Brewing up a Gluten Free Beer this weekend- anyone else?

[KevinM]

It takes about a month for all my known effects to clear when I ingest something. I usually get some energy problems with a thyroid, indigestion where food just won't digest properly and I'm constantly hungry, some haziness and trouble thinking or paying attention. I also have excema in some cases. Even then, from the first time I did it, it took me a few months gluten free before I had my system cleared and working.

And yes, generally those do have a form of gluten and some people are allergic to those, but it's usually an allergy specific to those grains rather than gluten itself. Most common are the wheat, barley and rye with oats coming up after that. Corn and even rice allergies are not unheard of though.

And nope, not brewing anything this weekend that I know of, but I think I'm ready to bottle my accidental sorghumwines so I can get my jugs ready so I can brew something in the next few weeks. Perhaps I'll do a tea stout and that coffee stout. I'm still thinking if it's possible for me to do a partial mash thing, or if soaking and roasting unmalted grains might give some flavor.

 

[DKershner]

I think the "bone pain" might be joint pain associated with anemia, or lack of iron in the blood. This comes from not digesting enough food to get the nutrients from it. This is the way my mom reacted to gluten.

My sister is less reactive, just gets skin problems and is really tired.

My girlfriend has severe digestive issues, but it only happens after continued exposure.

So I think it ranges, even in two people who are genetically related.

I have a peanut/treenut allergy and generally just get swelling and hives. Not sure if that helps, but it seems to be part of the discussion now.

 

[aggieotis]

that is funny, when you go for alternative flours to gluten you end up with exactly those, tapioca, rice and corn.

So your telling me corn has gluten in it?

Gluten is a bit of a misnomer, because it's a name for a large set of proteins with similar properties, but different compositions.

Celiacs are actually allergic to only 3 of the many peptides that make up a wheat's gluten protein. So technically gluten isn't the issue, those specific peptides are the issue, which means that celiacs don't have any problem eating the similar, yet different, gluten proteins found in Corn Gluten, Rice Gluten, Tapioca Gluten, Oat Gluten, Quinoa Gluten, etc.

However, it's typically a lot easier to say, "I need to eat gluten-free" than "I can't be exposed to 3 peptides contained in Triticeae Glutens"

My Personal Hypothesis:
While research hasn't been done I suspect that we'll end up finding that barley is less harmful to celiacs than wheat because it either has a lower concentration of these 3 peptides, or it's only got 1 or 2 of the 3 evil peptides. And maybe in the future we'll figure out a way to either simply turn off the immune-response to those peptides or create some chemical that binds with the peptides or destroys them in-gut so that they are neutralized before ingestion.

Here's links with probably more science than you want:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gluten_immunochemistry
Robert Anderson's actual research paper suggesting only 3 peptides are to blame.

 

[humann_brewing]

I think the "bone pain" might be joint pain associated with anemia, or lack of iron in the blood. This comes from not digesting enough food to get the nutrients from it. This is the way my mom reacted to gluten.

My sister is less reactive, just gets skin problems and is really tired.

My girlfriend has severe digestive issues, but it only happens after continued exposure.

So I think it ranges, even in two people who are genetically related.

I have a peanut/treenut allergy and generally just get swelling and hives. Not sure if that helps, but it seems to be part of the discussion now.

Gluten is a bit of a misnomer, because it's a name for a large set of proteins with similar properties, but different compositions.

Celiacs are actually allergic to only 3 of the many peptides that make up a wheat's gluten protein. So technically gluten isn't the issue, those specific peptides are the issue, which means that celiacs don't have any problem eating the similar, yet different, gluten proteins found in Corn Gluten, Rice Gluten, Tapioca Gluten, Oat Gluten, Quinoa Gluten, etc.

However, it's typically a lot easier to say, "I need to eat gluten-free" than "I can't be exposed to 3 peptides contained in Triticeae Glutens"

My Personal Hypothesis:
While research hasn't been done I suspect that we'll end up finding that barley is less harmful to celiacs than wheat because it either has a lower concentration of these 3 peptides, or it's only got 1 or 2 of the 3 evil peptides. And maybe in the future we'll figure out a way to either simply turn off the immune-response to those peptides or create some chemical that binds with the peptides or destroys them in-gut so that they are neutralized before ingestion.

