Brew times getting shorter? Sign of the times?

[shoreman]

Just wanted to put this out there for discussion. I've been noticing a lot of "Short & Shoddy", 15 minute brews, 30 minute boil/mash, no boil, no chill, grain to glass in 7 days, raw ale, etc lately in home brewing and wondering what's going on with this rush to get the beer brewed, packaged in such a short span of time. I'm just as guilty of it myself and did a rye mild recently with 30 min mash & 30 minute boil after listening to an Experimental Brewing Podcast.

Now that my kegs and bottles are filled, I'm looking for a good old brew day where I'm lugging all the gear out and spending an entire saturday brewing.

I've brewing brewing going on 15 years and have been noticing this time crunch in the hobby as of late - are people just really stretched for time lately? I know I am and a brew day can take up and entire weekend day but that's also the beauty of it right?

Thoughts?

 

[schematix]

Regarding the grain to glass time, i think it's people realizing that the old advice of leave it for "X Weeks" primary and "Y Weeks" in secondary is flawed. The beer is ready when it's at final gravity, and for many beers, notably moderate gravity ales, primary fermentation is done in 2-3 days. It doesn't get any better sitting in a fermenter. Rack to a keg, carbonate, chill, and enjoy fresher. It's also very possible to have great lagers grain to glass in 2-3 weeks.

I know, there are some exceptions to this.

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

I don't feel the need to shortcut the actual brewing steps (mash, boil, whirlpool, etc.) but I would like to cut down my setup, tear down and cleaning time.

I still take my time with the brewing itself. Heck I did a RIS in January with a 90 minute mash and a 3 hour boil! That beer won't be ready until late summer.

My IPA's, however, I am rushing from fermenter to glass because I think they pop more on the palate.

 

[bronzdragon]

My brewing session has actually gotten longer because I'm starting to do 90 minute mashes instead of 60. I have noticed that my extraction has went up significantly. As far as the primary and secondary argument, I will not bring that back up. I will just say that that I'm still following the same fermentation schedule that has served me well for 20 years and has won me a wall full of ribbons. To each his own.
/cheers

 

[Sailingeric]

I brewed yesterday and it took about 5 hours from start to finish but during the time of mashing, sparging, heating up the water or wort, I do other things- yard work, laundry, go the store. I don't need to sit there and stare at my mash tun for an hour while it is sitting there.

 

[ESBrewer]

Not going to cut short in the process, but I agree with schematix about the loong periods in the primary (or secondary). Beers should be brewed with patience, but most beers probably won't benefit from several weeks of aging in the fermenter. Bottle carbonation needs some time, though, and it is good to give a bit too much time in the bottle than a bit too little.

 

[schematix]

Example...

On Friday I brewed a mother-of-all IPAs. Brew day was 7 hours start to finish.

I pitched 2 packs of US-05 w/o rehydrating at 1pm that day. Temp held at 65F.

The actual gravity measurements were:

T: + 0 hours 16.6 °P, 1.068
T: +10 to 20 hours visible signs of fermentation beginning.
T: +50 hours 9.5 °P, 1.038
T: +58 hours 7.2 °P, 1.029
T: +66 hours 5.7 °P, 1.022

At this rate i expect the beer will be at or near final gravity T: +75 hours. That's only *3 days* to chew through what i expect will be a 7% beer. Barely enough time to dry hop!

 

[myelo]

I think everybody draws their own line in regards to "shortcuts".

Extract is a shortcut to all-grain. Kegging is a shortcut to bottle carbonation. Using malted grains is a shortcut compared to malting your own grains. Buying grains and hops is a shortcut over growing your own. On and on.

As with any hobby, how much time each person is able and willing to spend varies. For me, I would love to spend an entire day brewing -- I enjoy it and find it's relaxing. However, if I could only brew when I had an entire day free, my brew days would be few and far between. When I'm retired and the kids are gone maybe it will be different. I'm thinking about growing some hops and barley. But I don't want to wait until then so in the meantime I take some shortcuts.

