Bringing Costs Down...

[Owly055]

I was not able to malt my own barley at a cost lower than buying in bulk. The barley I started with was about 40 cents a pound but my energy costs for drying & kilning were on the order of 70 to 80 cents a pound. The largest batch I could feasibly malt & kiln was about 18 lb. Many of the batches I tried either became moldy while sprouting or did not yield well. Results were by no means predictable on my small scale. It was a fun experiment, however.

40 cents a pound is a bit high.........The difference between on farm price and retail price in the city is obviously considerable........ one the order of 4x. I think your energy costs are way out of line. A typical home malting dryer uses a box with screens and a light bulb, and pale two row requires minimal kilning time. 70 to 80 cents a pound is preposterous. Pale two row is kilned at about 180F for 3-5 hours after being dried. Supposing 10 pounds of malt in a 180 deg oven... It doesn't even remotely add up to that kind of figure unless you are paying an absolutely outrageous amount for power. I frankly don't buy these numbers at all, and I suspect the people who are home malting would quickly challenge them also.

I'm paying 40 cents a pound for pale two row............ And you are telling me that it costs 70 to 80 cents a pound just to dry and kiln it........... Get real!!

H.W.

 

[Hamaki]

40 cents a pound is a bit high.........The difference between on farm price and retail price in the city is obviously considerable........ one the order of 4x. I think your energy costs are way out of line. A typical home malting dryer uses a box with screens and a light bulb, and pale two row requires minimal kilning time. 70 to 80 cents a pound is preposterous. Pale two row is kilned at about 180F for 3-5 hours after being dried. Supposing 10 pounds of malt in a 180 deg oven... It doesn't even remotely add up to that kind of figure unless you are paying an absolutely outrageous amount for power. I frankly don't buy these numbers at all, and I suspect the people who are home malting would quickly challenge them also.

I'm paying 40 cents a pound for pale two row............ And you are telling me that it costs 70 to 80 cents a pound just to dry and kiln it........... Get real!!

H.W.

I didn't mean to insult you in any way, just relaying my experience. We happened to have on hand few sacks of barley for which we paid roughly $20 each. It was organic and intended for seeding pasture and we bought it from a feed store. If I lived in an area where barley is grown and had the connections I'm sure I could have found a better price. We didn't use them for the pasture so I did the malting experiment.

Electric rates are high where I live and each month our usage goes into the tier that costs 31 cents per kilowatt hour. Since the drying & kilning is in addition to all other use, I assumed that cost in my calculations.

My first batch of sprouted barley I tried using a food dehydrator. It was not effective and in fact was ruined by the process. Loss of both barley and the dehydrator. I'm not considering the costs associated with those losses.

We had a large plywood crate, about 2' wide, 4' deep and 7' tall (free). I built some removable screens (I didn't include the materials cost for these but it was something like $12 to $15) to provide enough area to spread the sprouted barley over to dry in a reasonable time. I had a 1500 watt space heater with a fan & thermostat. Inside the converted crate it maintained a constant 120 - 125 degrees while providing updraft to remove moisture laden air through the screened exhaust vent. On average, the heater remained on roughly 3/4 of the time, based on my observations, and the typical time required to dry was 36 hours. A couple of batches during damp weather needed 48 - 56 hours to dry completely.

I'm not sure how much propane my oven uses, so I won't consider any cost there.

Another thing I thought was interesting, every time I malted the result weighed almost exactly 85% of the original barley weight. My thought was that this a factor of the %moisture in the original barley and the weight loss from removing the root hairs after drying.

Doing the math and assuming 36 hours the cost is 69.75 cents a pound of barley or 82 cents a pound for the resultant malt. Realistically, I rarely started with 18 pounds, I usually started with an amount to yield what I'd need for a five gallon batch of beer, driving my per pound cost up further.