Here's links with probably more science than you want:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gluten_immunochemistry
Robert Anderson's actual research paper suggesting only 3 peptides are to blame.

wow, this is all great info, thanks, I will share with the wife.

On another not, went to the eye doc today, he said it is not out of the realm that it is allergy related but he didn't think so. Had to stay PC I guess.

I have some meds, will get that a try, if things clear up while I'm on gluten, I guess I will know.

On another side note, I notice when I have a good amount of beer, my bones ache the next day too. I thought it was just part of a hangover but maybe something else.

 

[DKershner]

wow, this is all great info, thanks, I will share with the wife.

On another not, went to the eye doc today, he said it is not out of the realm that it is allergy related but he didn't think so. Had to stay PC I guess.

I have some meds, will get that a try, if things clear up while I'm on gluten, I guess I will know.

On another side note, I notice when I have a good amount of beer, my bones ache the next day too. I thought it was just part of a hangover but maybe something else.

I sometimes had some weird reactions to wheat beers when I lived in Germany. There were so unfiltered and pure that I had some funky stuff go on. I originally attributed it to wheat, but I haven't been able to replicate it in the states no matter what I eat or drink, so who knows what it was. I even would eat entire bauggettes (sp?)_ over there and have no reaction.

In summary, I think you are probably just hungover. In general, beer doesn't have that much gluten in it, and you would be worse off eating a sandwich than an entire 12pack. It might be dehydration or any number of other things that come with drinking.

Although, I could use some help on figuring out why storebought red wines make me have amazingly large headaches and nausea, to the point of throwing up. This is usually after a glass or two, but doesn't occur till the next day. Also accompanied by skin redness on my neck, but that isn't abnormal for drinking, it is just worse than normal. This is a recent phenomenon.

 

[humann_brewing]

I sometimes had some weird reactions to wheat beers when I lived in Germany. There were so unfiltered and pure that I had some funky stuff go on. I originally attributed it to wheat, but I haven't been able to replicate it in the states no matter what I eat or drink, so who knows what it was. I even would eat entire bauggettes (sp?)_ over there and have no reaction.

In summary, I think you are probably just hungover. In general, beer doesn't have that much gluten in it, and you would be worse off eating a sandwich than an entire 12pack. It might be dehydration or any number of other things that come with drinking.

Although, I could use some help on figuring out why storebought red wines make me have amazingly large headaches and nausea, to the point of throwing up. This is usually after a glass or two, but doesn't occur till the next day. Also accompanied by skin redness on my neck, but that isn't abnormal for drinking, it is just worse than normal. This is a recent phenomenon.

wow, that is crazy. I am just hoping the meds I got today will take care of the eyes. If they do, I quess I am good. Although I wouldn't mind doing gluten free beer, I have too much equipment that I have put together to do extract. I guess I could mash rice it certainly is cheap in bulk

 

[KevinM]

Well, you could make some gluten free beer even if it's not the case. Just make sure you make enough and send it to us, we would put it to good use.

Personally, I'm looking forward to using buckwheat since it looks like the others have had some success in flavor with that, in conjunction with sorghum or brown rice.

 

[JerryE]

It takes about a month for all my known effects to clear when I ingest something. I usually get some energy problems with a thyroid, indigestion where food just won't digest properly and I'm constantly hungry, some haziness and trouble thinking or paying attention. I also have excema in some cases. Even then, from the first time I did it, it took me a few months gluten free before I had my system cleared and working.

+1
Very similar.

Although, I could use some help on figuring out why storebought red wines make me have amazingly large headaches and nausea, to the point of throwing up. This is usually after a glass or two, but doesn't occur till the next day. Also accompanied by skin redness on my neck, but that isn't abnormal for drinking, it is just worse than normal. This is a recent phenomenon.