 

[TheAleRunner]

Brew day was 7 hours start to finish.

Just curious, what in the brew day can possibly make it 7 hours long?

I did a double brew yesterday, IPA and a kettle sour, and total time from heating of the first strike water to final cleanup was 4 hours 10 minutes. 60 minute mash on both, though the kettle sour was no sparge, and I'll still have to give it a quick boil in a couple days after the lacto does its thing. Mashed on the second beer while the first was boiling. I find that's an efficient use of my time. But I can't imagine what I'd have to do to stretch my brew day for a single beer out to 7 hours.

 

[shoreman]

As with any hobby, how much time each person is able and willing to spend varies. For me, I would love to spend an entire day brewing -- I enjoy it and find it's relaxing.

I definitely agree, I wonder if this is more prevalent these days though - or are people brewing more beer to have on hand?

 

[Bubbles2]

I went through my notes and saw that my first brew was 14 days to bottle, 3 weeks in the bottle. Now it's 3 weeks on the cake. 1-2 days in secondary pending on recipe adds. 3 weeks in the bottle. I've noticed a better taste on the longer setting brews on the cake. FWIW.

Brew takes 3 hours start to finish include clean (using DME) Bottle takes 2 hours include cleaning.

When I get down to 2.5 cases on hand I brew more. I like to have 8 cases setting around, that is good to stay ahead if only doing a couple beers a day considering aging, fermenting etc. Nice to have a variety.

 

[SoCal-Doug]

The hobby is starting to realize that not all brews "require" a certain mash or boil time. A select few benefit from multiple mash steps which can lengthen a brew day. It's pretty easy with a refractometer to determine if you have reached peak conversion, and don't need to mash any further. If maximum efficiency is not on your radar, you can speed up the sparge, do a no sparge, or a simple BIAB and be done with it. All methods are capable or brewing good beers.

Most brews can be done fermenting in 4 to 7 days. Some may take a little longer, it all depends on the recipe, temps and the yeast. I haven't used a secondary in over 10 years. The consensus is there is more risk than gain and I agree with that. When it's done, keg it, chill it, and get it carbonating. If you want to use finings, great, by the time its done carbonating the settled schmutz should be at the bottom ready to pour off. Want it faster? over charge the thing and shake the hell out of it.

There are some beers that need some time in the keg. A Kolsch is a good example. They are very drinkable when first carb'ed but absolutely do change for the better in weeks to follow.

IMHO it's whatever floats the brewers boat. I normally recommend that a new brewer, or someone with very limited equipment and tools, stick with a plan until knowledge is gained and the equipment is available to speed things up. It's better to know when and why you can speed things up, rather than arbitrarily skip something.

 

[shoreman]

The hobby is starting to realize that not all brews "require" a certain mash or boil time. A select few benefit from multiple mash steps which can lengthen a brew day. It's pretty easy with a refractometer to determine if you have reached peak conversion, and don't need to mash any further. If maximum efficiency is not on your radar, you can speed up the sparge, do a no sparge, or a simple BIAB and be done with it. All methods are capable or brewing good beers.

Good points - do you think the highly modified modern malts play into this as well? Also that a lot of hopping these days in hop forward beers tends to happen in the last 15 min of boil to keg?

 

[Jayjay1976]

Regarding the grain to glass time, i think it's people realizing that the old advice of leave it for "X Weeks" primary and "Y Weeks" in secondary is flawed. The beer is ready when it's at final gravity, and for many beers, notably moderate gravity ales, primary fermentation is done in 2-3 days. It doesn't get any better sitting in a fermenter. Rack to a keg, carbonate, chill, and enjoy fresher. It's also very possible to have great lagers grain to glass in 2-3 weeks.

I know, there are some exceptions to this.

I'd be interested in links to some info on shorter time to great lagers. The long fermentation is what keeps me away from trying a lager yeast. I've been experimenting with fermenting lager-like ales using 2565 Koelsch yeast @56, but it still seems to take a while.

