Bottling question - long term storage

[30Bones]

Not aging, I keg and bottle depending on my mood and if the keezer is at capacity. Once the bottles are conditioned and to my desired carb level I have been storing them on shelves in my basement (mid 50's to 60's) and grab a 6 pack here and there to enjoy. If they continue to sit, they tend to be overcarbed...by quite a bit.

My only solution thus far is to refrigerate them once at my desired carb level. Sometimes I don't have the space for 1-3 cases of bottles. Any other solutions?

Always used this site and it's worked well, other than longer storage periods. http://www.homebrewdad.com/priming_sugar_calculator.php

 

[botigol]

Bottling isn't the issue; the carbonation will not continue to increase without available sugar in conjunction with active yeast or an infection. For your current stock, I think that refrigeration is your only option short of decanting.

 

[30Bones]

So you are more or less saying that calculator I am using is incorrect or my inputs are incorrect. Fair enough, I will be a bit more detailed on my temp I enter, that's the only variable. I enter the max temp during fermentation, not the cold crashed temp. The volume I log once in the bottling bucket is spot on, then mix up the sugar water, cool and add to the bucket.

 

[sowoah]

when you cold crash the beer reabsorbs some of the CO2 in the fermentor. That could be your issue.

 

[30Bones]

when you cold crash the beer reabsorbs some of the CO2 in the fermentor. That could be your issue.

Makes sense. Just did a sample from my last saison I bottled. 6.5 gallons @ 75* was 221 grams of sugar, @ 35* 138 grams.

Where is the happy medium?

If you cold crash at bottling time, that's fine - but again, enter the highest temperature that the beer has been sitting at once fermentation was complete. If you enter the cold temp, you may undercarb your beer.

 

[aaronmq]

I have made hard cider in the past and wanted it lightly carbonated and sweet. To halt fermentation where I wanted it, I ran the bottles through the dish washer.

 

[slym2none]

Makes sense. Just did a sample from my last saison I bottled. 6.5 gallons @ 75* was 221 grams of sugar, @ 35* 138 grams.

Where is the happy medium?

This might have to be an ongoing experiment. Try using the recommended ferment temperature?

 

[Duguevara]

Have you thought of pasteurisation? I've never tried yet, but I've watched how to do it and looks like it's a simple and efficient method to stop the carbonation at the level you want to maintain it.

 

[30Bones]

I have made hard cider in the past and wanted it lightly carbonated and sweet. To halt fermentation where I wanted it, I ran the bottles through the dish washer.

I run all my bottles through the dishwasher. How will that halt fermentation?

This might have to be an ongoing experiment. Try using the recommended ferment temperature?

That's where my question lies then. Seems I will overshoot it using that link I posted. Maybe I need to do a few smaller batches and play with the sugar amounts based on temp setting entered. Say 15-20 degree incriments.

Have you thought of pasteurisation? I've never tried yet, but I've watched how to do it and looks like it's a simple and efficient method to stop the carbonation at the level you want to maintain it.

Nope, no desire either.

 

[aaronmq]

I run all my bottles through the dishwasher. How will that halt fermentation?

I meant running the full and capped bottles through the dish washer to halt fermentation.

 

[peterj]

Sounds like you might be cold crashing and/or bottling too early. Are you reaching a stable FG? How long are you letting it ferment before cold crashing?

Makes sense. Just did a sample from my last saison I bottled. 6.5 gallons @ 75* was 221 grams of sugar, @ 35* 138 grams.

Where is the happy medium?

With 221 grams of sugar you're looking at around 2.9-3.1 volumes of CO2 depending on if that's corn or table sugar. 3 volumes is kind of a lot for a bottle and may seem overcarbonated (bubbling out of the bottle after opening, hard to pour, too much head, etc.).

Unless you're doing a very long cold crash or cold crashing before the yeast are completely finished (which will cause more problems than just priming calculator issues) I would just use the highest temperature it reached after the active part of fermentation when the yeast stopped producing most of the CO2.

 

[Takuie]

Not aging, I keg and bottle depending on my mood and if the keezer is at capacity. Once the bottles are conditioned and to my desired carb level I have been storing them on shelves in my basement (mid 50's to 60's) and grab a 6 pack here and there to enjoy. If they continue to sit, they tend to be overcarbed...by quite a bit.

My only solution thus far is to refrigerate them once at my desired carb level. Sometimes I don't have the space for 1-3 cases of bottles. Any other solutions?

Always used this site and it's worked well, other than longer storage periods. http://www.homebrewdad.com/priming_sugar_calculator.php

When I was bottling, I had many ober carb issues until I started inputting the temp of what my beer will be stored at while carbing and not the actual temperature of the beer. Once I started doing it that way, bottle carbing was spot on.

 

[peterj]

When I was bottling, I had many ober carb issues until I started inputting the temp of what my beer will be stored at while carbing and not the actual temperature of the beer. Once I started doing it that way, bottle carbing was spot on.

That's not the temperature the calculators are looking for. They use that temperature to estimate dissolved CO2 in the beer prior to bottling. It must have been something else in your process that fixed your carbing issues. Though I would suspect bottle storage temps and fermentation temps would be pretty similar.