Definitely sounds like an allergy or RWH (red wine headache). My mother and wife both can not tolerate red wine. I have heard tannins as a possible cause, along with various additives. If it is only certain brands, I would guess the latter.

 

[Huff360]

Although, I could use some help on figuring out why storebought red wines make me have amazingly large headaches and nausea, to the point of throwing up. This is usually after a glass or two, but doesn't occur till the next day. Also accompanied by skin redness on my neck, but that isn't abnormal for drinking, it is just worse than normal. This is a recent phenomenon.

Hmm odd. I do almost the same thing, but within a matter of 30 minutes to an hour. Redness for me is pretty much all over though. Arms and face both get very splotchy.

In the late 90's my mom and I both had a major problem eating at salad bars. Within 15 or so minutes of the first bite, it was to the john we go for a few hours of misery. After a bit of research, we found out a lot of places were spraying their veggies with sodium bisulfite to prevent browning. As far as I know, that has been stopped due to so many people reacting to it.

I figure it is the same thing in the wine, but I'm not a big fan anyway so it's never really bothered me. Maybe you could try dosing a batch of water with sodium metabisulfite at the recommended level and drink two glasses. See if you get the same reaction. Then, you'd just have to get sulfite free wine. Problem solved.

 

[DKershner]

I figure it is the same thing in the wine, but I'm not a big fan anyway so it's never really bothered me. Maybe you could try dosing a batch of water with sodium metabisulfite at the recommended level and drink two glasses. See if you get the same reaction. Then, you'd just have to get sulfite free wine. Problem solved.

I just used sodium metabisulphite in our holiday cider, I can drink that without issue. It is probably less than is used in commercial wines though, plus sulphite naturally occurs in grape skins, I think.

 

[fermentedhiker]

If you primarily get headaches after red wine and not white, sulfites are unlikely to be the cause. Potassium metabisulfite is used as a wine preservative partly because it occurs naturally as a bi product of fermentation. Red wine "usually" has a higher alcohol content, higher tannin content as well as other phenolic compounds that help preserve it which means commercial wineries put less in it then they do white wines which are more at risk of spoilage. I'm not saying the RWH isn't real, just that it's something other than the sulfites that's causing it.

 

[DKershner]

If you primarily get headaches after red wine and not white, sulfites are unlikely to be the cause. Potassium metabisulfite is used as a wine preservative partly because it occurs naturally as a bi product of fermentation. Red wine "usually" has a higher alcohol content, higher tannin content as well as other phenolic compounds that help preserve it which means commercial wineries put less in it then they do white wines which are more at risk of spoilage. I'm not saying the RWH isn't real, just that it's something other than the sulfites that's causing it.

I was also under the impression that red wine grapes had a lot more sulphite in the actual grapes, so even if there is less added sulphite in red wine, the end result may still be more.

In any case, I do not think sulphites are the answer here.

To throw a wrench in the gears...it does not seem to happen with my homemade wine, just commercial wine, and typically just the cheaper end of the spectrum.

 

[fermentedhiker]

They add more than is naturally occurring, so the final ppm count in whites is still higher.

http://wineintro.com/glossary/s/sulfites.html

I've often wondered what causes it myself. Whether it's pesticide residue or some other contaminate that is more likely to show up in a lower budget operation. I haven't found anything consistent to make me feel like I was on the right track though.

The article does give a good test for a sulfite reaction though. Dried apricots have more sulfites in them than a glass of wine so if you can consume a bowl of dried apricots without reaction it's time to look for another cause.

 

[Lcasanova]

...So- I'm going to be brewing up another double chocolate oatmeal stout. 100% BRS but essentially the same as the original with less chocolate- hopefully this cuts back on the bitterness and acidity

 

[fermentedhiker]

...So- I'm going to be brewing up another double chocolate oatmeal stout. 100% BRS but essentially the same as the original with less chocolate- hopefully this cuts back on the bitterness and acidity

I definitely want to hear how this one turns out. Successfully pulling of some stout and porter recipes is where I want to end up.