 

[enkamania]

I do a short mash, been too scared to try a short boil, but maybe work up the courage in the near future

 

[schematix]

Just curious, what in the brew day can possibly make it 7 hours long?

I did a double brew yesterday, IPA and a kettle sour, and total time from heating of the first strike water to final cleanup was 4 hours 10 minutes. 60 minute mash on both, though the kettle sour was no sparge, and I'll still have to give it a quick boil in a couple days after the lacto does its thing. Mashed on the second beer while the first was boiling. I find that's an efficient use of my time. But I can't imagine what I'd have to do to stretch my brew day for a single beer out to 7 hours.

Rough timeline in hours:

T: +0.00 - 0.50, 30 mins: pre-boil water, chill it, mill grains (i do low oxygen process)
T: +0.50 - 0.75, 15 mins: mash in, 1 GPM
T: +0.75 - 1.25, 30 mins: beta rest
T: +1.25 - 1.75, 30 mins: alpha rest
T: +1.75 - 2.25, 30 mins: mash out
T: +2.25 - 2.75, 30 mins: lauter and bring to boil
T: +2.75 - 3.75, 60 mins: boil
T: +3.75 - 4.75, 60 mins: hop steep
T: +4.75 - 5.25, 30 mins: settle
T: +5.25 - 5.5, 15 minutes: rack to ferm and pitch yeast
T: +5.5-7: finish cleaning, wash towels, put away instruments, clean glassware, etc

 

[Bubbles2]

I stay away from Lager yeast because I do not have an environment to regulate temp at 50° for a length of time. Hence the name Lager... laggin'.

 

[schematix]

I'd be interested in links to some info on shorter time to great lagers. The long fermentation is what keeps me away from trying a lager yeast. I've been experimenting with fermenting lager-like ales using 2565 Koelsch yeast @56, but it still seems to take a while.

I don't really have a link. Just picked some things up.

If i could pinpoint 2 things that really shortened the time:
1. Pitch a ridiculous amount of yeast. I will pitch several hundred mL of thick slurry to a 12 Plato lager.
2. Lager at 30F

It also helps to naturally carbonate ("spund") in the keg. That shaves off force carbonation days and gives you a better product with better shelf life.

 

[SoCal-Doug]

Good points - do you think the highly modified modern malts play into this as well? Also that a lot of hopping these days in hop forward beers tends to happen in the last 15 min of boil to keg?

I don't think that was a major factor, but when I started brewing, extracts and under-modified malts ruled the market still. Having a greater selection of well modified malts was a big help.

I think as the hobby became more popular, more craft brewers emerged and thus supplies and availability increased, equipment was easier and cheaper to build and buy, and there were more people trying more things, eyebrows were lifted and amateur as well as professional experiments and results followed. More people were asking "why?" and "prove it!" In short, especially as the internet grew, the knowledge base grew exponentially.

15 or 20 years ago, I don't remember people talking about SMM and DMS and how malts like Pilsner were more of a culprit for producing it than other malts. We just accepted things like "always boil at least 60 minutes" and "always mash for an hour" and "use tincture of iodine to test it" and "always ferment below 70". Now we understand things like refractometers, pH control, and that certain yeasts like Saison's really like to be fermented in the high 80's for the correct flavors to develop. Years ago, we didn't fully realize how adjusting our water profiles could make a good beer great. We used to just chuck a can of liquid malt in a pot, boil it, pour it into an old sparklets bottle we "forgot" to return, then dumped a pack of whatever yeast in it. Airlocks were a piece of saran wrap and a rubber band.

I think we all just got a little smarter through information exchange and the really nerdy scientific types doing what they do best and sharing their discoveries with us. Sometimes I wonder what home brewing will be like 10 years from now.

