Brew Boss Systems

[h22lude]

Has anyone had a stuck mash and have the heating element on with no wort around it? Today the wort was draining from the bag very slowly. I think the bag that comes with the Brew Boss is too big and it caused a blockage. I didn't realize it until a minute or two later. I think my heating element was heating without much wort touching it. I'm not sure the wort is scorched but I hope I didn't ruin the element. Anyone have this happen?

 

[mcgimpkins]

Yeah I actually had this happen with the COFI and a Wheat beer. This was how I learned the value of rice hulls . The beer defiantly had a "burned" taste to it, and I eventually ended up dumping it in the back yard (your beer may be fine). The element cleaned up fine with some BKF and I haven't had any problems with it. As long as your element cleans up and doesn't look damaged or have hot spots, I wouldn't worry too much about it.

I forget are you using a Brew-Boss pot? A complaint I have about the design of them is that it feels like the temp probe placement is too high and should be more in line with the element. Once the probe is surfaced it just starts ramping up the element and burns everything. I'm sure there is a reason for this placement, however I ended up having a pot built with the temp probe at the same height as the heater. I'll take temp reading during the mash and have not noticed any big temp differences.

 

[andrewmaixner]

Has anyone had a stuck mash and have the heating element on with no wort around it? Today the wort was draining from the bag very slowly. I think the bag that comes with the Brew Boss is too big and it caused a blockage. I didn't realize it until a minute or two later. I think my heating element was heating without much wort touching it. I'm not sure the wort is scorched but I hope I didn't ruin the element. Anyone have this happen?

Yes, the bag would seal against the sides of the kettle and the only path for wort was through the bottom. It would then clog sometimes.

Scorched once with no ill effect on an IPA, second time causing a massive boil-over type mess (steam bubbled between side of the bag and the kettle, and a third time I had to dump a batch of 1.110 scotch heavy because the ash smell wouldn't age out after 4 months. The level of burning may get worse with higher sugar worts?

I decided my design was stupid, bought a custom stainless basket from ArborFab. Now the entirety of the basket allows liquid flow, and no issues since then.

Element was always functional, but required major cleaning. Regardless, I also upgraded to an incoloy ripple element, which has half the watt density of the "ULWD" straight elements.

 

[h22lude]

Yeah I actually had this happen with the COFI and a Wheat beer. This was how I learned the value of rice hulls . The beer defiantly had a "burned" taste to it, and I eventually ended up dumping it in the back yard (your beer may be fine). The element cleaned up fine with some BKF and I haven't had any problems with it. As long as your element cleans up and doesn't look damaged or have hot spots, I wouldn't worry too much about it.

I forget are you using a Brew-Boss pot? A complaint I have about the design of them is that it feels like the temp probe placement is too high and should be more in line with the element. Once the probe is surfaced it just starts ramping up the element and burns everything. I'm sure there is a reason for this placement, however I ended up having a pot built with the temp probe at the same height as the heater. I'll take temp reading during the mash and have not noticed any big temp differences.

I think what happened with me is the bag clumped up at the bottom. As soon as I pulled the sides and made the bag tight, I could hear wort rushing to the bottom and steam came up from the wort hitting the hot element.

I am using the same pot but I added the holes myself. I put the temp probe in line with the element. I did see a spike in temp when the element was dry firing so the wort was below the element.

Yes, the bag would seal against the sides of the kettle and the only path for wort was through the bottom. It would then clog sometimes.

Scorched once with no ill effect on an IPA, second time causing a massive boil-over type mess (steam bubbled between side of the bag and the kettle, and a third time I had to dump a batch of 1.110 scotch heavy because the ash smell wouldn't age out after 4 months. The level of burning may get worse with higher sugar worts?

I decided my design was stupid, bought a custom stainless basket from ArborFab. Now the entirety of the basket allows liquid flow, and no issues since then.

Element was always functional, but required major cleaning. Regardless, I also upgraded to an incoloy ripple element, which has half the watt density of the "ULWD" straight elements.

