Brew Off!!

[Devantf]

This past weekend, my friend and I, decided we should have a brew off. While discussing our attempted style of choice, a friend of ours requested we do a traditional english bitter.

Originally our brew off was to be a same recipe, same equipment (more or less), see which beer is better in the end. (not judged by any "professionals", just our buds or any other impartial judges that are willing participants)

But after doing some recipe research, I am discovering what a loose style "english bitter" seems to be. That made me consider if our brew off was formulated properly. It could be lots of fun to change the competition to see who was able to brew from the ground up, so to speak, and make a better bitter (with the added bonus that we wouldn't be making two similar batches).

So, I figured that you all could help me with this small dilemma I am now facing. So should the brew off be a technical competition or a recipe competition?

I can see positives and negatives to both competition formats:
Technical
(+) Better indication of technique mastery
(+) easier to judge
(-) 2 similar batches made (what if they both suck?!?)

Stylistic (specific rules will have to be ironed out of course)
(+) adds another dimension to the competition
(-) more difficult to judge
(-) may not have a decisive winner

I would appreciate any comments or past experiences people have had with these types of friendly competitions and specific pros/cons for us to consider.

Thanks!!

 

[Beermaker]

I would base it on final product. A blind taste by a non involved member. This would also showcase your recipe and techique. Or enter them both in a competition and go head to head.

 

[Devantf]

If we would do the individual recipe route, should we make a limited range on #'s of grain, hop oz., yeast strains to keep them somewhat similar and comparable?

 

[avibayer]

I think technical would be interesting, measuring mash efficiency and OG/FG, and then having the blind taste test. But, i like the idea of tweaking recipes. My concern with the recipe route, is i am not very familiar with english bitters, never having had one. So, it puts me at a disadvantage.

I just had another idea, but its a bit more extreme. Have our non brewing friends order a bunch of ingredients, and come up with the best from whatever comes. Give them parameters, like this much base malt, this many more lbs whatever, so much of any hops, and whatever yeast.

is that too crazy? it removes a lever of competition, as either dev or i could claim it was all we had. It sound fun, but maybe not competition worthy.

For now, my two cents are for the technical, but i am open to more ideas.

beermaker, you mentioned submitting them? to where? are there beer competitions in new york, or somewhere on the east coast?

 

[Gremlyn]

I would go techincal and base it off the bitter style. Yeah, it's pretty broad, but to make it REALLY work you have to be good with the technique regardless of the recipe used. Can't jst throw any ol' recipe together and call it a good Bitter...

 

[Beermaker]

There are beer competitions all over the US pretty much all year long.

 

[avibayer]

Ok.

First, can someone suggest a commercial bitter for me to try, so i have a sense of the style?

second, where can i find out more about the competitions?

 

[Devantf]

I just had another idea, but its a bit more extreme. Have our non brewing friends order a bunch of ingredients, and come up with the best from whatever comes. Give them parameters, like this much base malt, this many more lbs whatever, so much of any hops, and whatever yeast.

maybe another time... right now lets put this dog to sleep and iron out how this brew off will go down.

 

[Yuri_Rage]

You're going to have a hard time judging technicalities by getting a bunch of your friends together to determine a winner. Lacking a BJCP judging panel, make it simple:

Make a scoresheet to give to your "judges." Assign point values based on what you think is important. Give a brief description of each attribute. Best score wins. For example:

Appearance - Rate on a scale of 0-5
Clarity, color, head, lacing

Aroma - Rate on a scale of 0-5
Malt, hops, spices, etc

Flavor - Rate on a scale of 0-5
Malt, hops, spices, etc

Mouthfeel - Rate on a scale of 0-5
Carbonation, body

Overall Impression - Rate on a scale of 0-5
General like/dislike, drinkability

 

[avibayer]

well, sleep on the poll, and see what the morning brings for numbers. but as it stands, technical, same recipe looks like the choice. Still wish i knew what to expect from the bitter.