 

[Lcasanova]

Let me look into what makes up a porter. I actually think my last "brown" might fit that description. I've been thinking about the stout, or at least a beer that is black. The only way we are going to get that is by doing a gf beer that gets most of the fermentables from a mash. That mash needs to have some specialty grains to give it the color- every time I add sorghum syrup or BRS it lightens it. The fix would be blackstrap molasses or dark candi syrup but I don't want to use TOO much of either.

 

[KevinM]

Is it still the situation that steeping dark roasted unmalted grains won't do much and that it has to be malted and likely mashed? Even though I keep reading on it I'm pretty confused. Molasses keeps giving my beer a slightly molasses flavor which wasn't what I was looking for. How about Buckwheat honey?
I can definately say that the chocolate nibs in my secondary hasn't done much for color, and I won't know for a while about flavor. I don't think the toasted grains did anything for color either.

 

[Lcasanova]

For me the toasted grains are adding some flavor but not much in color when you are also adding dark candi sugar or molasses. If you were going to highly kiln or roast the grains and use them in a mash you would probably get the color you want.

 

[DKershner]

Is it still the situation that steeping dark roasted unmalted grains won't do much and that it has to be malted and likely mashed? Even though I keep reading on it I'm pretty confused. Molasses keeps giving my beer a slightly molasses flavor which wasn't what I was looking for. How about Buckwheat honey?
I can definately say that the chocolate nibs in my secondary hasn't done much for color, and I won't know for a while about flavor. I don't think the toasted grains did anything for color either.

On the mash vs steep question, it shouldn't matter much for color. Flavor and the amount of sugar you gain would be the part that varies widely.

As for color on the easy side of things, I have used up to 25% dark candi sugar without much ill effect. It in fact was the gluten free beer that had the best head retention yet.

In any case, stouts and porters are pretty close. A stout is actually called a "Porter Stout", or at least it was in the olden days. Stouts in general just have a little more alcohol, and depending on the style of stout, some more roasty, coffee flavors. They are both essentially black. A brown would differ from these two by having a sweeter flavor, less roasty. All are high on the body side of things, but the taste of that body is different. Also, the brown is lighter in color.

 

[Lcasanova]

Yes- of course I am bringing this thread back from the dead!

I've gotta say, I've been away from this for quite some time but I really need to get back into it. Looks like there are quite a few new names on here that I didn't see a few years ago.

So- what's everyone brewing now a days?

 

[pwarren]

I've given up on brewing gluten free beers, the ones I've made have tasted really awful, and I just don't have the time or energy to debug what's gone wrong. So, I now brew up some Cider every year, as per Graham's recipe:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f81/grahams-english-cider-107152/

Which is very yummy, and gluten free to boot! I think once the kids are a little older I'll try again with the beer.

 

[Lcasanova]

I've given up on brewing gluten free beers, the ones I've made have tasted really awful, and I just don't have the time or energy to debug what's gone wrong. So, I now brew up some Cider every year, as per Graham's recipe:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f81/grahams-english-cider-107152/

Which is very yummy, and gluten free to boot! I think once the kids are a little older I'll try again with the beer.

Sorry to hear that but I know what you mean. Although I always liked the ones I brewed, except for the experimental pumpkin flavor extract ones.

Ever made an oaked sweet cider?

 

[thanantos]

Well, after brewing two variations of your pumpkin spice ales (thanks for that recipe, BTW) I plan to brew an amber ale today.

I have been jumping all around so far with my brewing trying different people's recipes so now I want to slow down and try a good, basic recipe using what I have learned so far. From there I plan to try different variations of that same recipe adding different ingredients along the way like candi syrup, sorghum, honey, etc.

Also, I brewed a light, summer ale this summer that was a big hit with my friends so I figured I'd treat them to something similar again.

Here's what I am brewing today:

6lbs BRS @ 60
1lb Buckwheat honey @ flameout

0.5oz chinook @ 60
1oz cascade @ 30
1oz cascade @ 15
1oz cascade dry hopped for a week

1lb maltodextrin
Yeast nutrient, irish moss and S-05.