This was a pretty low OG blonde ale (1.047). Hopefully it will turn out ok. It smelt bad as soon as the wort rushed to the bottom but it seemed to be ok after that. I tasted it after the boil and it seemed fine.

I'm either going with a Brew Bag or basket from ArborFab. I think everything would be fine if the bag was the size of the pot. My bag is a lot bigger so it clumped at the bottom. It is also not a stiff material so it can crush in on itself easily. I think the material Brew Bag uses is a little stiffer.

 

[augiedoggy]

Has anyone had a stuck mash and have the heating element on with no wort around it? Today the wort was draining from the bag very slowly. I think the bag that comes with the Brew Boss is too big and it caused a blockage. I didn't realize it until a minute or two later. I think my heating element was heating without much wort touching it. I'm not sure the wort is scorched but I hope I didn't ruin the element. Anyone have this happen?

There are more than a couple posts about scorching with this setup and a really long thread about it here somewhere discussing what your talking about with localized boiling and even air pockets at the element causing this. Didnt brewboss switch the type of elements from the straight lwd to the ripple ULWD to help with this as well?

 

[h22lude]

There are more than a couple posts about scorching with this setup and a really long thread about it here somewhere discussing what your talking about with localized boiling and even air pockets at the element causing this. Didnt brewboss switch the type of elements from the straight lwd to the ripple ULWD to help with this as well?

I'm using the bag my Brew Boss came with. I wonder if that is the problem other people had too. The bag is probably 50% longer than the pot so it bunches up at the bottom which I assume makes it harder for wort to pass through especially with a bunch of grain pushing down on it. I did also have the pump open full blast which I didn't realize right away.

I'm actually not using the Brew Boss element. I'm using https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/element5500_ripple_tc.htm

 

[mcgimpkins]

Didnt brewboss switch the type of elements from the straight lwd to the ripple ULWD to help with this as well?

Yeah they used to sell a 5500 Watt fold-back element with their systems but it looks like on their current systems that they are selling Darin is using the same ripple heater that h22lude is using and Bobby at Brew Hardware is selling http://www.brew-boss.com/ULWD-L6-30...e-Heater-Element-p/htr-5500-ripple-l6-30p.htm

Regardless, I also upgraded to an incoloy ripple element, which has half the watt density of the "ULWD" straight elements.

I was looking into do the same thing for the same reason.

 

[augiedoggy]

Yeah they used to sell a 5500 Watt fold-back element with their systems but it looks like on their current systems that they are selling Darin is using the same ripple heater that h22lude is using and Bobby at Brew Hardware is selling http://www.brew-boss.com/ULWD-L6-30...e-Heater-Element-p/htr-5500-ripple-l6-30p.htm



I was looking into do the same thing for the same reason.

Yes makes sense, brewboss claims he had them especially made for him so he must sell them to brewhardware to sell as well for him.

I use the same elements myself but I bought them direct from china for a lot less.

I think the key to fixing this issue is lower low levels on the pump.

 

[mcgimpkins]

I use the same elements myself but I bought them direct from china for a lot less.

I looked around some and could only find these are BrewHardware and Brew-Boss. Where were you able to find them at?

 

[h22lude]

Yes makes sense, brewboss claims he had them especially made for him so he must sell them to brewhardware to sell as well for him.

I use the same elements myself but I bought them direct from china for a lot less.

I think the key to fixing this issue is lower low levels on the pump.

Yeah I think the pump was a big part of the issue. I normally keep the valve half way but I just recently took it apart and forgot to put it back to half way. Learned my lesson. I need to soak the element in PBW overnight. I have some caked on black marks.

 

[Borneogoat]

I use a COFI basket in my system. On one of my first brews I accidentally left the heater on when the wort was drained. Thermistor was in air and the controller was telling the heat to go full blast, I didn't notice until the scorching smell was abundant. Wort was fine, but the heat element took multiple serious sessions of scrubbing . Still works fine though. Lesson learned: Program the heat setting when boil time is up to continue at a a very low temp, I use 0C/32F, which it will never actually reach during the remainder of the brew day!

