Brewing water help! High PH.

[ny101]

Hi peoples,

I just got my water report back from my new house. I have been using bottled water previously, but I am moving towards using my well water. I have attached my water report for my well water and I need some help adjusting for a pale ale.

I plugged everything into brewing water, and it appears at first glance, that I would only need to play with the PH, as everything else seems to be within the green zone. One problem I see it that since my PH is ~8, it would take 5ml of Lactic Acid for 4 gallons of sparge, and another 4ml of Lactic acid for the mash.

I think this approaches the level of Lactic acid that will produce sour flavors. Does anyone have any input on whether or not this would be a problem? I don't really want sour Pale Ales.

If using this much lactic acid is a problem, is there some other approach I can use to get my water into the 5.6 range?

Thanks for any and all inpuT!!!

 

[Homercidal]

Well, you have fairly high alkalinity. It's not uncommon to need acid to lower the pH. You have a good amount of Calcium, but a bit more won't hurt. Adding some Calcium Sulfate will raise calcium and Sulfate, while lowering pH some.

Really 4 ml is not very much. I don't think it's enough to affect taste, but I've never used it or looked into it's use. I use Phosphoric acid as it's practically tasteless at any amount used in brewing.

Your water would be better suited for stouts than for pale beers, but you could do it with some acid or you could dilute your water with RO to reduce the amount of acid needed (while needing more of the other minerals though...)

 

[hindey19]

I've got a very similar profile, and from what I've been reading for the past few days, and from strong suggestions of other more experienced water chemists, it seems as though diluting with RO or distilled water (to get alkalinity down) then adding salts to get your Calcium, Sodium, and Sulphate levels back up to where you want them, then use lactic acid if need be, is the best choice.

 

[ajdelange]

You have hard, alkaline water. That alkalinity has to be dispatched somehow or other. Acid will do the job for sure but for each equivalent of alkalinity removed an equivalent of the cation of the acid remains behind. Lactic acid is fairly strongly flavored. I cannot say as to whether 3.9 mEq/L (the approximate amount you would need for this level of alkalinity) would have an effect on taste but keep in mind that this amount of lactic acid is the amount required to overcome the proton deficit of the water alone. There is an additional proton deficit associated with the base malts and additional acid will be needed to overcome that. Keep in mind, however, that the high level of calcium effectively supplies some of that additional required acid.

Apparently, then, dosing with a flavorful acid is not the best option for dealing with this level of alkalinity. A flavorless acid may well be a better choice and phosphoric is the obvious candidate as it can be obtained from most home brew suppliers.

Another option, mentioned in #3, is to dilute away the alkalinity with RO water. 100% dilution is not unreasonable with water this hard/carbonaceous. 100% RO represents the ultimate in control over your water chemistry as the salts that go into the mash tun will be those that you put into the liquor.

Yet another option is to decarbonate the water by boiling it or treating it with lime. You should be able to get alkalinity down to 50-75 with this approach and can knock that last bit out with less acid. Calcium will be lost with the alkalinity and may require supplementation. Decarbonation is a bit of a PITA but you don't have to spend the money for an RO system if you use it.

 

[Homercidal]

FWIW I'd rather spend the $150 on an RO system than mess around with decarbing. I was shopping for a system and planning where and how to use it when our local grocery installed an RO system for drinking water. So now I just drive a few blocks and fill 2 5 gallon jugs for under $4. It would take a lot of brewing to equal the cost of an RO system and this way I don't have to install it.

 

[mabrungard]

That water is not terrible, but it does present "challenges". The main problem is the alkalinity. Acidification will work, but that is a decent amount of alkalinity to neutralize. Using lactic acid MIGHT present a taste impact, but that is a personal taste threshold issue. I would also consider using phosphoric to do some or all of the neutralization.

If you can afford it, including a RO system in your brewing kit would be a nice addition. But don't dismiss your tap water. It is still fairly usable.

 

[hindey19]

As someone with a very similar water profile, what affect would the high alkalinity have on taste of say, an Oktoberfest or lighter tasting beer, without treating it at all?

From what I understand, this is a reasonably decent profile for very dark, roasty beers, but anything other than a porter or stout, and work needs to be done.

 

[ny101]

Thanks for all the input.

I'm not to afraid of playing with the water a bit. Worst thing that happens is I'll dump a half gallon test batch. I guess the best thing would be to compare it to the batches I make using store bought spring water (for which I also have the water quality report)

I think I'll end up trying the following out on some test batches:

1) [Well water + Lactic Acid batch] vs. [Adjusted Bottled Spring] vs [Phosphoric acid + Well water]

2) If none of those work, I'll dilute my well water 50:50 with distilled and adjust up from there

3) If all that fails, I'll probably just stick with bottled spring water. I'm not a huge fan of adopting additional maintenance and consumables in my brew process (It's already pretty complicated)... so that almost rules out RO. I keep an open mind, but at the moment I'm just not there yet.

 

[ajdelange]

As someone with a very similar water profile, what affect would the high alkalinity have on taste of say, an Oktoberfest or lighter tasting beer, without treating it at all?

High alkalinity means that acid must be supplied if correct mash pH is to be reached. If this acid isn't supplied then correct pH won't be reached - the mash pH will be too high. The usual effect of high pH is that the beer's flavors are muted, dull, insipid. The beer won't be ruined but it certainly won't be all it can be.

From what I understand, this is a reasonably decent profile for very dark, roasty beers, but anything other than a porter or stout, and work needs to be done.

Colored malts (roast and caramel/crystal) contain quite a bit of acid and if enough of them are used can overcome the alkalinity of the water and the alkalinity of the base malt. This is why dark beers can be made with alkaline waters whereas lighter beers are problematic. In this case about 10% each of a typical 60L caramel and 600L black (each supplying about half the necessary acid) would be required to attain mash pH of 5.5 with a typical base malt and 1.5 qt/lb grist ratio.

 

[The_Bishop]

An RO system doesn't require a ton of maintenance or consumables. I installed one because I'm in the same boat you are; hard alkaline well water. Only drawback is it takes a while to produce water; the storage tank holds 3.5-4 gallons so the faucet produces that fairly quickly but it takes an hour or two for the rest (usually about 8.5 gallons total). When I'm not brewing it provides drinking water for a tap on the sink and ice/water for the refrigerator.

Maintenance involves periodically checking the output with a TDS meter to insure the membrane is still rejecting in the right percentage, and once a year swapping out two carbon filters that aren't very expensive.

I used this system: Extra Duty RO.
You can request a 75gpd membrane as a free upgrade.
Use coupon code #06797 for 10% off.