Braid -vs- False Bottom?

[Cpt_Kirks]

I am building a new MLT using an 11 gallon SS pot.

Currently, I use a loop of 3/4 SS braid in my current MLT. For the new one, I'm thinking of using a false bottom.

Does a false bottom increase efficiency over a braid? I batch sparge.

 

[maida7]

For batch sparge I highly doubt it would make a difference. For fly sparge the false bottom is vastly superior to a braid.

 

[ktraver97ss]

We use both actually and usually fly sparge and it works great. Have gotten 80% efficiency on a few brews.

 

[Monster Mash]

For batch sparge I highly doubt it would make a difference. For fly sparge the false bottom is vastly superior to a braid.

Everybody I brew with has switched from a FB to a braid for fly sparging and have found it to be much better. My efficiency is 80% with a braid and I have never had a stuck sparge in over 9 years of brewing with it.

 

[bulldogbrewhaus]

Have had really good results with the kettle screen/bazooka tube in my MLT.

 

[J8D]

While NOT disagreeing with the effectiveness of the braid, I did have a version get smashed flat which of course was a 154 degree hot mess. I was using the stainless steel mesh from a toilet water line that was not internally supported. Since then I have gone to the copper manifold and had no issues and great efficiency.

 

[Monster Mash]

The quality of the braid does make a difference, not in efficiency but in durability. I've never had one crush but I have seen it happen.

 

[Cpt_Kirks]

While NOT disagreeing with the effectiveness of the braid, I did have a version get smashed flat which of course was a 154 degree hot mess. I was using the stainless steel mesh from a toilet water line that was not internally supported. Since then I have gone to the copper manifold and had no issues and great efficiency.

How did it get crushed? Do you add grain to water, or water to grain?

 

[J8D]

How did it get crushed? Do you add grain to water, or water to grain?

I add grain to the water. It was crushed under the weight of the grain. Further it was in a rectangular mash tun, not a round ten gallon one which means there wasn't as much weight as you would expect in a round one.

 

[Darwin18]

Instead of a toilet braid try this:

http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/review/product/list/id/654/category/36/?p=2

I've done probably 40 batches on my 10G cooler without a single problem. I would not use this on a brew kettle, however.

 

[jsv1204]

I use a braid and have mashed up to 20 lbs of malt without experiencing lauter problems. What I use is a very large braid (3/4"+?) from a hot water heater hose ($10 or so from Lowe's). Getting the hose out of the braid was a bit of a trick but it has worked flawlessly for two years.

Cheers

 

[Cpt_Kirks]

I use a braid and have mashed up to 20 lbs of malt without experiencing lauter problems. What I use is a very large braid (3/4"+?) from a hot water heater hose ($10 or so from Lowe's). Getting the hose out of the braid was a bit of a trick but it has worked flawlessly for two years.

Cheers

That is EXACTLY (even the same store) what I use. Sucker will cut you when you take the hose apart if you are not careful.

 

[maida7]

That is EXACTLY (even the same store) what I use. Sucker will cut you when you take the hose apart if you are not careful.

I use the same style braid and have mashed 50lbs of grain on it and it has never crushed the braid.

 

[Denny]

For batch sparge I highly doubt it would make a difference. For fly sparge the false bottom is vastly superior to a braid.

The braid can work well for fly sparging if configured correctly. It's the configuration, not the material, that matters.

 

[jbaysurfer]

The braid can work well for fly sparging if configured correctly. It's the configuration, not the material, that matters.

A false bottom IS a different configuration from a braid.

I agree with the poster that says for batch sparging (so long as you avoid the crushing issue that's been brought up) there's no difference. For fly sparging, according to Palmer:

Continuous sparging efficiency depends on uniform flow

He goes on to point out in Appendix F that a large multi pipe manifold or FB is better then a single braid for uniform flow.

I personally batch sparge with a false bottom, I convince myself the uniformity of the FB flow helps ensure I can extract all the sugars when I'm vorlaufing, then lautering. I tend to get good/reliable efficiency and don't have any crushing worries....though having not used a braid, I don't know how rational that fear is/is not

 

[maida7]

A false bottom IS a different configuration from a braid.

I agree with the poster that says for batch sparging (so long as you avoid the crushing issue that's been brought up) there's no difference. For fly sparging, according to Palmer:



He goes on to point out in Appendix F that a large multi pipe manifold or FB is better then a single braid for uniform flow.

I personally batch sparge with a false bottom, I convince myself the uniformity of the FB flow helps ensure I can extract all the sugars when I'm vorlaufing, then lautering. I tend to get good/reliable efficiency and don't have any crushing worries....though having not used a braid, I don't know how rational that fear is/is not

I also batch sparge but I do it "Denny" style in a cooler with a braid. But I've read Palmer and believe that with fly sparge the false bottom is the way to go.

 

[Denny]

A false bottom IS a different configuration from a braid.

I agree with the poster that says for batch sparging (so long as you avoid the crushing issue that's been brought up) there's no difference. For fly sparging, according to Palmer:



He goes on to point out in Appendix F that a large multi pipe manifold or FB is better then a single braid for uniform flow.