I think for the technical, grain build must be the same, and hop quantity and type as well. yeast the same for both.

could either of our houses allow us to do it simultaneously. space/hoses/ etc.

is there flexibility in how much and for how long we run our starters?

are we allowed to do different hop schedule during boil?

is the mash thickness supposed to be the same, or is it brewers choice?

some things i was thinking. :banana:

 

[avibayer]

yuri, great call on the score sheet.

 

[DRoyLenz]

This just gave me a cool idea for a video blog show or something.

The format would be like Iron Chef, but instead of a secret ingredient, it would be a secret style, with only limited selections of various malts, grains, hops and yeast types. Each contestant only has 4 - 6 hours to formulate a recipe and brew (maybe including wort chilling/pitching).

Have a panel of BJCP Certified Judges rate the beers after a few weeks. You could even have a group of "Iron Brewers" who are known across the brewing community for the challengers to challenge.

Sounds like fun, eh?

 

[avibayer]

Yeah. Iron chef is what gave me the idea to have our friends order the ingredients, and we make the best of what we have. I do like the time limit on the brewing, but how can you apply that to yeast starters? or would the time frame be limited to wort/pitching?

 

[riverfrontbrewer]

My $.02-

I think it should be judged by whats in the glass.....most people could make up great "hypothetical" recipies by using beer software, but what really matters is the final product.

Sounds Fun!

 

[Catch-22]

How I would do it would be like Iron chef. Predetermined ingredients and the same water only. The ability of the brewer would then be showcased. Boddingtons Pub Draught is an example of an ordinary bitter. Yellow can

 

[Gremlyn]

Pick up a Fuller's ESB at BevMo. If you want a TRUE ESB, you need to go with imported English versions, anything from an American brewery that is labeled ESB is always far too hoppy to be in style IMO (though not necessarily bad, just not true to style).

For ordinary bitter, try Boddington's as mentioned above, or Tetley's.

 

[Devantf]

Awesome feedback guys!

I like the idea to truly follow the iron chef format. Question would be what would the limitations be on ingredients?

Available malts:
English pale, Crystal, Biscuit

Available hops:
Goldings, Challenger, Fuggles

Agree on a single yeast strain? (recommended strains 1318, 1275,1099,1968 from my handy wyeast culture collection pamphlet)

other additions?
irish moss? gelatin? water treatment?

 

[DRoyLenz]

I would say, if you TRULY wanted iron chef format, you would find neutral third party, who is also a brewer, so they know what ingredients to order, then order the ingredients, in bulk, for a certain style beer, but not tell you the style. You would then only find out the style at the beginning of the brew off.

This of course has a few limitations:
- If you have your heart set on the ESB style, this wouldn't work
- You would really have to be pretty knowledgeable about all of the BJCP style guidelines to be able to formulate a recipe.

What you could do is find a list of, say, agree to 10 styles from the BJCP guidelines. Your neutral third party would pick one of those styles, and order the ingredients. While he is doing so, you and your friend would start studying. Learn those 10 styles backwards and forwards. Then when the brew-off starts, the secret style is revealed, and you are given your list of available ingredients, and you have a certain time limit to use your knowledge, and the available ingredients, to make a beer as close to style as possible.

This actually sounds like A LOT of fun, and a GREAT way to learn the different styles of beer.

 

[avibayer]

I dont follow. If the grain ordered is the all the same, where does variation come in? Maybe i need to watch iron chef a bit more. In the time frame, we learn all the ten styles, find out which grain we have, then mash the grain we are given?

 

[ChshreCat]

I dont follow. If the grain ordered is the all the same, where does variation come in? Maybe i need to watch iron chef a bit more. In the time frame, we learn all the ten styles, find out which grain we have, then mash the grain we are given?

Oh, you can get a lot of variation with the exact same recipe and ingredients. Change your mash temp a few degrees. Or fermentation temp. Change how you boil so you end up with more or less melanoidin formation. Even fermenter shape can affect the outcome of a brew.

I've talked with some folks on here about a bunch of us brewing the exact same recipe and entering it in the same comp, and then comparing our score sheets afterwards to see how our own process, local water, etc changed the beer for better or for worse.