Can it be done cheaper? Certainly, otherwise commercial producers would not be able to sell at the current price. It was fun to do but, as mentioned before, I could not beat the cost or match the consistency of commercial malt. If you can, my hat is off to you. The best price I've found for base malt is about $38 a sack; you have a line on $20 malt (or free, depending on circumstances). Again, you win! :rockin:

 

[Owly055]

I apologize for coming on a bit strong..... The last thing we need to do is discourage people from experimenting with home malting. There are numerous ways to greatly reduce those costs. For example It is possible in many places to dry the grain using ambient temperatures outdoors..... sun drying it..... In fact that is the way maltsters of old did it. The cost of maintaining an oven at a constant 180 deg for a few hours is trivial. Let's look at how it can be done economically...... this thread after all is about bringing costs down.

One should never use a seed grain for human consumption........ Seed grain is treated with a fungicide normally. In the past the treatment was mercury based... I don't know what it is now. The treat used around here for seed grain contains a red dye to prevent people from using it for livestock feed.


H.W.

I didn't mean to insult you in any way, just relaying my experience. We happened to have on hand few sacks of barley for which we paid roughly $20 each. It was organic and intended for seeding pasture and we bought it from a feed store. If I lived in an area where barley is grown and had the connections I'm sure I could have found a better price. We didn't use them for the pasture so I did the malting experiment.

Electric rates are high where I live and each month our usage goes into the tier that costs 31 cents per kilowatt hour. Since the drying & kilning is in addition to all other use, I assumed that cost in my calculations.

My first batch of sprouted barley I tried using a food dehydrator. It was not effective and in fact was ruined by the process. Loss of both barley and the dehydrator. I'm not considering the costs associated with those losses.

We had a large plywood crate, about 2' wide, 4' deep and 7' tall (free). I built some removable screens (I didn't include the materials cost for these but it was something like $12 to $15) to provide enough area to spread the sprouted barley over to dry in a reasonable time. I had a 1500 watt space heater with a fan & thermostat. Inside the converted crate it maintained a constant 120 - 125 degrees while providing updraft to remove moisture laden air through the screened exhaust vent. On average, the heater remained on roughly 3/4 of the time, based on my observations, and the typical time required to dry was 36 hours. A couple of batches during damp weather needed 48 - 56 hours to dry completely.

I'm not sure how much propane my oven uses, so I won't consider any cost there.

Another thing I thought was interesting, every time I malted the result weighed almost exactly 85% of the original barley weight. My thought was that this a factor of the %moisture in the original barley and the weight loss from removing the root hairs after drying.

Doing the math and assuming 36 hours the cost is 69.75 cents a pound of barley or 82 cents a pound for the resultant malt. Realistically, I rarely started with 18 pounds, I usually started with an amount to yield what I'd need for a five gallon batch of beer, driving my per pound cost up further.

Can it be done cheaper? Certainly, otherwise commercial producers would not be able to sell at the current price. It was fun to do but, as mentioned before, I could not beat the cost or match the consistency of commercial malt. If you can, my hat is off to you. The best price I've found for base malt is about $38 a sack; you have a line on $20 malt (or free, depending on circumstances). Again, you win! :rockin:

 

[TheMattTrain]

When I'm trying to cut costs, I will typically make maltier tasting beers so I don't spend so much on hops (that's where I feel like I incur most of my cost). For instance, go for an Irish Red or Pale Ale instead of that real big IPA you want. I also just pitched onto a yeast cake for the first time (10% IIPA onto a yeast cake of a 6% IPA) so I didn't need to spend money on yeast for this batch.

Things I'm considering doing to save money that I haven't done yet... wash yeast, buy hops in bulk, and create yeast starters.

 

[Owly055]

When I'm trying to cut costs, I will typically make maltier tasting beers so I don't spend so much on hops (that's where I feel like I incur most of my cost). For instance, go for an Irish Red or Pale Ale instead of that real big IPA you want. I also just pitched onto a yeast cake for the first time (10% IIPA onto a yeast cake of a 6% IPA) so I didn't need to spend money on yeast for this batch.

