Audiacious
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Just found this, and dont do grain brewing as of yet, so could this system just simply be used for extract brewing until i make the move?
Brew Boss Systems
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HLSheppard
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Sure - but the beauty of the Brew Boss is that it makes the move to All-Grain pretty straight forward.
Snicklefritz
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Once you have the system, you've already made the move. The only thing you would need to buy is the grain. But you can brew extract on this as well. That would kind of be like buying a Ferrari that you use just to go to the end of the driveway to get your mail. There are a lot of cheaper ways to boil water for extract brewing.
ibrewmyown
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oops, post
ibrewmyown
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I've been debating getting a hop spider but am leery of not getting the hop utilization if it were confined. I have the 20 gallon COFI system with the auto hop feeder (very nice I must say) so I would need a pretty deep basket because the pot is 20" high so about a gallon an inch. I finish with about 13 gallons of wort so that means its 7" down from the top of the pot to the top of the wort. Doesn't seem like a very good fit for a spider.
Then it hit me the other day. Why not just clean out the COFI filter after the mash is done and drop it back in the kettle? It would let the hops float free, likely keep a lot of the break trapped, prevent the junk from circulating through the pump, etc. You could even recirculate into the basket while chilling and it would trap anything that the pump sucked up.
I don't think there would be any issues. Has anyone ever tried this? I think I'm going to try it on Saturday. With whirlpooling and letting it sit for a few minutes I get very little trub in my stainless conical but the less, the better.
mcgimpkins
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The hop spiders made for Pellets are 300 Micron. I'm pretty sure, but if wrong someone can correct me, the COFI are at least 400 Micron if not larger. If you are using whole leaf hops it is not a big deal, however pellets, you will probably still have some hop debris getting though. Either way, try it and see, then come back and report how it worked for you.
I had an 8"x18" 400 micron hop spider fabricated for my 20 gallon kettle. It cost me $100 from utahbiodieselsupply.com, which depending upon your perspective may be pricey to trap hops. However I viewed it as worth it since it fits my pot well, and can easily dump my hop gunk at the end of the boil.
andrewmaixner
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I thought the awesome thing about conicals was that you can dump the trub easily?
Anyway, you should be fine with that. I use a large BIAB bag for large hops additions, with a recirculation fitting feeding back into it. COFI is one step up from that.
There is a thread on here where someone tried what you propose and the large basket prevents a proper boil, just kinda burps up the side around the basket. I believe that was with a 400u basket, the COFI is 800u but I'd be surprised if the result was any different. You could always do a test run with water...
ibrewmyown
Well-Known Member
I've boiled water with the COFI in the pot when I first got the system cleaning & sterilizing) and it seemed just fine. I emailed Darin at Brew Boss about the idea and he responded right away stating as you said that the COFI is 800 micron. It would trap a lot of "gunk" but fine sediment would definitely get through. He said he just sets the hop spider on the bottom of the pot and said from his experimenting the hop utilization is just fine. with the spider sitting on the bottom, it would be very near fully submerged so it would likely work out very well.
I'll have to give it some more thought. I don't mind the cost (can get a 6" x 14" on Amazon for about $40) but I don't want to add time and effort to the brew day if it doesn't make sense to do so.
ibrewmyown
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The conical (Chronical)is great and its easy to dump the trub, etc. My first time using it, I let way too much "gunk" get into the conical thinking "who cares I'll just dump it later" and that didn't work out as well as I thought. There was so much stuff at the bottom I ended up dumping well over a gallon of volume and it still wasn't all out.
After that, my procedure changed and it has worked out very well. I use an immersion chiller. Call me paranoid but I don't like the idea of not being able to see that something is truly clean. Besides, the way I do it, I don't think it takes much more time than a chill plate of counter flow chiller. Also and another important factor is that a late or "at flameout" hop addition it sitting in boiling wort until it flows through the chiller. depending on how you chill, that can be quite a long time. I also want to get the wort below 140 ASAP and that happens in about 5-10 minutes.
Either way you need to whirlpool to get the sediment in the center. While its whirlpooling, I'm chilling so although it may take a while longer to chill to pitching temp (about 20 minutes), once its there I just disconnect a hose from the recirculating end and put it in my conical which is already in my lagering or temperature controlled freezer. I spray off the chiller and that's it. no worries about cleaning what I cant see in a chill plate or CFC.