 

[brew-boss]

I looked around some and could only find these are BrewHardware and Brew-Boss. Where were you able to find them at?

This is Darin at Brew-Boss. We designed the heating element with the triclamp flange and L6-30P plug integrated onto it. We spent thousands of dollars for tooling, molds, and design trials to get to the final design. We've also started the patent process, but that takes years.

We then had a Chinese company copy our design and a few of our competitors have started selling that design. For the record, Bobby at BrewHardware is carrying our product, not the copy.

Be very wary of the Chinese copy design. It is not designed well as the Brew-Boss element and has serious safety issues from my perspective.
I've taken possession of the copy and have tested it extensively. I ordered a few of them and 2 of them arrived DOA. I'd never sell a product with those issues and we will not warranty our controller if used with those elements.

As I said above, we've invested a lot of $$ into creating this design and we feel it is by far the best design of a heating element for brewing. It is so easy to copy and when this happens it really puts a damper on our desire to innovate. There are those that will always buy the cheapest they can find, and I can appreciate that, but please appreciate the time and expense that innovation requires and try and patronize the innovator rather than those that simply copy.

 

[andrewmaixner]

I think what happened with me is the bag clumped up at the bottom. As soon as I pulled the sides and made the bag tight, I could hear wort rushing to the bottom and steam came up from the wort hitting the hot element.

I am using the same pot but I added the holes myself. I put the temp probe in line with the element. I did see a spike in temp when the element was dry firing so the wort was below the element.



This was a pretty low OG blonde ale (1.047). Hopefully it will turn out ok. It smelt bad as soon as the wort rushed to the bottom but it seemed to be ok after that. I tasted it after the boil and it seemed fine.

I'm either going with a Brew Bag or basket from ArborFab. I think everything would be fine if the bag was the size of the pot. My bag is a lot bigger so it clumped at the bottom. It is also not a stiff material so it can crush in on itself easily. I think the material Brew Bag uses is a little stiffer.

I was using a brew bag brand. The issue is still there with the sides of the bag sealing against the kettle. You would have to find a bag that could never get as wide as the kettle for this issue to go away, or support the bag in some kind of basket like some systems do.

 

[augiedoggy]

This is Darin at Brew-Boss. We designed the heating element with the triclamp flange and L6-30P plug integrated onto it. We spent thousands of dollars for tooling, molds, and design trials to get to the final design. We've also started the patent process, but that takes years.

We then had a Chinese company copy our design and a few of our competitors have started selling that design. For the record, Bobby at BrewHardware is carrying our product, not the copy.

Be very wary of the Chinese copy design. It is not designed well as the Brew-Boss element and has serious safety issues from my perspective.
I've taken possession of the copy and have tested it extensively. I ordered a few of them and 2 of them arrived DOA. I'd never sell a product with those issues and we will not warranty our controller if used with those elements.

As I said above, we've invested a lot of $$ into creating this design and we feel it is by far the best design of a heating element for brewing. It is so easy to copy and when this happens it really puts a damper on our desire to innovate. There are those that will always buy the cheapest they can find, and I can appreciate that, but please appreciate the time and expense that innovation requires and try and patronize the innovator rather than those that simply copy.

With all due respect here,
I see your valid points but there and I only want to make this post to explain the flip side of your point of view and why I went with a cheaper alternative. I dont want this to turn into an arguement.