Things I'm considering doing to save money that I haven't done yet... wash yeast, buy hops in bulk, and create yeast starters.

Hops put the sunshine in Beer......... I've made a few beers under 20 IBUs, but most are in the 30's and 40's.... or more. Using a small amount of something like Summit or Magnum at 60min can give that hop kick, while very late boil additions carry through with flavor and aroma. I'm not set up to whirlpool, and lack a counterflow or plate chiller... or I would use a hopback. My typical brew runs about an ounce.... which is a significant expense for a 2.5 gallon brew..... I've started buying bulk, and shopping for good deals. An ounce of hops from Yakima Valley Hops ends up at less than a dollar......but I buy quantity which reduces freight significantly. The hops they have on sale often are hops I've never used before... sometimes never heard of before, so it adds an element of adventure to brewing....... an element I like, as I seldom do the same thing twice, and never follow recipes.

H.W.

 

[aprichman]

Hops put the sunshine in Beer......... I've made a few beers under 20 IBUs, but most are in the 30's and 40's.... or more. Using a small amount of something like Summit or Magnum at 60min can give that hop kick, while very late boil additions carry through with flavor and aroma. I'm not set up to whirlpool, and lack a counterflow or plate chiller... or I would use a hopback. My typical brew runs about an ounce.... which is a significant expense for a 2.5 gallon brew..... I've started buying bulk, and shopping for good deals. An ounce of hops from Yakima Valley Hops ends up at less than a dollar......but I buy quantity which reduces freight significantly. The hops they have on sale often are hops I've never used before... sometimes never heard of before, so it adds an element of adventure to brewing....... an element I like, as I seldom do the same thing twice, and never follow recipes.

H.W.

Another 2.5 gallon batch brewer here

I just placed an order from HopsDirect for 1lb of Azacca hops for ~$14.50 shipped which comes out to ~$0.90 per ounce. Definitely cheaper than paying $2 per ounce at my LHBS.

Also picked up a 5 gallon big mouth bubbler to make harvesting from the yeast cake easier. If I can get 3 brews from each yeast packet that will bring my costs down ~$2-3 per batch.

Also just switched to all grain which brings my malt bill from ~$10.20 to ~$6.70 which saves me ~$3.50 per batch

Reusing yeast, buying hops in bulk, and going all grain my costs for a 2.5 gallon batch are ~$10.50 ($9 ingredients + $1.50 for the RO water) which yields 24+ beers @ ~$0.44 per 12oz.

In Oregon the cheapest decent beer is the Trader Joes house brands which sell for $1 a bottle with a $0.05 deposit. Decent beer is usually ~$1.40 per beer (with deposit). Usually my wife and I will go through ~10 6 packs a month so brewing saves ~$45 per month. Of course this is evaluating my time as being "free" - that $45 saving probably takes 20+ hours of work throughout the month :cross:

 

[TheMattTrain]

Hops put the sunshine in Beer......... I've made a few beers under 20 IBUs, but most are in the 30's and 40's.... or more. Using a small amount of something like Summit or Magnum at 60min can give that hop kick, while very late boil additions carry through with flavor and aroma. I'm not set up to whirlpool, and lack a counterflow or plate chiller... or I would use a hopback. My typical brew runs about an ounce.... which is a significant expense for a 2.5 gallon brew..... I've started buying bulk, and shopping for good deals. An ounce of hops from Yakima Valley Hops ends up at less than a dollar......but I buy quantity which reduces freight significantly. The hops they have on sale often are hops I've never used before... sometimes never heard of before, so it adds an element of adventure to brewing....... an element I like, as I seldom do the same thing twice, and never follow recipes.

H.W.

My point about less hops is more in relation to the way I brew. I do 5 gallon AG batches. If I'm making an IPA, 6oz is about the least amount of hops I'd put in it and be satisfied. Alternately, I could brew an Amber ale with 2oz and be happy with it.