 

[SoCal-Doug]

I'd be interested in links to some info on shorter time to great lagers. The long fermentation is what keeps me away from trying a lager yeast. I've been experimenting with fermenting lager-like ales using 2565 Koelsch yeast @56, but it still seems to take a while.

jayjay... try something simple. do a kolsch. 75% german pilsner, 25% Vienna. 150 mash. boil for a good 75 minutes. A little spalt hops at 60 mins and nothing else. Chuck in some WLP029 (way higher flocculation than 2565, that stuff just doesn't clear) and keep it around 60 degrees if you can (65 or so wont be the end of the world). It will be done in a week, maybe ten days. Keg it, chill it, carb it. whirlfloc and gelatine if you want it really clear quickly. A week later, try it. It will be good! In another week, it will be even better (if it lasts that long). Nope, its not a true lager or a Goffel, but simple recipes like that can be a solution to not buying a lot of equipment and waiting months for your libations.

I'm an bigtime Urquel/Riesdorf (and similar) fan, but don't have the patience or motivation for decoctions and months in the fridge

 

[kh54s10]

Sure you can safely bottle your beer as soon as the gravity is stable. I am one of those that still feel that the yeast do some clean up in the "off flavors" created during the active fermentation. Also a couple of days is insurance that you are truly at FG. How long this takes is debatable. IMO, about 2-3 days.

I do agree that the 1 week primary, 1 or two week secondary and 3 weeks bottle conditioning is out dated.

Primary is done when the yeast have finished the job. Secondary, in most cases, is unnecessary. Bottle conditioning: see below.

I do 14 days primary, look to see if it has cleared sufficiently, I am now cold crashing for 2 or 3 more days. Then bottling. (my Kegerator is in storage at the moment).

3 week bottle conditioning is where I don't see any opportunity for significant time savings. I have had some that had carbonation at one week, most have some carbonation at 2 weeks. IMO, ALL of my bottled beers have tasted better at 3 weeks and big beers much longer than that.

 

[SoCal-Doug]

Cold crashing in some cases will slightly speed up settling, but if kegging, its going to be cold crashed anyway (assuming you like your kegged beer cold). The settled schmutz at the bottom of the keg will be removed by the first couple pours. If you want to settle it out more before bottling, crashing can help and be done a couple or few days before bottling. The other reason for cold crashing is to cause chill haze, thence removing most of the chill haze by gelatin or other finings.

Other than clearing a little before bottling, or pre-fining crashing, I can't think of a reason to cold crash. A wheat beer (hef, wit, etc) or recipe intended on remaining hazy and cloudy, probably does not need to be crashed and most people say those are best consumed fresh.

 

[knotquiteawake]

Shortest I have been able to get brewday is about 4 and a half hours. Shorter is better because I've got a couple small kids and my cohort of assistant brewers also have small kids. We cannot leave the wife with the kids on a Saturday longer than is absolutely necessary and likely will involve a trading of Honey-Do List items. Seems there's always a long list of things that are not brewing that will take over. So if its between a 5-6 hours brewday or a 4 hour brew day I have to go for the 4. Thats why I haven't tried multi-step mashes or decoctions yet. Perhaps in a few years when the kids will either help or all be off doing whatever it is kids are into those days.

I would brew at night after everyone is in bed but I can only brew outdoors after dark (after the kids are in bed) in the winter when the bugs are dead. Otherwise here in North Texas, right next to a lake, there are thousands and thousands of flying insects who love lights and flying into anywhere you don't want them to.
The only way I'm brewing after dark would be a partial mash indoors maybe. Its an option, just not my favorite.

 

[sbsmann]

Just did a 6 hour simple AG Amber on Saturday in 40 degree temps outside. Fly sparged and took my time. Should have had a cigar, but forgot. Good times. Wished it was longer.

 

[Leapsandbounds]

Just wanted to put this out there for discussion. I've been noticing a lot of "Short & Shoddy", 15 minute brews, 30 minute boil/mash, no boil, no chill, grain to glass in 7 days, raw ale, etc lately in home brewing and wondering what's going on with this rush to get the beer brewed, packaged in such a short span of time. I'm just as guilty of it myself and did a rye mild recently with 30 min mash & 30 minute boil after listening to an Experimental Brewing Podcast.