There are at least three different manufacturers making this particular configuration of the camco design ripple and selling them that im aware of, not one. The fact is the element design of these elements have been copied from camco and the regular 1" npt stainless clone elements were only made and sold by one vendor for over $75 until other copies came around to bring the price down a few years ago and now everyone including the likes of brewhardware, spike, ebrew and the electric brewery are selling chinese made stainless camco knockoffs because they are cheaper than the genuine stainless camco elements. I believe camco still owns the patents to the ripple ULWD elements (at least in the US) since every one I found for sale locally in a home improvement store is made by their supplier and sold as different brands under license unless somethings changed in the last 4 years? I may be mistaken but I believe Bobby stated once that camco wanted too much money to work with on this project so a chinese clone manufacturer was used for your elements. The fact that chinese companies had already started cloning and selling knockoffs of camcos design is what made your version possible right? Why is that ok but saving money here isnt?

Pretty much everything we use in home brewing was invented by someone and others started cloning or inovating off of it with thier own tweaked version and selling there version shortly after like the hop spiders and malt baskets arbor fab invented and everyone sells clones of ... Do you still buy all your stainless malt baskets from arbor or have you gone to a cheaper chinese supplier? If you do I applaud you for that since they seemed to "invent them" before everyone else started selling their own similar systems based on yours. But the flip side is multiple manufacturers and suppliers have made home brewing equipment more accessible and reasonably priced for the average home brewer compared to where we were before other suppliers started selling copies and variants of everything.

$16 vs $75 each is a huge price gap for something that costs about $4 to manufacture in china dont you think? For that reason alone I bought mine off alibaba. At the time I didnt even know it was your design. I just saw a type of element that I had already seen for sale by multiple home brewing supply competitors pop up on alibaba while searching for home brewing supplies. I didnt know you two were paired up selling the same design.

While were on that topic, I dont think your element is the same design as the one I have at all because when I look at the ones I own and dont see any special tooling required to make them at all, They are a pretty basic and simple configuration made from existing hardware. Only a bare ripple element put through a 1.5" tc plate with 2 holes drilled through it and the standard 30a nema connector soldered on with a plastic/ silicone housing ring to insulate it. Theres nothing custom about it except maybe the plastic ring with the silicone ring to seal it and make it water tight.. So maybe yours really is dramatically better but Ive heard of no problems from anyone who contacted me about the ones I have so I honestly suspect you tested one of the other clones out there.

 

[brew-boss]

With all due respect here,
I see your valid points but there and I only want to make this post to explain the flip side of your point of view and why I went with a cheaper alternative. I dont want this to turn into an arguement.

$16 vs $75 each is a huge price gap for something that costs about $4 to manufacture in china dont you think?

Thanks for the response. I didn't want to start an argument, just wanted to plead our case and try and protect my customers and keep them from potentially damaging their controllers or hurting themselves. As I said, I will not warranty any controller that fails when using the clone element. I damaged the first controller I tried the copy element on. Just want users to know that up front.

The differences between our element and the copy are internal and safety related. You can't judge a book by its cover! I don't want to disclose the differences, as they will just give the copiers too much information. Let them figure it out on their own.

That being said, I'd like to know the manufacturer you found that can make these for $4 each if you please. I'll definitely contact them and change my source if need be if they can make my design.

Yes, I still buy my COFI baskets from Arbor Fab. Even if I did go Chinese on those, it is our design (patent pending) so I'd be free to have anyone manufacture it. So it is not the same thing.

Brew Well my Friends!

 

[h22lude]

I was using a brew bag brand. The issue is still there with the sides of the bag sealing against the kettle. You would have to find a bag that could never get as wide as the kettle for this issue to go away, or support the bag in some kind of basket like some systems do.

Do you use the pump wide open? I think that was my biggest problem. Having it wide open caused the bag and grains to create a blockage. While I still think the bag is too big, having the pump valve open half way never caused an issue.