Luckily my wife is very understanding and is cool with me spending a little extra to make "my" beer. My restrictions are mostly self-imposed. I just spent $60 on a batch, so my next one will more than likely be of a $25-$30 variety.

 

[Magnus314]

Currently, with extract and partial grain brewing, and bottling to 32oz EZ cap bottles, I am seeing a per bottle cost of around $10.

$10 a quart?!?

That's $200 per 5 gallon batch!

What the heck kind of beer are you making?

 

[Jim311]

I'm getting ready to brew my second batch so I decided to do the math on what it realistically cost me to brew my last batch, excluding the bottles themselves which I considered a capital investment. I brewed an extract IPA that came with my beer brewing kit that was given to me as a gift. The ingredients ended up costing 47 bucks. I spent about 6 bucks on water and maybe 5 bucks on propane. That should bring me up to 58 dollars and I brewed like 53 bottles of beer. Around here a commercial microbrewed IPA is at least 9 if not 10 dollars for six cans of beer. I paid $1.10 for each of my IPAs. I'd be paying more like 1.66 if I bought a commercially brewed IPA like I'd otherwise be drinking. Hell I can't buy a 12 pack of cheap beer for 10 bucks anymore it doesn't seem. That'd be nearly 85 cents a beer even for a case of PBR. I figure I'm drinking better beer for about the same money as the cheap **** and I'm having fun doing it. Also, my local home brew shop offers other kits to brew lower gravity stuff for like 30 dollars, so I figure if I want to brew something a little lighter for summer it will cost me even less. I figure I can afford an extra 75 bucks every few weeks to keep myself drinking quality beer. I'm really impressed with how well my first batch turned out. I can only see it getting better from here.. hopefully.

 

[fimpster]

I can only see it getting better from here.. hopefully.

Congrats on the fist batch! It will get even better.

And on topic, it will also get cheaper when you move to all-grain.

 

[Owly055]

People who get into home brewing in the expectation of a net savings in time and money are like people who get married in the expectation of getting more sex for less time and money....

 

[corycorycory09]

I also know that right now I need to buy bottles for all my beer, and that is running about $3.33 per bottle.

Just buy some 12 packs of craft beer (not twist top) and clean out the bottles. I've never bought a bottle that wasn't filled with beer originally.

 

[stillbillmd]

Just buy some 12 packs of craft beer (not twist top) and clean out the bottles. I've never bought a bottle that wasn't filled with beer originally.

This is what I do, too.

1. Buy the beer
2. Drink the beer
3. Rinse directly after drinking
4. Store them in a cabinet
5. When I've got a couple of dozen, I'll boil them 4 or 5 at a time. Fill them with warm water before dropping into the boil. Peel the labels as best I can.
6. Store them in a cabinet
7. On bottling day, sanitize and fill
8. Go to #2

I'd been saving non-twist brown bottles for a while in anticipation that I'd start brewing, so when I did start I had a few hundred. You're gonna use about 10 bottles per gallon of beer so, if you're brewing a lot, you can burn through them pretty quickly.

I also have friends that will save bottles for me. If they're recycling anyway, it's no biggie for them to store them in a separate bag or box.

 

[Kblandfo]

by used gear and bottles

 

[gwapogorilla]

I was NEVER of the opinion that brewing my own beer would make it less expensive, but I really wasn't expecting the costs to be so high.

Currently, with extract and partial grain brewing, and bottling to 32oz EZ cap bottles, I am seeing a per bottle cost of around $10.

Now, I live in the middle of nowhere (1 hour drive to nearest brewing retailer) and I know that ordering everything on line is 20% of my cost (shipping)...$2 a bottle.

I also know that right now I need to buy bottles for all my beer, and that is running about $3.33 per bottle. This will drop significantly when I build up a good store and rotation of bottles.

