Brewhouse Cerveza With 2272 Question

[PegCityBrew]

Hello:

I am starting a new brew tonight and I am using a Brewhouse Cerveza kit. I really like the liquid yeasts and the Brewhouse site recommends a California Lager. My LBHS didn't have that in stock so I just decided to go with the 2272 North American Lager.

I do not have a lagering fridge but my basement is very cool (apprx 65 if not less). Will I have some issues with this combination as the lager will not ferment at that high temperature?

Also, What are your thoughts for a dry hop at the later stages?

Thanks!!!!

 

[imperialipa]

Lager will ferment at the higher temps the problem is that you may get some off flavors.
65 degrees is a bit high IMO for a traditional lager. I do my Negro modelo around 52-54 degrees.

Dry hopping will add aroma but I have never dry hopped a lager so I cant comment on that.

 

[SD-SLIM]

You really should have your core temperature of the beer down below 58 degrees...so in a 65 degree room, you could expect the core temperature to be 5 degrees higher. My advice, dont attempt a lager beer until you have refrigeration...but you are good for most ales!

 

[PegCityBrew]

Ok, I think I have a fridge I might be able to use, if not, I will give it a shot in the coldest area of my house.

What about in secondary? Does it still need to be cool during that phase?

 

[osagedr]

Lots of people use ice baths and cover their fermenters with a towel/t-shirt/whatever to keep ferm temps as low as possible.

It's not a real good idea to make a lager if you can't ferment in the right temp range. I'd really try the ice bath idea. You'd probably be much happier just doing a pale ale or a hybrid like a Kolsch.

I do like the Brewhouse kits!

 

[PegCityBrew]

Well I did get a fridge for it. Now my problem is keeping my fridge between 10 and 14 celcius for the liquid yeast. It wants to stay around 6 to 8 even on the warmest setting. Lagering is complicated and a pain! But I love brewing and experimenting so we will see.

Any suggestions about fridge temp stability?

 

[osagedr]

Well I did get a fridge for it. Now my problem is keeping my fridge between 10 and 14 celcius for the liquid yeast. It wants to stay around 6 to 8 even on the warmest setting. Lagering is complicated and a pain! But I love brewing and experimenting so we will see.

Any suggestions about fridge temp stability?

Hey, just noticed you are a Winnipegger!

Best way to control temps is with an external temperature controller. I have a couple I got at Northern Brewer in St. Paul. There was one on Kijiji Winnipeg awhile ago but I don't see it on there now.

I presume you got your yeast at Grape and Grain. I wonder if Scotty would exchange it for you and give you something that would ferment a bit cooler. There are some yeasts that I wouldn't be afraid to go to 6-8 degrees for if you pitched enough yeast. Fermentation will warm your beer considerably over the ambient temp in your fridge. In fact, if you can cool your wort to around 50 degrees in your fridge, pitch your yeast with your wort outside your fridge (don't forget you will need a big starter), watch for signs of activity, then put it back in your fridge I bet you will be right in the sweet spot for fermentation temps even with your fridge running around 6 or 8 degrees.

Since you already have wort from your kit, I would use that to make your starter as opposed to DME or whatever.

 

[SD-SLIM]

Well I did get a fridge for it. Now my problem is keeping my fridge between 10 and 14 celcius for the liquid yeast. It wants to stay around 6 to 8 even on the warmest setting. Lagering is complicated and a pain! But I love brewing and experimenting so we will see.

Any suggestions about fridge temp stability?

I would search this site for aquarium temperature controls...find the one that is 120 volt from China, 2 weeks later you will a 20 dollar controller that will allow you to dial in your temperatures where you need them to be!

 

[PegCityBrew]

Yes I am a Winnipegger Born and Raised!!

Well I decided to pitch it and see what happends. I got so excited when I picked it up during work that I smacked it so I could start once I got home. I pitched it at room temp then threw it into the fridge. I think since it started warm and cooling it the fridge will help it along the path to a tasty lager.

As they saw, brewing is an art and a science so hopefully the art part will work for me on this go around.

What about when I transfer to secondary? Do I need to keep it cool?

 

[osagedr]

Yes I am a Winnipegger Born and Raised!!

Well I decided to pitch it and see what happends. I got so excited when I picked it up during work that I smacked it so I could start once I got home. I pitched it at room temp then threw it into the fridge. I think since it started warm and cooling it the fridge will help it along the path to a tasty lager.