Sorry about the long post.....
andrewmaixner
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I see you have a stainless immersion chiller. I had the same concern about not being able to see the chiller surfaces. I ended up, though, having nybrewsupply customize their copper/hose counterflow chiller to use stainless instead of copper. I really wanted an inline counterflow all hooked up (mostly for less size and less mess), and figure that for the minor performance loss, stainless gave me peace of mind versus hidden copper.
I circulate it little at boil temperature to sanitize, and later circulate the hot PBW solution that's going through my entire system anyway, dump that, and spray/circulate clean water, then when done I disconnect the "top" hose and blow the water out.
I'd also note that I can easily adjust temperature for hop stands by turning on the chiller water until it drops to where I want it, turn off the water, and let the element maintain temp temperature. (I presume you basically do the same thing)
Pictures of my setup (BB controller/element, with custom-everything-else, 20 Gal):
https://goo.gl/photos/Wfk4JvD2wohQADsv9
(Another nice thing, the nybrewsupply chiller "garden hose" is actually high-temperature automotive-grade radiator hose, so I don't even have to worry about running it dry, it's designed for higher temperatures that my wort will reach.)
ibrewmyown
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That's a nice compact setup. You got to love the fully automatic BIAB system. My cart has the built in electric hoist so its fully mobile.
I used a home made copper chiller for 10 years or more. I bought the stainless chiller because I just liked the all stainless look to match the rest of eth set up. I knew the stainless performance would not be as good as copper so I went from the 3/8" copper to 1/2" stainless to compensate for it. It works quite well. In the heat of the summer when tap water is probably 10 - 15 degrees warmer than winter, if I really want to chill it fast I'll use my old chiller as a pre-chill in a bucket of ice water. That chills it extremely fast while its whirlpooling.
I've been thinking about an inline oxygenator for a while. I like the idea verse the oxygen tank and submersed stone. This would save a little time verse doing so after the wort was transferred.
Good to know. FWIW, I use a diy spider with a custom WilserBrewer hop bag, it's about twice the size of his standard bag and I'm satisfied with the hop utilization/flavor I'm getting. I also stir the hops inside the bag periodically to help things along. Although I appreciated having one less thing to deal with on brew day, I went back to the spider since I harvest a lot of yeast from the fermenter and I didn't notice any appreciable flavor differences vs. not using it.
I wouldn't hesitate to get the same setup I have now, the basic 15 gal Brew-Boss system + 500u basket from Arbor Fab. For larger beers with more than 16 or 17 lbs of grain I switch to a Wilser bag instead of the basket.
IMO, you will not find or build a better system. The newer version comes with tri-clover which is awesome. What makes this system much better than anything else on the market is the program/app. Some may not like that automation but I don't think it takes away from brewing at all. You can also do the entire brew day manually like you would with a panel system.
Only down side that I find kind of annoying is setting up the perimeters. You can export a BeerSmith file and the app will convert it but I have found it doesn't convert it correctly. There were some errors with hop additions and it completely missed irish moss and yeast nutrients. I'm trying to come up with a better way of doing it. I think what I may do is create a bunch of profiles with different additions (one addition ,two additions three additions and so on). So a batch with just 1 hop addition and nothing else, I'd use the one addition profile. A batch with 2 hop additions, irish moss and yeast nutrient additions, I'd use the 4 additions profile. Just need to change the timing which is easy enough.
MBN
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I sent an email off to Brew Boss yesterday (Sunday) didn't expect an answer as it is Sunday. Nope Darin messaged me back not once but twice. They deff have the customer service end down pat. I saw that they had changed the website around and now all their systems are the custom type set up. You start with the controller then add your bits and bobs from there. I didn't want to bother them anymore on a Sunday but I noticed that if you go from the 10 gal BIAB to the 15 Gal BIAB it's a huge diff in price. It's almost $300 more for the 15 gal version. Anyone have any ideas as to why? Also, it looks like the controller by it's self has gone up in price. I thought it was $575 as a stand alone. I should have bought back when i had first seen this. I'm not complaining about the price, I understand everyone needs to eat.
MBN
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It's under mash method. 10 gal is $134 then 15 gal is $414. Then from 15 to the 20 gal it's only $10 difference. There must be other things included, like a pump ect.
No I would think that is just for the mash process. That selection is just for a false bottom and mesh bag or a mesh basket for 10, 15 and 20 gallons. Nothing extra included. I wonder if the pricing is wrong. A $280 price increase for a slightly bigger false bottom seems extremely high.
HLSheppard
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15 gal. deluxe COFI system here.
I am definitely happy with the purchase and would do it again. Darin is great and super-supportive. I am making great beer (although I am learning the limits of the system, still).
The software and cleanup is SO much easier than my old 2 - 10 gal. Igloo cooler method.
