Brew Like A Monk Fermentation Temp/pitching rate Discussion

[deputyandy]

Just got finished reading this book. Great read with lots of interesting insight into Belgians. The part i found very intriguing was the section on fermentation temperature. It seemed there was a wide range of theories/practices associated with using Belgian yeast strains. Off the top of my head, I think Russian River and Ommegang favor a slow ramp up in temperature, starting off in the high fifties to low 60s and finishing attenuation in the high 70s. Conversely, Jolly Pumpkin let's the beer ferment in a more natural "if it gets up to the 80s so be it" mentality.

I understand a lot of this is done to control phenolic/ester/fusel production in yeast and its varies from person to person and strain to strain but i just thought i'd get some input from you guys on different methods you've used for what works and what doesn't. The book seems to be saying to me that a slightly underpitched/stressed yeast might be desirable for some belgian ales to make the right flavor profile.

Confused but intrigued.

 

[unionrdr]

Well,under-pitching slightly will,of course,cause less attenuation. Which leaves behind more of the sweet malt flavor,whatever malt style that mat be. Covers a lot of territory (makes me think of Sepultura,one more territory). Higher temps (within range) can make the yeast produce various flavors that may be desirable in some styles. Fruity,banana,citrus,etc
Ramping up temps makes for more complete attenuation in some styles,such as high gravity brews.

 

[Urban]

Its been a few years since i read brew like a Monk, but what i remember is that the trappists ales seemed to ferment as long as lagers, some of them used multiple yeast strains/additions, and that the temperature changed mainly with the stage of fermentation, primary, secondary, bottle conditioning, etc. Personally i like to ferment belgian ales on the warmer side and get a little funkyness in there. If its a bigger belgian i suggest pitching a little more yeast (along with the fermentables) prior to bottling.

 

[peregrinebio]

I've brewed a Belgian Golden a couple of times following Russian River's advice. Pitching WLP500 (just the vial, no starter) in the mid-60s and ramping up after a few days in to the mid 70s and I've had great success. A lot of pear esters come out. Even under pitching it dried out to 1.007.

 

[Houblon]

The book seems to be saying to me that a slightly underpitched/stressed yeast might be desirable for some belgian ales to make the right flavor profile.

Thats correct but very hard to get perfect everytime @ home. Those guys have been working with those yeast longer than many of us have been alive so they really know how to get the best results.
YMMV

Pitching WLP500 (just the vial, no starter) in the mid-60s and ramping up after a few days in to the mid 70s and I've had great success. A lot of pear esters come out. Even under pitching it dried out to 1.007.

Better read this thread> http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=6772.msg81775#msg81775

 

[Hammy71]

One thing to remember. These guys were brewing beer well before temperature control. I recall somewhere in the book, the brewer talking about how the fermentation is different in the winter than the summer, and that the beer will have subtle differences. I went the natural way with the dubbel from the book. Started it out in the 60s and let it go. Got into the high 70's. Been bottled for a month and I'm gonna give it a few more before I try it.

 

[peregrinebio]

Better read this thread> http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=6772.msg81775#msg81775

Well those guys must have had a different experience than me. I've ran that recipe twice, once PM, once AG both times with WLP500 in the 70s and I didn't have any banana or nail polish to speak of. Beer was great, scored a 38 at a competition. I was aiming for a Damnation clone and I have a quote somewhere from Vinnie from Russian River talking about ramping up the temp on that beer.

Maybe they took it off the cake too soon. I left mine in primary for 5-6weeks, secondary for another 8-10. The yeast had more time to clean house potentially???

 

[Houblon]

Maybe they took it off the cake too soon. I left mine in primary for 5-6weeks, secondary for another 8-10. The yeast had more time to clean house potentially???

Ok they must not know how to brew.....

Lets see now>
Gordon Strong the current Beer Judge Certification Program (BJCP) President, as well as the world’s only Grand Master Level V Beer Judge. Gordon is also an accomplished home brewer, who won the 2009 Ninkasi award as the American Homebrewer’s Association Winningest Brewer.

Denny Conn, another very well known HB aka Mr.Batch Sparge

Majorvices, aka "always make a starter" another very well known HB and owns his own brewery and uses WLP500 yeast everyday.

If those people warn not to let the temps get too hot I think maybe they're right.
Just sayin

 

[peregrinebio]

Ok they must not know how to brew.....

Lets see now>
Gordon Strong the current Beer Judge Certification Program (BJCP) President, as well as the world’s only Grand Master Level V Beer Judge. Gordon is also an accomplished home brewer, who won the 2009 Ninkasi award as the American Homebrewer’s Association Winningest Brewer.

Denny Conn, another very well known HB aka Mr.Batch Sparge

Majorvices, aka "always make a starter" another very well known HB and owns his own brewery and uses WLP500 yeast everyday.

If those people warn not to let the temps get too hot I think maybe they're right.
Just sayin

Thanks for the biographies. Grand Master Level V Beer Judge huh, is that a lifetime appointment or does it come with a term limit.

Did I infer that they didn’t know how to brew??? I’m aware of who the authors were and they are all very fine brewers, as is Vinnie Cilurzo, I might add. I was just sharing with the OP my first-hand experience and hypothesizing why I may have had different results rather than just passing along something I read on the interwebs.

 

[MattHollingsworth]

The cooler pitch and let it warm up fermentation schedule works great for me.

I've done these semi recently, with great results:

Wyeast 1388: Pitch at 65, raised 2 degrees every 12 hours until I reached 77, then left it there up to the 2 week mark.

Wyeast 1214: Pitched at 64, raised 2 degrees every hour up to 80 and leave there until the 2 week mark.

WLP575: Pitched at 64, let rise on its own and force it up a few times, eventually to 76.

All beers came out great. Soft alcohol even though they were all strong beers. Esters and phenols were nicely balanced in the beers. Nothing was crazy from the warm temps. That cool start does the trick in keeping those down.

Anyway, works for me. It depends on the yeast though. From memory, Westmalle doesn't let theirs get so hot, something like the high 60s if I remember correctly.