BUT what would be some of your recommendations for saving cost?

Is Wyeast worth the $5 increase over dry for instance?

What is the best and least expensive online retailer?

What are some tricks you have used to save money?

Personally, I didn't buy bottles. I bought beer, drank it, and saved the bottles. I did make a trip to the recycling center a couple of times and paid 5 cents for bottles. But, you know what your after there...so continue on. Personally, I would not put the cost of the bottles into the figure of your beer batch.

Save money by buying/building your own equipment. Get a grain mill and mash tun and large kettle to go full volume boils. Then, buy bulk grain. Not having to go to the LHBS will save money on gas.

Also, learn how to wash and freeze yeast...that will save you $7 per batch.

I buy my hops from Yakima Valley. Where as most people pay $3-$4 per oz. for hops, I have them for $1.50 in my freezer.

If you need to make a trip to the LHBS, plan ahead. Buy what you will need for the next 3 or 4 brew sessions.

 

[soccerdad]

I apologize if this gets off topic. You all got me thinking about Hops By The Pound which I have never done. So I did a usage analysis and was not surprised to find that I really should buy Cascade, Centennial, EKG anf Fuggles by the pound. A tiny bit surprised to see that maybe I should buy Simcoe in quantity. A solid *maybe* for Chinook, Columbus, Northern Brewer and Williamette. So where is a good place to buy? Nikobrew is certainly one option - where else is good ??

 

[nutty_gnome]

http://www.farmhousebrewingsupply.com/ is a sponsor here. There are others.
4 ounce packs are ideal for me - A good balance of volume, variety, and price.

 

[rodwha]

We have a vacuum sealer and I keep thinking about buying hops in bulk, but I don't like unknowns and so I just keep buying 1 and 2 oz packs from MoreBeer. Once in a while I get the 8 oz hop bag.

I kept and cleaned out a couple of their foil LME bags that would certainly keep out light...

 

[IslandLizard]

I apologize if this gets off topic. You all got me thinking about Hops By The Pound which I have never done. So I did a usage analysis and was not surprised to find that I really should buy Cascade, Centennial, EKG anf Fuggles by the pound. A tiny bit surprised to see that maybe I should buy Simcoe in quantity. A solid *maybe* for Chinook, Columbus, Northern Brewer and Williamette. So where is a good place to buy? Nikobrew is certainly one option - where else is good ??

HopsDirect
Yakimavalleyhops
LabelPeelers
Nikobrew
Adventures in Homebrewing

Some of these places have a relatively hefty minimum shipping fee, that only becomes attractive when ordering multiple bags, like 4-8 pounds in total. HopsDirect (and others) have clearance sales from time to time.

There's a guy on eBay who sells hops in multiple pound lots. Good seller from what I've heard.

The best time to buy them is right after harvest, some through pre-orders.

I leave them in the thick plastic bags they come in, and store them in the freezer. When opening, snip a corner off, dispense the hops, fold the flap over a few times, squeezing as much air out as possible and tape it shut. Then back into the freezer at 0F or -4F. 2 year old hops are still fine that way. I compensate 10-15% AA loss per year.

 

[Chadwick]

On the reusing bottles thing, I have found that soaking the bottles in the kitchen sink with a big ol' scoop of generic dollar store oxygen cleaner will both sanitize the bottles and make the labels simply fall off. It's a 1-2 punch method that takes care of everything. Just be sure to rinse them out real good. After that I put them in the dishwasher and set it on sanitize. I've never had a problem with doing things this way and it is super simple with very little labor involved.

 

[rodwha]

I did have issues doing that as it left a powdery white chalky calcium/lime film inside the bottles. I then had to soak them in vinegar to remove that. Now I fill them with water prior to the Oxyclean label removal.