Now that my kegs and bottles are filled, I'm looking for a good old brew day where I'm lugging all the gear out and spending an entire saturday brewing.

I've brewing brewing going on 15 years and have been noticing this time crunch in the hobby as of late - are people just really stretched for time lately? I know I am and a brew day can take up and entire weekend day but that's also the beauty of it right?

Thoughts?

I have small children and can only brew after they go to sleep. Also, I rarely see my wife as we work opposite days so when she gets home at night it’s really our only time together. Essentially, I have a very small window to brew and 60 minute boils are harder to squeeze in.

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

Cutting a 60 minute mash and 60 minute boil in half to test the limits only saves an hour. I brew when I know I have a full day of nothing planned so an extra hour doesn't matter much to me.

Grain to glass is my concern as I always seem to brew as I'm running out of beer. I find G to G in 10 days makes a great beer. Still hard to believe that 10 years ago anything under 6 weeks was "green" You rarely even hear that term anymore.

 

[schematix]

I am one of those that still feel that the yeast do some clean up in the "off flavors" created during the active fermentation.

I experienced something similar in my earlier brewing days as well. There was unquestionable benefit to aging beers out because they tasted green. This aging did come at the expense of oxidation though, which was especially detrimental to IPAs.

But these days i'm finding with all the other improvements I've made i actually don't create off flavors to begin with and thus don't have anything to age away.

I was just drinking a sample of my IPA at 80 hours since pitching that still has 8-10 points to go, and if it weren't for the chunkies i'd pour a glass right now its so damn good. Not even a hint of 'green beer' flavor. I bet by Saturday (8 days from pitching) i'm drinking it fully carbonated and cold.

 

[thehaze]

I do 90 minutes mashes and 90 minutes boils. I use a Grainfather Connect and live in Europe, which means I have the 240V version. Latest brew days were around 5.5 hours, from the moment I turned the heat element on until the moment the Grainfather was washed and rinsed and ready for the next brew ( usually just right after the first one or the next day ). 5.5 hours is very good for me and the system. When I first started with a friend that also had a Grainfather, it took 8-9 hours for one batch of 4.5 gallons. Now I do it myself and it takes significantly less time and I almost always get 6 gallons of beer in the bottle per batch. So, I'm pretty happy.

My latest batches were brewed on the 8, 9 and 10th of March. I am today bottling the one from the 10th ( already cold crashed for 2 days! ), tomorrow one from the 9th and hopefully in the next 5 days, I will be bottling the rest of 3 batches. Mainly session-ish beers, light in colour, between 4.6 and 5.8% ABV. I too want to enjoy them sooner than I did in the past. If I am patient enough, I give them 10 days in the fermenter. Fermentation takes 3-5 days and I give the yeast 5 days more to clean after itself. Cold crash if needed, add gelatin if needed and bottle. Fresh, bright, low ABV beers carbonate in 5-6 days and are already good there. Day 10 is peak.

 

[jrgtr42]

What holds me up from brewing more is brewday times. I still run a propane burner, so it takes time to get up to temps.
with an almost-3 year old running around, SWMBO doesn't like me spending all day in the basement brewing too often. I found long ago that a longer time in fermenter gives me better results, from a session pale ale to big quads and impy stouts, 2 weeks leaves me off flavors. I give 3 weeks and do fine. I keep tabs a couple times a day for the fist few, then leave it be for the rest, I don't even open it till it's bottling time (I don't get those folks who check gravity every day - lots of opportunity for infection and a lot of wasted beer.)

 

[thehaze]

Bigger beers, do benefit from staying longer in the fermenter, true. Much more going on in there to simply rush the process, especially with a big ABV beer. But then again, a big beer is not something you drink every day and more than one at once.

There is no need to take gravity readings every day. 2 gravity readings would be enough. If you have brewed a few batches, you kinda have an idea how a certain yeast will perform in a certain wort. You can also " guess " how many days it needs fermenting and resting, and starting from there, you will draw the first reading, most probably when the fermentation is done. The second a few days apart just to be sure.