass sheets on top of the bucket instead. It's really not crucial to be tight.

Some folks use blowoff tubes exclusively...

There are a few fermentation buckets that do not have a grommeted gasket for an airlock...Some you do need to drill, while others don't and the lids don't sit all that tight on them.

The newest thing, that is replacing airlocks on carboys is this.

These food grade silicone stoppers feature several vent holes lightly sealed with a silicone top flap. Gases can escape, but cannot get in. Just put the stopper on your carboy, and forget it. No worries about evaporation or water getting into your fermenter. This #10 size is pictured at right above, and fits all Better Bottles, and other containers with a 1.75" opening.

http://www.fyurl.com/rr.php?c=2&sit....com/10-VENTED-SILICONE-STOPPER-P2667C94.aspx

And the mr beer fermenter doesn't even have an airlock, and SOMEHOW beer manages to still ferment in those things.

An airlock is nothing more than a valve to keep the lid from blowing off and painting your ceiling with your beer.

The bad stuff are not ninja acrobats, they really can't get into stuff. The co2 coming out will prevent anything getting in.

The airlock is one of the most superfluous things in brewing, that new brewers seem to put the most stock in.

They seem to act like it's a magic fermentation gauge...they too easily equate bubbling with fermentation, relying on something unreliable usually because they're too afraid to use the one tool that WILL tell them what the beer is doing...OR too untrustworty of the yeast, to just sit back and relax.....

I mean I've never had yeast NOT work for me....It's never failed me. So I take two readings, one at yeast pitch and one 1 month later on bottling day. But if ever I suspect something is amiss, I don't HESITATE to pull a sample.

But I put as much faith in an airlock as I do in the belief that that 20 something "stripper working her way through college" who sent me spammail really does want to date my fat a$$.

 

[beerkrump]

Foil = Airlock

It's all Pasteur's experiment.


When Revvy was a little boy his puppy was run over by a truck full of airlocks. What else can explain it?

 

[Revvy]

Foil = Airlock

It's all Pasteur's experiment.


When Revvy was a little boy his puppy was run over by a truck full of airlocks. What else can explain it?

LOL...

It's actually because of all the dumped batches that freaked out new brewers have poured down the drain because their airlock didn't bubble, and they put too much faith in the stooopid POS plastic, and didn't know about or were afraid to take a hydro reading. Every year we get 2-3 folks on here who actually do that.

AND every day we get a bunch of brewers on here thinking something's amiss for the same reason.

 

[ThePearsonFam]

I agree with almost everything else, but, while it's true that many things influence the airlock activity, most of these these cause the airlock to bubble without fermentation necessarily causing it, whereas the other way around, lack of bubbling is generally about the seal. If you disagree, I'd LOVE to hear some other possibilities - other than something like low pressure suddenly being created in the fermentor - because yeast would have to REALLY be on its last legs to not be able to quickly produce enough to start bubbling again, and if that's the case, it would have spent a while already bubbling vigorously.

There's a reason that priming sugar is able to reliably carbonate bottles all the time. And the only two reasons it won't be carbing, funnily enough, are that

a)it's poorly capped, creating a leaky seal! or...

b) it actually ISN'T attenuating, with a number of causes spanning from yeast in poor health, not enough yeast at all, or - probably most commonly - improper storage temperatures.

Completely agree... Totally true if you're in the most active portion of the fermentation. There are folks on here that'll stare at an airlock for a minute, not see a bubble (in day 3 or 4) and think that there is something wrong. Many will come on here and sweat the bubbles when they don't have temp control, the temp dropped 5 degrees and there's no bubbles coming out. The more appropriate answer is, if you are worried about your brew, take a gravity reading to know where you are in the process. Don't count on the airlock to determine the viability of the fermentation or quality of the beer. That's usually the point of EVERY 'airlock-no bubbles' discussion that happens on here.

For what it's worth, I use airlocks, carboys and bungs/caps. I've always had strong bubble action during the vigorous fermentation because I have a good seal on the fermenter...

 

[Riles8148]

Well I am learning a heck of a lot. I checked my plastic carboy this morning and had a nice head of krausen and the bung was doing it's magical bubble tricks....I feel like I am goin to take the advice of basically everyone and let it be...

One more question, will the bung run out of water and if so do I just add more sanitized water?

 

[ThePearsonFam]

It may start to evaporate depending on your conditions. Refilling is perfectly fine. Just keep it at the line.