 

[Owly055]

I apologize if this gets off topic. You all got me thinking about Hops By The Pound which I have never done. So I did a usage analysis and was not surprised to find that I really should buy Cascade, Centennial, EKG anf Fuggles by the pound. A tiny bit surprised to see that maybe I should buy Simcoe in quantity. A solid *maybe* for Chinook, Columbus, Northern Brewer and Williamette. So where is a good place to buy? Nikobrew is certainly one option - where else is good ??

My favorite supplier is Yakima Valley Hops........ Prices are good, selection is excellent, as is service. I know what I'm getting and that it is stored properly, weather it's this year's crop or last years. I normally buy only pellets.

You can use hops wastefully or you can use them efficiently......... more hops do not necessarily make better beer...... The right amounts of the right hops at the right time is the key.

H.W.

 

[BobBailey]

On the subject of hops, I have found that a lot can be saved on hops by the techniques you use. First wort hopping gives you a few more IBUs and also contributes the equivalent of a 20 minute flavor addition. I have also been using post-boil steeping which gives you bittering, flavor and aroma. In many cases between these 2 techniques I save a couple of ounces of hops along with reducing the beer wasted due to trub. That can add up to a 4 or 5 buck savings for a batch.

Bob

 

[DNKDUKE]

Chadwick put it SPOT ON...

This has to be a hobby first and save you money second....well at least for me it is.
It's way too much work to go through for saving some bucks on a case of beer.
Be honest with yourself, if you really cannot afford to buy a case of beer - you're doing something wrong.
Not being unsympathetic - just practical.

 

[KartRacer54]

Chadwick put it SPOT ON...

This has to be a hobby first and save you money second....well at least for me it is.
It's way too much work to go through for saving some bucks on a case of beer.
Be honest with yourself, if you really cannot afford to buy a case of beer - you're doing something wrong.
Not being unsympathetic - just practical.

Agree! Never have had a hobby that saved me money like this hobby. That is comparing quality of product. Otherwise they probably still sell "BEER"

 

[Owly055]

On the subject of hops, I have found that a lot can be saved on hops by the techniques you use. First wort hopping gives you a few more IBUs and also contributes the equivalent of a 20 minute flavor addition. I have also been using post-boil steeping which gives you bittering, flavor and aroma. In many cases between these 2 techniques I save a couple of ounces of hops along with reducing the beer wasted due to trub. That can add up to a 4 or 5 buck savings for a batch.

Bob

I nearly always do a FWH with my brews..........


H.W.

 

[Owly055]

I just bought 105 lbs of malted barley today......... I ordered a 55 pound sack of Dark Munich, from the LHBS, and picked up a 50 pound sack of Malteurope 2 row from my friend who owns a microbrewery ($23.50 .......... the price went up due to a poor crop this year). This is his actual cost. I felt a dollar a pound for Dark Munich from the LHBS was a phenomenally good price considering the retail source. But I DID order it, I do know the girl who does the homebrew part of the business, and I'll get it in about two weeks. Out of the bin it's $1.75. They were unfortunately out of wheat malt and very low on rye malt.... both of which I wanted, so I'll have to defer that particular project until I get back. It's 80 miles away.


H.W.

 

[paperairplane]

Here's a real time saver - don't remove labels!

 

[1977Brewer]

Here's a real time saver - don't remove labels!

"This is really dark for Modelo"

 

[rodwha]

"Here's a real time saver - don't remove labels!"

That's something I don't care much to see along with reused bottle caps. And I've seen them both (at the same time). If you are cutting that many corners what else are you doing or not doing? It's a bit off putting.

And I have some beer bottled with labels still attached as I hadn't accounted for the number I'd need and gave too many away without removing the labels from my newer bottles. But I don't care for that.

It took me less than 10 minutes to get warm water and Oxyclean in to my bucket to soak the bottles. The labels, depending on brand, usually come off on their own leaving me with potentially just needing to remove the glue if it's present. Maybe another 10-15 mins for another day. It may save a little time but it makes for poor presentation IMO.