The only issue I have is that I like big beers (9.5% and up). That requires some different tweaks with the Brew Boss than a standard recipe. If I make a 5% APA - it's as simple as can be and the beer is legit.
Let's not forget how nice it is to brew in a nice, cool basement when it's 95 deg. F. outside (and standing around a huge propane burner)!
Borneogoat
Active Member
Just some experiences from my 15gal COFI system brew on the last few brews. I had problems with low efficiency. Bumped my grain crush wider to 1.25mm and went up from 60% to 65-67% BH efficiency, as calculated by Beersmith. Better circulation is a winner here!
Last brew I rinsed my grains after lifting the COFI and bumped up to 72%. First time in the 70's for me and feeling very groovy! More work needed, but on the right track now...
Regarding the grain rinse, I did it hoping for better efficiency and also helped with making a 10gal batch. I couldn't fit 21lbs grain and 14.3gal water in a 15gal kettle .... obviously. So I mashed with all the grain and only about 9gal water. After reaching strike temp with all 14.3gal, I scooped out about 5gal to a holding bucket. When the mash was finished I poured the 5gal over the COFI and continued as normal. Worked great and took almost no extra time. I use a hand pulley, rather than an electric hoist, to lift the COFI. So during the rinse I rested the COFI over the kettle by placing to lengths of square aluminum tube across the kettle kinda like a trivet. This was so smooth I ordered a bigger fermenter yesterday in anticipation of many more 10gal batches!
I could have used this info myself, so maybe it will help somebody else...
Last brew I rinsed my grains after lifting the COFI and bumped up to 72%. First time in the 70's for me and feeling very groovy! More work needed, but on the right track now...
Regarding the grain rinse, I did it hoping for better efficiency and also helped with making a 10gal batch. I couldn't fit 21lbs grain and 14.3gal water in a 15gal kettle .... obviously. So I mashed with all the grain and only about 9gal water. After reaching strike temp with all 14.3gal, I scooped out about 5gal to a holding bucket. When the mash was finished I poured the 5gal over the COFI and continued as normal. Worked great and took almost no extra time. I use a hand pulley, rather than an electric hoist, to lift the COFI. So during the rinse I rested the COFI over the kettle by placing to lengths of square aluminum tube across the kettle kinda like a trivet. This was so smooth I ordered a bigger fermenter yesterday in anticipation of many more 10gal batches!
I could have used this info myself, so maybe it will help somebody else...
I actually find this system to be much more time consuming for cleaning. Before this I had a pot with no valve (so it was just a simple pot) and cooler mash tun. I would spray out the pot and wipe it down. Empty the mash tun and do the same thing (spray and wipe). With this system I now have bulkheads to worry about, valves, pump, CFC and tubing. This isn't a BB issue. Any system with valves and pumps will have a longer cleaning time than a simple pot and cooler set up. There is just more to clean. I also take apart my 3 piece valve and pump after each brew.
Beavdowg
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I got my system back in January and am wondering if there's a software/firmware upgrade that I need to know about? The website shows how to upload an update but, honestly, sounds like a bit of a PITA, coming from someone that's not super computer knowledgable. I have version 1.24. Is the version I have the current version?
Thanks.
Thanks.
mcgimpkins
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As of me writing this, the current version is 1.29. You can check out the app version on the Google Play Store. I am assuming you are using an Android tablet. If you want to upgrade go to Google Play on your tablet then search for "brew boss" and you will find the latest version.
I've had nothing but good experiences from updating to the latest version, however some others on here have had problems, so it is up to you if you want to update, or if everything is working well and you are happy with the program, then maybe you should stick to your current version. It is your choice.
HLSheppard
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Makes sense. I had two coolers and a Spike kettle all with valves, thermometers plus a hop spider, etc. With BB, I just rinse the trub and crap out. Then fill with PBW and run the heater to 150 deg. F while circulating and scrubbing - then rinse a few times with plain water. Then I go at it with a sponge and soapy water. It's still a pain - BUT the COFI makes it easy to just dump spent grains and rinse. For me - that's the best part.
I have yet to take my Chugger apart. Is that necessary with my procedure above??
After reading this story from Brulosophy, I may tear my system down completely after every brew.
http://brulosophy.com/2014/11/13/problem-identification-or-helping-a-buddy-stay-in-the-hobby/
I also had a similar find to him. I took my pump head and 3 piece valve apart and found black gunk in both. I do the same as you. Recirculate warm PBW, rinse everything out then recirculate with clean water. I then use a sponge and soap on just my kettle.