I personally batch sparge with a false bottom, I convince myself the uniformity of the FB flow helps ensure I can extract all the sugars when I'm vorlaufing, then lautering. I tend to get good/reliable efficiency and don't have any crushing worries....though having not used a braid, I don't know how rational that fear is/is not

I said the same thing as Palmer is saying. If you configure the braid correctly, it is perfectly effective for fly sparging.

Your theory about the FB contradicts the theory of batch sparging. Since you have all the sugar in solution at once, you are draining, not rinsing as you would in fly sparging. I get an average of 83-85% efficiency using a braid. I do nothing to reinforce it and I've used it with up to 75 lb. of grain without a problem.

 

[jbaysurfer]

I said the same thing as Palmer is saying. If you configure the braid correctly, it is perfectly effective for fly sparging.

Your theory about the FB contradicts the theory of batch sparging. Since you have all the sugar in solution at once, you are draining, not rinsing as you would in fly sparging. I get an average of 83-85% efficiency using a braid. I do nothing to reinforce it and I've used it with up to 75 lb. of grain without a problem.

LOL..sorry for the misunderstanding. I didn't put too much thought into that theory, truth is, a false bottom is what I use, and it works for me!

Glad to hear you get such great efficiency with a braid, I guess you use it in a ring configuration?

 

[Denny]

LOL..sorry for the misunderstanding. I didn't put too much thought into that theory, truth is, a false bottom is what I use, and it works for me!

Glad to hear you get such great efficiency with a braid, I guess you use it in a ring configuration?

Nope, straight piece...I batch sparge.

 

[helibrewer]

I use a circle configuration SS braid that is pulled over slotted copper tubing (primarily for strength/support).

 

[jbaysurfer]

I use a circle configuration SS braid that is pulled over slotted copper tubing (primarily for strength/support).

This is probably what I'd do if I didn't have a false bottom...seems bomber.

 

[Denny]

This is probably what I'd do if I didn't have a false bottom...seems bomber.

Seems like belt and suspenders to me.

 

[bctdi]

I use a 3/4" ss braid coiled up to cover the whole bottom of my cooler tun with a ss spring inserted inside the braid for support. The spring works great and the sparge goes off without a hitch.

 

[jbaysurfer]

Seems like belt and suspenders to me.

What can I say, I have an affinity for overengineering.

 

[ronstar55]

I use a 3/4" ss braid coiled up to cover the whole bottom of my cooler tun with a ss spring inserted inside the braid for support. The spring works great and the sparge goes off without a hitch.

I'm getting ready to replace my braid for the 2nd time due to crushing problems. Where did you get the ss spring?

 

[bctdi]

I'm getting ready to replace my braid for the 2nd time due to crushing problems. Where did you get the ss spring?

I think mcmaster carr had the spring , but since I already had some ss .032 safety wire laying around, I wrapped it around a wooden dowel till I had enough to fill up all the braid. I guess it's not technically a spring , but I saved $ by not buying new material. Check McMaster carr, I do believe the had it by the foot.

 

[Monster Mash]

I have a 1 1/4" braid and I get 80%+ efficiency.

 

[jumbo_tron]

I think mcmaster carr had the spring , but since I already had some ss .032 safety wire laying around, I wrapped it around a wooden dowel till I had enough to fill up all the braid. I guess it's not technically a spring , but I saved $ by not buying new material. Check McMaster carr, I do believe the had it by the foot.

Here is the McMaster part number for the spring I use in my braid. 9663K26. Works very well. I like to really dig in and stir the mash well, you'll never crush that spring with a paddle.

 

[ronstar55]

Thanks for the spring info! I can't wait to get one. Then I won't have to hold back as much when I'm stirring close to the bottom.

 

[jeepinjeepin]

I use a circle configuration SS braid that is pulled over slotted copper tubing (primarily for strength/support).

Me too.

Seems like belt and suspenders to me.

I used an unsupported braid until I mangled it up with my mash paddle.

 

[Denny]

Ya know, everybody has their own thoughts on things and I applaud some of you guys on your creativity. But for the life of me, if I had to go through some of the gyrations some of you do, I think I'd give it up. Why is it that I can use the same braid for 15 years and 400+ batches? Why don't I need to reinforce the braid? Spend a bit of time getting the right braid and the right configuration.

 

[bctdi]

Ya know, everybody has their own thoughts on things and I applaud some of you guys on your creativity. But for the life of me, if I had to go through some of the gyrations some of you do, I think I'd give it up. Why is it that I can use the same braid for 15 years and 400+ batches? Why don't I need to reinforce the braid? Spend a bit of time getting the right braid and the right configuration.

I'll give you my reason why.... I was having some trouble with some stuck sparges, and at the same time , i never liked the fact that my cooler mt drain valve was about 2 inches above the floor of my mash tun. I felt like I was leaving some good wort behind, so I decided to get one of those "ice cube" coolers because those coolers have a nice little recess just below the floor level of the cooler where my drain valve would go. Since I was building a new mash tun anyway , I wanted to make sure I wasn't going to have to mess with it again, so I put a support inside my new larger and longer ss braid and made the braid so it would cover most of the area of the mt floor.
I think what drove me to re-engineer my system was the fact that I was having problems . I you're not having problems , no need to mess with it. After several batches with my new system, I don't have any more issues.