OG 1.048, 4.6% ABV and 52 IBU's

 

[philbert]

Yes- of course I am bringing this thread back from the dead!

I've gotta say, I've been away from this for quite some time but I really need to get back into it. Looks like there are quite a few new names on here that I didn't see a few years ago.

So- what's everyone brewing now a days?

I'm on of those "new names" that has been reading and digesting whatever other's experiences have been in GF brewing.

My wife was diagnosed with Celiac in the spring. We both discovered we enjoyed the taste of Bards the best but did not necessarily enjoy the cost, just as we don't enjoy the cost of most things GF.

I tried the standard GF brew recipe on my first try with a result of something unfit for man or beast. After more reading I tweaked, modified, and combined several other recipes and came up with something that was quite palatable using sorghum LME as a base, although it is a bit sweet. The next batch I will tweak some more and I hope to have something that anyone would have difficulty distinguishing from "regular" beer.

 

[Safa]

I'm on of those "new names" that has been reading and digesting whatever other's experiences have been in GF brewing.

My wife was diagnosed with Celiac in the spring. We both discovered we enjoyed the taste of Bards the best but did not necessarily enjoy the cost, just as we don't enjoy the cost of most things GF.

I tried the standard GF brew recipe on my first try with a result of something unfit for man or beast. After more reading I tweaked, modified, and combined several other recipes and came up with something that was quite palatable using sorghum LME as a base, although it is a bit sweet. The next batch I will tweak some more and I hope to have something that anyone would have difficulty distinguishing from "regular" beer.

Once you have this down, I would love to give it a go!

I just brewed a variation on Thanatos' pumpkin spice ale on Wednesday I think and its still happily bubbling away. Have a cider on tap right now, always an easy GF option.

The SWMBO is pretty severely gluten intolerant, but used to drink boatloads of Guinness with me (and then feel inexplicably horrible for days, haha). So ultimately I'm hoping to head in that direction with my GF attempts! Any ideas?!

 

[ChasidicCalvinist]

In all honesty I don't understand the GF hating. At least the homebrew gf hating, especially when it comes to Sorghum. Commercial GF beers stink. But I have had great success with my GF homebrews--and that isn't just my opinion. My beers have been well received by everyone who has tried them. Some of the "testers" were people who have had--because of me, everything from Redbridge to Greens, so they knew what was out there and felt that not only was what I had brewed superior but tasted like "Regular" beer. Indeed, I have actually had requests by 2 individuals to take some of my homebrews home with them, even though they could buy any type or barley based beer on the market and drink those to their hearts content.

Two things are worth mentioning: I brew for myself, not for the satisfaction of others. My wife HATES beer and always has. So it really doesn't matter what others think, I brew so that I can enjoy beer again. And because it is really, really fun. Second, I'm not trying to brag but rather encourage GF brewers. Stop putting yourself down, stop being negative, stop giving up. Not only can you brew good GF beer, but you should!

Safa, here is my Guinness recipe I have come up with. I haven't brewed it yet and I haven't given it any critical attention. My research into Guinness clones is it is incredibly hard to find someone who can tell you the correct hop schedule. But the sour beer *should* be the area where Sorghum shines.

"God and Guinness" 5 gallon batch

1lb Dark Roasted Amaranth
2lbs Dark Roasted Millet
2lb Dark Roasted Oats
2lb Dark Roasted Quinoa

3lb Brown Rice Syrup
1.6lb Sorghum
1/2lb Buckwheat Honey (flame out)
1/2lb D-180
1/2lb D-90
1lb maltodextrin
1oz East Kent Goldings at 60

Nottingham Ale yast or possibly Irish Ale yeast

Bottle with ½ cup corn sugar

Note, Irish Ale yeast is not GF, but in a 5 gallon batch is 2ppm before washing the yeast.

