Brutus 10 BYO Plans Changes?

[TrickyDick]

Had the BYO mag when it came out, got the "plans" today.


TD

 

[TrickyDick]

THat regulator will bolt right onto a standard propane cylinder?

TD

 

[Irrenarzt]

Shonuff hombre

 

[TrickyDick]

On a slightly different note, but also relating to the Brutus builds...

I plan NOT to route the wires internally - mostly because I want to get the cart welded up first before I plan the wiring part, and since that means I'll be doing the drilling, no thanks...

Well, after reading the sticky about exploding keggles, due to bottom rim not having any perforations, and pressure build-up, I was curious about the Brutus.

While the only weld designed to be airtight, is the gas beam and its multiple welds, it is possible and likely that all the welds are airtight. On the top surface which gets really hot, since the frame is sealed, is it likely to explode like the Sanke keggle story?

Has anyone drilled pressure relief holes into their brutus?

TD

 

[Lonnie Mac]

On a slightly different note, but also relating to the Brutus builds...

I plan NOT to route the wires internally - mostly because I want to get the cart welded up first before I plan the wiring part, and since that means I'll be doing the drilling, no thanks...

Well, after reading the sticky about exploding keggles, due to bottom rim not having any perforations, and pressure build-up, I was curious about the Brutus.

While the only weld designed to be airtight, is the gas beam and its multiple welds, it is possible and likely that all the welds are airtight. On the top surface which gets really hot, since the frame is sealed, is it likely to explode like the Sanke keggle story?

Has anyone drilled pressure relief holes into their brutus?

TD

Actually I never completely welded the bottom welds on the upper surface! You could probably see that in the vids I just posted last night in the general beer... I always told myself that I would get around to it but by then I was brewing on it already! And the dang frame is plenty strong enough anyway... If you are concerned, drill a .250 hole on the bottom of each member on the upper heat surface.

 

[TrickyDick]

Regarding usage of Blichmann Boilermaker Kettles on the BRUTUS with the stepped bottom.

With the 12 inch squares for resting the kettles on, and 16 inch square including 2 inch tubing size (and noting 2 inch spacing between the next tubing which you could halve) give max diameter kettle of just under 17" not counting handles (those handles face front to back, not side to side), or lip on the rim, without having the kettles touching each other. (I measured my Keggle diameter at 15.5 as a reference)

According the Blichmann website,

Size Side Wall Diameter Base Step Diameter Thermo Stem
10 Gal 13.8 10.9 4.0 Gal
15 Gal 15.7 12.8 6.5 Gal
20 Gal 17.7 14.8 8.25 Gal

The 20 Gallon is out - kettles are 17.7 diameter

The 15 Gallon is ok in diameter 15.7, but the base step is 12.8 - I would worry that with only .4 inches of contact on each side, that the weight of a full kettle would deform or indent the base, and perhaps if this happened in the Mash Tun, that the mash screen might not seal correctly. Also would worry the vessel might fall or tip over if budged slightly and the base step slipped towards one side.

The 10 gallon looks like it'll fit fine. My current Mash tun is 10 gallons and I've never maxed it out. Could still probably brew even the biggest beers I would want by using a thicker mash, or a double mash or simply adding some DME. Switching to a recirculated mash however, I may want to run a thinner mash than before. That being said, I might also like to try some 10 gallon batches just because, and would also rather have a 15 gallon Boil Kettle to avoid boilovers.

Could use my existing kettle, but the rounded bottom has always been a peeve to me. Also, would be too tall to reach into at the default rig height of 33 3/8 when counting the casters & sockets (5 3/8) plus the 28 stock height in plans (either of the 10 or 15 gallon sizes would work fine for me). Also, the 4.0 gallon thermometer stem on the 10 gallon kettle is fine. The 6.5 gallon thermo stem on the 15 gallon kettle would be difficult to work with when brewing 5 gallon batches.

In light of all of these variables and trade-off, what have the rest of you chosen for your vessels? I see plenty of keggles out there, a quite a few Boilermakers as well.

Welcoming any suggestions or advice here.

Thanks!

TD

 

[Irrenarzt]

Just change the spacing of the upper cross members as per the pots you buy. I have the boilermakers and I just changed the spacing to fit the 15's (I use these for MT/HLT). It only takes a slight position change as I recall. Piece of cake...