As they saw, brewing is an art and a science so hopefully the art part will work for me on this go around.

What about when I transfer to secondary? Do I need to keep it cool?

I don't want to discourage you but I think you are rushing your process and will end up being disappointed as a result. I know from experience that underpitching a lager can lead to extremely poor outcomes. It is a big, big deal with lagers to pitch enough yeast if you are going to ferment at proper temperatures, even more so if you are under the recommended temperature range for your yeast. Even worse in this case is the fact that you are pitching into six gallons rather than five.

The process of extended cold aging is lagering, which by definition is what gives a lager its crisp, clean character so yes, you need to keep it very cool (on your fridge's coldest setting) for some period of time (a couple of months is ideal but my guess is you won't be able to wait that long).

What you want to do starting now is the following: 1. watch for signs of fermentation (what type of fermenter are you using? If it has an airlock you will watch for bubbles to start). 2. if after a week you have no fermentation (as I suspect you won't due to underpitching at very cool temps) then go back to Grape and Grain and pick up a couple of packages of S-23 dry lager yeast, rehydrate them as per the manufacturer's instructions on their website (not the package), and re-pitch. 3. once fermentation is nearing completion (whether your original yeast worked or you needed to repitch), take your fermenter out of the fridge and leave it at room temperature for at least a couple of days for a diacetyl rest. My rule of thumb is when your lager specific gravity gets to 1.020, it's time for a d-rest. You will need a hydrometer to measure your specific gravity. If you don't have one, get one. 4. your beer should reach its final gravity in a few days at room temperature. Finishing at warmer temperatures will not affect your flavour profile. After verifying that your beer has reached its final gravity, rack it off the yeast cake into a carboy or other vessel and begin the extended cold aging period. You may choose to employ gelatin to help with clearing.

 

[paraordnance]

I just finished fermenting lager at 62F at one point it got up to 67F and its good from hydrometer sample, nice and clean, no esters. I used Mauri Lager 497 yeast for the first time. Its great yeast I'll tell ya. If this beer turns out great, this will be my go to lager yeast.

 

[osagedr]

Sounds great!

I really like W-34/70 dry lager yeast. I wash and re-use and my next use of it will be about the fourth generation.

 

[PegCityBrew]

I don't want to discourage you but I think you are rushing your process and will end up being disappointed as a result. I know from experience that underpitching a lager can lead to extremely poor outcomes. It is a big, big deal with lagers to pitch enough yeast if you are going to ferment at proper temperatures, even more so if you are under the recommended temperature range for your yeast. Even worse in this case is the fact that you are pitching into six gallons rather than five.

The process of extended cold aging is lagering, which by definition is what gives a lager its crisp, clean character so yes, you need to keep it very cool (on your fridge's coldest setting) for some period of time (a couple of months is ideal but my guess is you won't be able to wait that long).

What you want to do starting now is the following: 1. watch for signs of fermentation (what type of fermenter are you using? If it has an airlock you will watch for bubbles to start). 2. if after a week you have no fermentation (as I suspect you won't due to underpitching at very cool temps) then go back to Grape and Grain and pick up a couple of packages of S-23 dry lager yeast, rehydrate them as per the manufacturer's instructions on their website (not the package), and re-pitch. 3. once fermentation is nearing completion (whether your original yeast worked or you needed to repitch), take your fermenter out of the fridge and leave it at room temperature for at least a couple of days for a diacetyl rest. My rule of thumb is when your lager specific gravity gets to 1.020, it's time for a d-rest. You will need a hydrometer to measure your specific gravity. If you don't have one, get one. 4. your beer should reach its final gravity in a few days at room temperature. Finishing at warmer temperatures will not affect your flavour profile. After verifying that your beer has reached its final gravity, rack it off the yeast cake into a carboy or other vessel and begin the extended cold aging period. You may choose to employ gelatin to help with clearing.

Just so I am clear, what I should have done was:

1. Cooled my wort doing to 55F then added the yeast
2. Keep between 50 and 55 until fementation is complete (about 2 weeks?).
3. Racked it to secondary, throw it back into the fridge for another month or so.
4. Bottle

Thanks!!!

 

[PegCityBrew]

Update

Well something is happening in there, there is acream layer on the bottom of my primera and kreusen at the top (though not alot yet) so I don't think I will need to re-pitch