 

[brew-boss]

Do you use the pump wide open? I think that was my biggest problem. Having it wide open caused the bag and grains to create a blockage. While I still think the bag is too big, having the pump valve open half way never caused an issue.

this is discussed on page 48 of the operations manual. You must restrict the flow otherwise you will starve the pump, but worse, starve the heating element!

http://www.brew-boss.com/v/vspfiles/files/pdf/Brew-BossOperationManualV3.00.pdf

here is the cautionary note:

CAUTION: During mashing, it is important to ensure that the flow of water into the pump
equals the flow out of the pump. This is true for both BIAB and COFI mash methods. The
wort/water level should always be above the temperature probe level. Use the flow regulation
valve on the pump output to reduce flow appropriately. If grains are crushed too finely or
viscous ingredients are used such as rice, oats, or corn, it is possible that the screening on the
filter can become plugged, causing a stuck mash (water can get into the filter but not out). In
this case, it is possible, especially with smaller batches, for the COFI filter to fill with
water/wort such that the supply of water in the kettle outside the COFI filter depletes, both
starving the pump and heater element. This could cause dry firing of the heater element,
causing scorching or worse yet, permanent damage to the element.

 

[h22lude]

this is discussed on page 48 of the operations manual. You must restrict the flow otherwise you will starve the pump, but worse, starve the heating element!

http://www.brew-boss.com/v/vspfiles/files/pdf/Brew-BossOperationManualV3.00.pdf

here is the cautionary note:

CAUTION: During mashing, it is important to ensure that the flow of water into the pump
equals the flow out of the pump. This is true for both BIAB and COFI mash methods. The
wort/water level should always be above the temperature probe level. Use the flow regulation
valve on the pump output to reduce flow appropriately. If grains are crushed too finely or
viscous ingredients are used such as rice, oats, or corn, it is possible that the screening on the
filter can become plugged, causing a stuck mash (water can get into the filter but not out). In
this case, it is possible, especially with smaller batches, for the COFI filter to fill with
water/wort such that the supply of water in the kettle outside the COFI filter depletes, both
starving the pump and heater element. This could cause dry firing of the heater element,
causing scorching or worse yet, permanent damage to the element.

Yup that is what happened to me. I always have the outlet valve half way open but this time I forgot to do that after cleaning. I have been taking it all apart after each batch and just forgot I had it wide open. The element is definitely scorched but I think PBW will clean it right up. I was able to boil the wort so I don't think it is ruined.

 

[augiedoggy]

As I said, I will not warranty any controller that fails when using the clone element. I damaged the first controller I tried the copy element on. Just want users to know that up front.

Not for nothing but if a failing heating element somehow damaged the control panel then I would honestly be looking at how and why...

When they short out or short to ground they should effectively be blowing the fuse or breaker if not the GFCI first that they are on and thats it.. The statement above kinda sounds like its being made to scare people off from trying any elements but the ones you supply by implying it will damage the controller and Ive never really heard of that happening here myself with any properly wired control panel. If its a real concern I really genuinely would like to know how and why?

I have had camco elements fail in the past and they never damaged the relays or controllers controlling those relays via the dc control signal. They just pop the gfci when turned on.
I did misquote the price above and apologize for that.. the basic 1" npt based elements are $4-7 each when purchased in large bulk orders.. I was quoted $14 each for the ones I have and posted a pic of above.. It came to $18.50 each with shipping if I ordered 100 of them. I believe they are the company that supplies ebrew with some of their elements judging by the earlier pics I got off each site when comparing well over a year ago but he may have changed suppliers now since his pics have changed.

Again these prices are not for your elements just the similar ones that are configured with the tc base and 30p plug attached. I have taken some of these types elements apart and besides being better supported or more waterproof in some way theres nothing electrically that would make yours Superior to any other. One way yours could be structurally superior is if the TC base is actually welded to the element instead of just passing through it and sealed with some soft of epoxy or sealant which mine appear to use so theres one thing that could explain some of your higher costs along with customs and any tariff fees you might have. im certainly not saying your buying yours for these prices and reselling them for $75 each. Just as I wouldnt imply the bayou style kettles you use are the same quality as blichmanns and they are just just charging more for the same thing... I am saying if they both work the same way and get the job done the same than the "better" built one may not be necessary for everyone.. Now if Blichmann started denying warranty claims on any boilcoil that wasnt being used with their controllers or vice verca I might start scratching my head even though thats their prerogative I would question their motives without a valid concern.