And by the way, the boliermaker thermostems are indeed a bit high for 5 gallon batches but I mostly do 5 gallon batches anyway. Once your love probes are calibrated and set, you won't need the boilermaker thermometers.

 

[TrickyDick]

That's great!

For some strange reason I was thinking that the thermo ports were the sight-glass.
Yeah, their use will be essentially none, once I've got the thermocouples going.

Would you mind measuring your setup as far as the spacing goes?
Did you move them closer together I assume?

Thanks!

Are you also fermenting in one of the kettles when you're done?

TD

TD

 

[vincemash]

No HD or Lowes won't have it but 8020 will. Here's a link:

http://www.8020.net/

All you need to do is get the Brutus plans and in there they have a cut list. Buy 1.5" or 2" for the main parts of the frame. I went with 3" x 1.5" top bars to better support 3 pots worth of hot boiling water and wort. It's robust, even when hot. You could put Kevin Smith up there and it would hold.

this 80/20 T slot stuff looks like a great clean economical no-weld option

Can casters be fitted into the bottoms easily?

anyone draw up any plans for a rig using this stuff?, looking for a 2 tier design myself using 3 keggles

 

[Irrenarzt]

Tricky, I can measure but can't do it right away. I recall the 20 fits with the original Lonnie spec of 12" and I seem to think I moved the HLT/MT stations down to around 10.5" but not quite sure. All I know is they fit fine. I tend to move them a bit up towards me as the operator to keep the ball valves from getting too hot. Seems to work just fine.

Edit: forgot to say NO I don't use a kettle for fermenting. I need the kettles for brewing so I can't let one out of the rotation. I use a Blichmann conical, a sanke keg and about 8 buckets. I have a few glass carboys as well but I use these for sours and they are in my closet most of the year.

Vince yes mine has casters and it's super easy as the t-slot has a center hole you can thread a bolt right into. I can easily roll it round with the casters unlocked, even loaded but my practice is to set it locked and not roll it while brewing. Just use the standard cut list from Lonnie's plans but add a foot to the front beam as this extends out to mount your control panel on. It not a big stretch to improvise Lonnies plans using 8020. If you are really mechanically challenged, you can fax them Lonnies drawings and they can draw it up and send you all the parts ready to assemble but that will typically cost a bit more. Since I had a bunch lying around, I just did it myself.

 

[Irrenarzt]

Some pics for that ferret guy on page 2 or so. No joining plates are needed with 8020. The hardware they sell cinches up real nice. They sell joining plates but are overkill, even under thermal and mechanical loads for this application.

Gas beam terminus with pressure gauge

HLT/Control panel

MT

Schitty iphone pic of Therminator but you can see the QD's

ASCO wiring conduit

Hop sack holder (don't use PVC fellas, it's ghetto and toxic)

updated ball valves

Phil and Bobby on Friday night for those who know

 

[insaneferret]

Nice rig - i was pricing out an 8020 system, but as it turns out its the same price to buy the steel and a welder, and at the end of the day, I'll have a welder, i'll have my system built by the end of the month, getting the steel today

 

[Irrenarzt]

Yeah it's only cost effective if you have it in stock already. I'm pretty much out now so I need to buy more as I'm gonna get around to building a grain mill stand one of these days.

 

[TrickyDick]

Irenarzt-

You didn't change the spacing of the Front-to-Rear of 12", just the side-to-side cross-bar spacing?

TD

 

[Ricand]

I'm just finishing up a double build with Ubermick. +1 on the gas beam, that gave us the biggest problems. If you aren't doing it out of pipe, seal the ends and pressure test the whole thing BEFORE welding it up to the frame. I had pin hole leaks into the cross members at the ends. I ended up cutting it off, capping the ends and then welding it back on. We shortened it a bit, since we are both shorter than Lonnie's armpit. We used 16 gauge stainless tubing for most of it and the 11 gauge Lonnie used for the gas beam. Ubermick has his set up for propane with banjo burners, mine is set up with impinged jet burners and natural gas. If you want the impinged jet burner, I got mine from http://www.topfoodservice.com (search jet burner) and they were ok. Trust me, all you need is the 6" version. The jet burners are easier to mount, but louder than the banjos. We haven't done a boil comparison yet.