HLSheppard
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I actually had that on my 3 piece ball valve on my Spike kettle. Taught me a lesson, for sure! The Brew Boss is my first experience with a pump... I guess you just saved me from learning that lesson again.
I actually had that on my 3 piece ball valve on my Spike kettle. Taught me a lesson, for sure! The Brew Boss is my first experience with a pump... I guess you just saved me from learning that lesson again.
It takes me no longer than 45 seconds to take the head all apart. Another couple minutes cleaning. Another 45 seconds putting it all back together. Time well spent. I also let the pump head and ball valve dry over night.
I really wish I had waited to get my BB system so I could have bought it with tri-clover fittings. Now I need to either buy a new kettle from him or have tri-clover fittings welded on to my kettle. I just don't know any place around me that would do that kind of job.
andrewmaixner
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Every time I start to get annoyed while taking apart 20 TC connections and TC-disassembly ball valves after a brew day, I remember that article.
I probably really should take apart the pump head and check it, just in case, even though I do recirculate 160F PBW through it after brewing...
You have 20 connections?!?! Damn lol
I do the same thing and still found black gunk in my pump and valve. I never did before. When I opened both up there was a good amount of black gunk in both.
andrewmaixner
Well-Known Member
almost... A couple connections are still silicone hose clamped to stainless tube, but most my my recirculating-eBIAB is triclamped.
Snicklefritz
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I've taken to removing the pump head completely after cleanup and storing it with the rest of my TC fittings and element inside the kettle as well. Even with PBW and starsan recirculation I would still see some gross stuff in there after a few weeks of not using it. I drank one too many "mystery ingredient" beers that i finally decided to make that part of my cleanup routine. Its worth noting that I still drank the beer that was produced by those tainted batches and didnt really pick up any noticeable off flavors or infections, but in my head i still knew it was mold beer. It takes a few extra minutes and guarantees the next time you fire up the pump that a bunch of **** doesn't fly out into your kettle.
It really makes me wonder about the inside of my CFC though.
Snicklefritz
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Not only would I, but I have. I've purchased 3 different systems from Darin now as he has evolved. Started out with his first 'picoBrew' system to the new 20G COFI style system and couldn't be happier. Not only is the equipment top notch but the support you receive is second to none. I've had a few service issues with mine (mostly caused by my error) and Darin was quick to help me get back up and running.
If you are in the market for this type of system, you cant go wrong with the Brew Boss.
That said, I feel the COFI option is a bit overpriced. I had a custom basket designed and made my own COFI style sparge arm from some copper tubing and a camlock. I think I had about $350 into my basket solution where the COFI is quite a bit more (I know what they cost to manufacture and Darin isn't even marking them up any). My basket is a little wider and taller than the original COFI and doesn't have the lid. This allows me to fit about 3-4 more lbs of grain in my basket.
Also, the brew boss can be used for all sorts of fun things. Pasteurizing bottles and sous vide cooking to name a few I've tried so far.
Me too! I'm thinking about getting an IC from Jaded. Not only will it chill quicker but I also can see how clean it is. I hate not seeing how clean the inside of my CFC is. I want to find some kind of brush that would fit through it
mcgimpkins
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You could get this: 1.5 TC Weldless Tank Bulkhead Flange. Although I am not if you would be conformable with a weldless fitting.
15 Minutes before the end of the boil, I start cycling boiling wort through my CFC and back into the pot, to serialize anything in the ball values, hose line, pump, CFC, etc. I then flush with pbw and water after the brew. I take them apart every 5 or 10 brews to just make sure there is not a build up of gunk, but have not notice any.
I was thinking about those until I could get the fittings welded to my pot but that is just more money I would spend just to be replaced later on.
Also there would still be threads for gunk to get into which is what I'm trying to avoid.
ebrooker007
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I think I would prefer a basket over the COFI filter as well. Could you send me the dimensions 3-4 pounds of additional grain sounds great. Anything you would change about your basket?
Schumed
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I'm happy with my purchase and been lucky to have other members of my club buy some of the competitors to compare (Colorado Brewing, Blichman BrewEasy, Pico, Grainfather, and High Gravity) Being able to see these close up has made my purchase feel better.
The Cofi Filter and the software was the difference for me compared to the other systems.
Only think I wasn't blown away by is the whirl pool accessory ...could of easily made something similar and better ..IMO
Darin support is top notch
I'm trying to decide between this and the Colorado Brewing system. I'm curious what advantages do you think the brew boss has over it, since you've seen both? Thanks for the help!
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