 

[thanantos]

In all honesty I don't understand the GF hating. At least the homebrew gf hating, especially when it comes to Sorghum. Commercial GF beers stink. But I have had great success with my GF homebrews--and that isn't just my opinion. My beers have been well received by everyone who has tried them. Some of the "testers" were people who have had--because of me, everything from Redbridge to Greens, so they knew what was out there and felt that not only was what I had brewed superior but tasted like "Regular" beer. Indeed, I have actually had requests to by 2 individuals to take some of my homebrews home with them, even though they could buy any type or barley based beer on the market and drink that to their hearts content.

Two things are worth mentioning: I brew for myself. My wife HATES beer and always has. So it really doesn't matter what others think, I brew so that I can enjoy beer again. And because it is really, really fun. Second, I'm not trying to brag but rather encourage GF brewers. Stop putting yourself down, stop being negative, stop giving up. Not only can you brew good GF beer, but you should!

Well said. The beer I have been making (extract brews from a novice brewer altogether) have been really good. Not to say I haven't made some I wouldn't brew again, but overall my success rate has been high. Every GF beer I have made has been better than any GF beer I have had from any commercial brewery.

I will continue to brew GF and would encourage others to do the same. IMHO, it's the only way that us GF folks are going to get any decent beer.

 

[Safa]

So it really doesn't matter what others think, I brew so that I can enjoy beer again.

Second! Well well said! Thanks for the recipe, I'll probably try that out very very soon and just leave it sitting in a secondary until I have keg space for it! Beware, you will probably be getting a PM from me with questions!

Edit: I see your message inbox is full, so at the risk of taking this thread completely off topic..:

Thanks again for the recipe!

Some questions if you don't mind, I'm very new to this so I like to be clear because otherwise I'll make mistakes with what other guys see as obvious.

1lb Dark Roasted Amaranth
2lbs Dark Roasted Millet
2lb Dark Roasted Oats
2lb Dark Roasted Quinoa

Where do you get all these grains, and do you roast them yourself? I just had a quick (albeit not extensive) google search and it yielded nothing with Amaranth and Millet. Are you doing a full mash with them? I'm still in the extract/mini mash stage, so I guess I'd need help mashing them if so

3lb Brown Rice Syrup - Do you think that 3lb of BRS solids would work equally as well? Its all I can find at my LHBS. If not, I'll likely be ordering the grains anyway, so adding in the syrup wont be a big deal.
1.6lb Sorghum - Do you mean syrup to be added @60, or grain for steeping pre-boil?
1/2lb Buckwheat Honey (flame out)
1/2lb D-180 - Do you add the d180 and 90 at the start of the boil (i.e. @ 60)? + Do you dissolve them in hot water first?
1/2lb D-90
1lb maltodextrin - @ 60?
1oz East Kent Goldings at 60

Nottingham Ale yast or possibly Irish Ale yeast

 

[philbert]

I finally got around to brewing another batch last night. I didn't have time to do everything I wanted to do but I still should end up with something that is quite good regardless. As I had said previously, the batch I made a few months ago was drinkable but a bit on the sweet side. After looking over my ingredients and the recipes of those before me, I realized I had used way too many fermentables.....the yeast could only go so far. A recurring theme in the other recipes were approximately five pounds of fermentables per five gallons of brew. Mine ended up being closer to eight pounds of fermentables so no wonder it was sweet!

The other trick I've learned - based on other's comments - is to use about half of the fermentables in the boil and the remainder at flame out. I think this really helps with the weird after taste that many have described.

5 Gallon batch
Boil Time 60 minutes

2 gallons of water
2 pounds of sorghum syrup
.5 pound of rice solids
.5 oz cascade hops 60 minutes
.5 oz cascade hops 15 minutes
1 Whirfloc tablet 15 minutes
1 pound sorghum at flameout
.5 pounds rice solids at flameout
.5 pounds Belgian Syrup at flameout
.5 pounds honey at flameout
4 oz Maltodextrin at flameout
Safelager 34-70 yeast
dry hop .5 oz cascade hops

Next time I will toast some quinoa and steep. Brewing GF, just as baking GF food, is trial and error in many ways.

Fairly simple recipe.

 

[thanantos]

I made some cider i plan to dry hop.