 

[michaeltrego]

Sweet setup Irrenarzt! Totally jealous.

Off topic but pertaining to your last pic -- you got the Unbroken Chain that I was hoping for a few weeks ago in NH. We had a surprising Born Cross-Eyed, and nice Scarlet Fire among others. The boys are tight - smoking hot shows!

FYI - you can grab the audio for all the dates at: http://www.archive.org

 

[Irrenarzt]

Irenarzt-

You didn't change the spacing of the Front-to-Rear of 12", just the side-to-side cross-bar spacing?

TD

That's right, side to side only and it easily holds 3 full pots. The pots will not bend, kink or fold, nor will your false bottoms no longer seal. Other pots are likely better fitting on Lonnies original design as they have a wider bottom without the step but then you won't have the Blichmann false bottoms which are the best in the business IMO. Your brewhouse efficiency is almost too high and you will have to learn to adjust recipes accordingly.

Don't overthink it, it works great.

 

[Irrenarzt]

Sweet setup Irrenarzt! Totally jealous.

Off topic but pertaining to your last pic -- you got the Unbroken Chain that I was hoping for a few weeks ago in NH. We had a surprising Born Cross-Eyed, and nice Scarlet Fire among others. The boys are tight - smoking hot shows!

FYI - you can grab the audio for all the dates at: http://www.archive.org

Yeah I've got the SBD's coming from a friend who bought the whole tour. Thanks for the tip. I stream the archive.org aud's when I'm at work.

The unbroken > shakedown > short drum solo > king solomons marbles was fantastic.

 

[Ricand]

I'm just finishing up a double build with Ubermick. +1 on the gas beam, that gave us the biggest problems. If you aren't doing it out of pipe, seal the ends and pressure test the whole thing BEFORE welding it up to the frame. I had pin hole leaks into the cross members at the ends. I ended up cutting it off, capping the ends and then welding it back on. We shortened it a bit, since we are both shorter than Lonnie's armpit. We used 16 gauge stainless tubing for most of it and the 11 gauge Lonnie used for the gas beam. Ubermick has his set up for propane with banjo burners, mine is set up with impinged jet burners and natural gas. If you want the impinged jet burner, I got mine from http://www.topfoodservice.com (search jet burner) and they were ok. Trust me, all you need is the 6" version. The jet burners are easier to mount, but louder than the banjos. We haven't done a boil comparison yet.

 

[TrickyDick]

That's right, side to side only and it easily holds 3 full pots. The pots will not bend, kink or fold, nor will your false bottoms no longer seal. Other pots are likely better fitting on Lonnies original design as they have a wider bottom without the step but then you won't have the Blichmann false bottoms which are the best in the business IMO. Your brewhouse efficiency is almost too high and you will have to learn to adjust recipes accordingly.

Don't overthink it, it works great.

Thanks! Really means a lot for your advice on this project.

I was really admiring your hops sack holder! I had previously used the "hopstopper" but had problems losing siphon. I've switched to hop sacks loose in the boil, but I like this very much. Can you explain how you built this? Do you use brewing software and if so, which one and what utilization factor you use with your hop sack holder.

I like the ASCO conduit for the wiring. I went with Honeywell Valves and a spark ignition setup like Korndog uses. Hope I'm happy with the jet burners in combination with the Honeywells (or else there will be a new listing on the classifieds!)

TD

 

[Irrenarzt]

The hop sack holder came out great. I'm actually in the process of making a second one that dips a bit further in the boil for a bit more utilization. It's pretty easy as it's just a 4" OD thinwall (~0.063") with three 1/4" stainless rods at 120 degrees welded in place. I have a buddy who welds and it literally took him 3 minutes to weld all three in place. You could also use all thread but I prefer the cleaner look of the smooth rods. There are washers welded onto the ends to keep it from falling off if it is accidentally bumped in the boil.

I used a hopstopper for about a year and it worked great for awhile but then it started getting jammed up with the higher pellet loads I've been utilizing lately so something had to be done and the hop sack has proven to be a better solution. I don't know the utilization as I'm only using the brewpal iphone app. I don't have a working PC laptop but if I did I'd use beersmith. I have a hackintosh mini 10V so the only thing I can run is Beer Tools or set up a VM with XP and run Beersmith that way but I haven't gotten around to it.

