Brewed my awesome extract IPA as BIAB AG, now I'm sad

[Calypso]

So I had an extract IPA that was really quite good. I went to all-grain (BIAB) and am very disappointed by the results. Where did I go wrong?

Original:
ABV: 6.65%, OG: 1.066, FG: 1.015
IBUs: 70, Color: 9.3 SRM

8.5 lbs Plain Light DME
1 lb Rye Malt
6 oz Munich
4 oz Honey Malt
1 oz Pacific Gem (FWH)
1 oz Wakatu / NZ Hallertau (15 minutes)
1 oz Pacific Gem (5 minutes)
1 oz Wakatu / NZ Hallertau (0 minutes)
2 oz Wakatu (dry hopped)
1 tsp Irish Moss
WLP001 California Ale yeast

It was kind of dark, a bit sweet, with fruit notes and lovely body and hop flavor/aroma.

All-Grain:
9 lbs Pale Malt
8 oz Carapils
6 oz Honey Malt
2 lbs Rye Malt
1.5 lbs Flaked Rye
1 oz Pacific Gem (FWH)
1 oz Wakatu / NZ Hallertau (15 minutes)
1 oz Pacific Gem (0 minutes)
1 oz Wakatu / NZ Hallertau (0 minutes)
2 oz Wakatu / NZ Hallertau (dry hop)
2 oz Motueka (dry hop)
Wyeast 1272
I also adjusted the water - original profile: 37.9 Ca, 5 Mg, 61 Na, 37 S, 95 Cl, adjusted profile: 46.9 Ca, 3.4 Mg, 40.9 Na, 76.4 S, 63.7 Cl.

My mash efficiency wasn't very good, so I ended up with a SG of 1.052 rather than 1.066. I just tasted it, now that primary fermentation is done, and it's a completely different beer. The body is thinner, the color is MUCH lighter, all the interesting sweet/malty character is gone, and I'm left with, basically, an APA.

Which of my changes is the primary culprit? I want my other beer back.

 

[agrazela]

Mash temp and time? And mash ph?

 

[LabRatBrewer]

I'd guess its the lack of the munich malt. Its tough when you change multiple variables to decide which causes the change. Changing yeast really effects flavor, is Wyeast 1272 similar strain as WLP001?

 

[Calypso]

Mash temp and time? And mash ph?

Dough in it was about 154. I had targeted 152, so I stirred uncovered for a fe minutes and let it drop, then covered and insulated with a sleeping bag. Total mash time was 75 minutes.

I don't know the pH (just got my meter yestetday), but city water is 9.3 and I used Brun water to estimate mash acidification. In theory, the 40 mL of 10% phosphoric acid I added brought the final pH down to 5.4.

 

[Calypso]

I'd guess its the lack of the munich malt. Its tough when you change multiple variables to decide which causes the change. Changing yeast really effects flavor, is Wyeast 1272 similar strain as WLP001?

Tell me about it! Lesson learned, might need to roll back and start changing one thing at a time.

They're supposed to be similar, but different strains... I think.

 

[chickypad]

Yeah not real surprising they're very different beers. 1.066 to 1.052 alone is a decent difference and would change the BU:GU ratio fairly significantly. Then you used just a lb of rye in the first (was it even mashed?) and 3 1/2 times that in the second which put you at 26% rye. The rye pales I've done with over 20% come out with a pretty sharp rye character - certainly not what I would describe as malty and sweet.

 

[Calypso]

Yeah not real surprising they're very different beers. 1.066 to 1.052 alone is a decent difference and would change the BU:GU ratio fairly significantly. Then you used just a lb of rye in the first (was it even mashed?) and 3 1/2 times that in the second which put you at 26% rye. The rye pales I've done with over 20% come out with a pretty sharp rye character - certainly not what I would describe as malty and sweet.

It was mashed in the original, yeah. Rye malt and Munich apparently have enough diastatic power to convert themselves. Not sure if the others contributed any sugars.