 

[azazel1024]

I've seen two things with mine. A couple of mild infections in a couple of batches. I've also had it where the yeast goes dormant because my carboy temp is about 62F on the slab. Some strains go nighty night once they've chewed through the simple sugars and some of the medium complex stuff and then wake up when bottled and sitting on my shelves in the basement. Shelf temp is 66F in the winter, but slab is 62F. Enough of a difference combined with the simple sugar wake up that they munch some extra and I end up with 3-4 volumes instead of the 2.2-2.5 volumes I was going for.

My solution was after 5 days for ales, warming things up to 70F in my fermentation chamber. Between that and replacing some bottling bits, not more overcarbing.

I personally use 65F as the input temp for bottling. Also keep in mind that table sugar produces 10% more CO2 than corn sugar. I use table sugar, if you do as well...

Doesn't take much to be "over carbed". Really only some wheats and fruit beers should be up at 3-4 volumes and you should absolutely be using something like a 16-20oz glass when pouring one of those bad boys for all the head space you'll need.

Also make sure you are acurately reflecting the volume of beer at bottling time. I had also often been going "Oh, I brewed 4 gallons of beer. Lets just throw that in the calc and, there we go". In reality, I might have been a quart low going in to the carboy (because I wasn't using graduated measurements on my carboys, which I am now). Then I might have 1-3 pints of losses to trub and yeast cake. So in reality I was putting together priming sugar for 4 gallons for something like 2.5 volumes, but I was actually only bottling 3.4 gallons.

 

[madscientist451]

Not aging, I keg and bottle depending on my mood and if the keezer is at capacity. Once the bottles are conditioned and to my desired carb level I have been storing them on shelves in my basement (mid 50's to 60's) and grab a 6 pack here and there to enjoy. If they continue to sit, they tend to be overcarbed...by quite a bit.

I'm agreeing with whoever said you are probably getting over carbed because your primary yeast isn't done yet.
How long do you allow for your fermentaion? Do you take gravity readings before you proceed to the next step?
One option is let the fermentor sit at regular room temperature for a while (like a week when it appears done) and see if the gravity drops any.
If time makes a difference, I guess you could shorten that to 2-3 days.
If you are getting consistent over carbing or other problems, its good to review your process. I'm doubting your problem is related to the priming calculator or temperature inputs, but that still is a possibility.

 

[30Bones]

I'm agreeing with whoever said you are probably getting over carbed because your primary yeast isn't done yet.
How long do you allow for your fermentaion? Do you take gravity readings before you proceed to the next step?
One option is let the fermentor sit at regular room temperature for a while (like a week when it appears done) and see if the gravity drops any.
If time makes a difference, I guess you could shorten that to 2-3 days.
If you are getting consistent over carbing or other problems, its good to review your process. I'm doubting your problem is related to the priming calculator or temperature inputs, but that still is a possibility.

I do take a gravity reading, but once it's where I want it, I cold crash and keg (and now at times bottle). You make a valid point there. I have been thinking about extending my fermentation as mine is rather short since 85% of the time I keg and force carb it's never been much of a thought or concern.

 

[azazel1024]

You'll probably get better tasting beer if you actually let it finish...

Unless you are brewing something really light (like under 1.040), basic active fermentation is going to take at least 4-5 days and batting clean-up can be another week. Sure, you can crash it and force carb it before it is really done, but you aren't probably getting a finished beer. Doesn't mean it can't taste good to you or someone else, but I can't think of a single beer I've made (sure, I'll grant I bottle) that didn't improve over the course of the first month or so after bottling. Even a number of my light beers have improved with a few weeks in the bottle.

That is at 65-70F. Compared to maybe 40F in a keggerator. First off, the yeast is still doing it's thing at 65-70F, where as at 40F, it is not anymore. On top of that, chemical reactions are still going on. At 65-70F, they are happening twice as fast (or more) than at 40F (chemical reactions double their reaction rate for every 10C increase in temperature).

You are drinking a lot of "green" beer if you are kegging after, say, a week. 2 weeks is probably the minimum you should be looking at, bottling or kegging. 4-6 days at your set fermentation temp and then 2-3 days at a slightly warmer temp (whether that is room temp, or you need to use a heater to warm it if fermenting in a cool place) and then probably a week at room temperature (so long as that is above about 65F).

Higher gravity beers (>1.060) should really be 3-4 weeks. Very high gravity beers, IMHO should never be kegged, unless you are going to let them keg age at room/cellar temps for months (again, IMHO, but you don't start getting a GOOD high gravity beer until it has been aged for at least 3-6 months, better yet, 6-18 months depending on gravity).

 

[30Bones]

Generally it's 10-14 days before cold crashing an ale.

 

[azazel1024]

Generally it's 10-14 days before cold crashing an ale.

So long as it isn't high gravity, that sounds about right. Are you temp controlling the fermentation? I've found that with most of my ales that if I either let the temp float up, or if the winter time and cold in my basement, I turn on the heater in my fermentation chamber and raise the temp to 70-72F for a couple of days at the tail end of active fermentation, (roughly day 5), FG seems to drop an extra point or two.

I am getting proper carbing now.

 

[30Bones]

So long as it isn't high gravity, that sounds about right. Are you temp controlling the fermentation? I've found that with most of my ales that if I either let the temp float up, or if the winter time and cold in my basement, I turn on the heater in my fermentation chamber and raise the temp to 70-72F for a couple of days at the tail end of active fermentation, (roughly day 5), FG seems to drop an extra point or two.

I am getting proper carbing now.

Yes, temp control and ramping via my black box