Your Honeywells should work fine if you can fit the igniters into the tab on the mini jet burners. I tapped mine for a bulkhead fitting (7/16-20 iirc) and they work great but it's a manual thing to get lit. Once lit, it kicksass.

 

[TrickyDick]

Burner Height Issues


Steel cut today, weld out rest of week.

Burners I got are 10 tips. What is the spacing between the bottoms of the kettle and the burners (from tips or from bottom of ring casting)?? Once installed, its going to be hard to change...


TD

 

[schristian619]

Can't help with your question, but where did you find 10 tip low pressure burners? All I've been able to find are the high pressure versions, or 23/32 tip low pressure.

 

[TrickyDick]

Bought the burners at shopperschoice.com

TD

 

[Lonnie Mac]

Burner Height Issues


Steel cut today, weld out rest of week.

Burners I got are 10 tips. What is the spacing between the bottoms of the kettle and the burners (from tips or from bottom of ring casting)?? Once installed, its going to be hard to change...


TD

If you are building from my plans, and you truly have the ten tip low pressure burners, then my tips are 2.25" from the bottom of the pot bottom.

If you are not sure, it would be a simple task to set up a burner on a test bed of some sort and fire one of those bad boys off and make sure...

 

[schristian619]

The ones at shopperschoice.com say they are for high pressure only. Do I need anything besides whats in the plans to use these? I would really prefer to use the jet burners over the banjos, if for no other reason than I like the look of them better, plus I don;t have to rig up a support.

 

[TrickyDick]

Can't really answer the question about the high pressure stuff. BUT when I ordered mine, there was a drop-down type dialog box that let me pick propane or NatGas. I forget the specifics right now, but I do believe my burners are intended to Low pressure Propane gas.

As far as the burner height, the answer is, YES I am using Lonnie's plans.

My friend, who runs the company that employs the welder, was thinking, that, since I ordered 2 of the control panel 12x24 sheets instead of a different sheet of steel to protect the pumps, that he could use a piece of "diamond plate" steel to cover the pumps and take the second Stainless sheet and make 4 inch wide strips that act as a stirrup for the burner, welded to the frame at the top, and upon which the burners rest.

A 4 inch drop plus the 2 inch thick tubular steel is a 6 inch drop. The burner tips are about 2.25 inches from the bottom of the cast "ring" of the burner. Add another 2.25 inches and that is 4.5 inches. Minus the the 6 inches means I need 1.5 inches of shim to boost the burners up a bit if they are really going to be resting on the support "stirrup". This does lend some flexibility in my design, particularly if I use flex tube to supply propane to the burners. I wonder if there is an easy way to weld a bracket on the SS "stirrups" running front to back so that I can more easily adjust burner height perhaps with a friction screw or something (like the neurosurgeons use to keep people's head in those shoulderpad HALO harnesses).

Anyway, probably making it more complicated that it needs to be. Thanks Lonnie for the 2.25 Spec!

One other issue I have is making the control panel. I often let the boil run unsupervised with a few drops of FermCap to prevent boil-overs , even under windy conditions (I have a flame shroud on my current burner). I'd like to keep this trend going with the brutus and the spark ignition modules will serve the same purpose, though NOT for the boil kettle. GOing to need a shroud for that burner... Anyway, I was thinking about how to seal the front flat SS control panel. I can only think of using automotive gasket material and applying a box to the back with screws....

I need to draw up a pencil & paper plan for the control panel for the shop to cut out the panels. Using the same basic Lonnie design, but using different temp controllers with larger cutouts. 45mm square holes for these....

Thanks for all the support on this site!~ Its been great!

TD

 

[Irrenarzt]

I measured 4" from the top of the burner ring to the pot bottom.

 

[Ricand]

Can't help with your question, but where did you find 10 tip low pressure burners? All I've been able to find are the high pressure versions, or 23/32 tip low pressure.

I bought mine at topfoodservices.com and ordered the pilot lights with it. They were around $5 and included the 1/4" compression elbow. The 10 jet ones aren't drilled and tapped for the pilot, but it's pretty easy to do. The guy there Jao gets really agitated when ordering and kinda yells at you that the pilots won't work. YOU NO LISTEN!!! NO TAPPED!! Stick to your guns.

 

[Irrenarzt]

He no love you long time?