Mr malty was comparing samples of these elements from all different vendors including yours I believe to offer for sale and the mounting of the element into the base as well as the plug itself not being a waterproof design were his concerns.. I know some use a rubber oring around the prongs to help with what some see as a large weakness on these.

PS. grainfather brau and the others seem to have stolen your patent pending cofi filter design, No?

 

[andrewmaixner]

Do you use the pump wide open? I think that was my biggest problem. Having it wide open caused the bag and grains to create a blockage. While I still think the bag is too big, having the pump valve open half way never caused an issue.

No, the first couple times I thought I had monitored it for long enough (20 minutes+) to ensure that the flow rate was acceptable. It's quite possible that smaller particles, proteins, etc, migrate towards the bottom and gum up the fine mesh at the bottom, resulting in a vacuum-compacted grain bed when the sides seal against the kettle.

I wanted as much hands-off as reasonable, while getting max grain capacity, so the basket was a well-worth-it expenditure.
Note that my system is all custom built, only the controller/element/probe are official BrewBoss equipment.

 

[HLSheppard]

Hi all - I downloaded the most recent Brew Boss app update before this weekend's brew session. I am using the cheap Android tablet that ships with the system and have never had any issues.

The new software is meant to work with the updated BB controller but I can no longer connect to my Hops Boss wirelessly.

I have e-mail Darin on this and his suggestion was to check the IP address in the settings (it was fine). May be just a bug in the new software...

Just curious if anyone else had experienced anything like this?

First-world problem, I know. It just stinks to have a dialed in recipe go a bit off the rails because the "automated" system was not so. Normally, I sit with my BB the entire time I'm brewing. Yesterday, I was multi-tasking and it caught me off guard... Either way - no wi-fi Hops Boss until this gets sorted...

 

[h22lude]

Hi all - I downloaded the most recent Brew Boss app update before this weekend's brew session. I am using the cheap Android tablet that ships with the system and have never had any issues.

The new software is meant to work with the updated BB controller but I can no longer connect to my Hops Boss wirelessly.

I have e-mail Darin on this and his suggestion was to check the IP address in the settings (it was fine). May be just a bug in the new software...

Just curious if anyone else had experienced anything like this?

First-world problem, I know. It just stinks to have a dialed in recipe go a bit off the rails because the "automated" system was not so. Normally, I sit with my BB the entire time I'm brewing. Yesterday, I was multi-tasking and it caught me off guard... Either way - no wi-fi Hops Boss until this gets sorted...

I have an older controller with the new app. My last brew the automation didn't work as it normally did. I had to manually adjust a few things. I wonder if the app has a few bugs right now.

 

[HLSheppard]

Agreed. Older controller as well. The volume of water (normally 8.x gallons) said -0.

 

[brew-boss]

We have just released V2.04 of the Brew-Boss app to the Google Play Store. Please make certain to update to this version before your next brew session.

 

[HLSheppard]

We have just released V2.04 of the Brew-Boss app to the Google Play Store. Please make certain to update to this version before your next brew session.

I'll test this one out tonight and report back! Thanks for being so eager to support your customers, Darin!!

 

[u81doughboy]

Are there release notes for this latest version? What are the changes/improvements?

 

[HLSheppard]

Latest version worked for me! My Hops Boss is back in commission.

 

[brew-boss]

Are there release notes for this latest version? What are the changes/improvements?

Release notes are always listed on the Google play store. This update fixes the wireless hops boss connection issue with newer hops boss as well as some other internal optimizations

 

[u81doughboy]

Thank you. I haven't updated my brew-boss since I purchased it, as I've never had a problem with its performance.

 

[HLSheppard]

Thank you. I haven't updated my brew-boss since I purchased it, as I've never had a problem with its performance.

Hi Doughboy - just to clarify: This is the app that is on your tablet. I haven't updated my controller firmware, either (there's really no need because it always works!).

Just wanted to make sure that was clear.