 

[Catch-22]

Oh, you can get a lot of variation with the exact same recipe and ingredients. Change your mash temp a few degrees. Or fermentation temp. Change how you boil so you end up with more or less melanoidin formation. Even fermenter shape can affect the outcome of a brew.

I've talked with some folks on here about a bunch of us brewing the exact same recipe and entering it in the same comp, and then comparing our score sheets afterwards to see how our own process, local water, etc changed the beer for better or for worse.

It is for that reason that I generally don't subscribe to the whole clone recipe theory. Everyone's process, equipment etc... are different. A "clone" may get you in the ballpark but tweaking and dialing in your process is what will make you a better brewer. That is why the iron chef format is best. IMHO

 

[DRoyLenz]

Oh, you can get a lot of variation with the exact same recipe and ingredients. Change your mash temp a few degrees. Or fermentation temp. Change how you boil so you end up with more or less melanoidin formation. Even fermenter shape can affect the outcome of a brew.

I've talked with some folks on here about a bunch of us brewing the exact same recipe and entering it in the same comp, and then comparing our score sheets afterwards to see how our own process, local water, etc changed the beer for better or for worse.

There is a lot of truth in this, but there is more variation than I think I made clear. For the brewer who is ordering the supplies, they are going to know what the main base malts are going to be for the given style, so he would order enough for say, 2.5 - 3 batches. He would also order a certain amount of other grains that might go well in there. The idea being that each competitor will have enough grains to develop their own recipe. Yes, you will end up with extra grains at the end. You will have to buy more than you need. But I have a feeling that after the competition, you guys can divide it up amongst yourselves for future brews.

For example, if the secret style was an ESB, maybe the moderator would order the following grain bill:

20 lbs British Pale Ale Malt
1.5 lb Crystal 20L
1.5 lb Crystal 40L
1.5 lb Crystal 60L
1.5 lb Crystal 80L
3 lbs Flaked Corn

2 oz Target Hops
4 oz Kent Goldings Hops
1 oz Fuggles Hops

The idea being that for each ingredient, you order enough for at least 2 batches. This may get kind of expensive, so go your own route if you want, but this seems like it would be very challenging, a lot of fun, and if you recorded it, and edited it later, it would make a GREAT vlogcast.

 

[avibayer]

Awesome. This is what i was trying to describe before, but i'm glad you guys could articulate it better. dev, still think this is a bit too complicated, or the most fun idea ever?

one problem, is we dont have a third party brewer to order the grain. Our friends are drinkers, not brewers. we could just do the comp, and leave the surprise element out of the mix.

 

[avibayer]

I also like the idea of recording the event. sounds like a lot of brewing fun.

 

[Devantf]

I dont have a video camera, but that might be fun.... otherwise im ordering ingredients today. we will iron out the details.

updates and results to be posted once we get rolling

 

[Devantf]

On one very special Friday the 13th, the most epic of brew battles has begun! Not rain nor heavy winds were able to stop us. Hence, inside of my compatriots garage, WE BREW!

It doesnt promise to be a quick battle, but one that requires endurance, wit, and finesse.

THE ARENA

preparations

It could get ugly!

 

[avibayer]

Brew off 2009. ESB delight

 

[JefeTheVol]

I think if you had different judges each scoring different parts of the comp...One set of judges for technical, the other for recipe and another for finished product. Or all the judges could judge the final product but they MUST be blinded about what they're tasting...they cant know from which recipe/technique they are tasting.
-Jeff-

 

[avibayer]

jeff,

your dead on. so, it will take six weeks, but when the beers are all fermented and matured, then we will both bottle, and i was thinking labeling them A an B. then our friends would judge them. the problem is, our friends are not brewers or even beer proficient.

The brewing last night was real fun, and real silly.

 

[avibayer]

competitors

spectators

Things getting crazy

I may have just farted on liz.

 

[avibayer]

I wanted to post, just so i could have a record. my OG was about 1.054 i think. i was kinda drunk by that point.