Bottle gushers...

[stuknkrvl]

So I'm currently in the process of dumping every batch I've bottled since January because, it would seem, I have an infection somewhere in my equipment.

I've adopted a scorched earth policy, blasting everything I own with all the PBW I can afford, and I've hit the LHBS for resupplies on assorted gadgets like bottling wands and auto-siphons.

Here's my question -

Is it normal to have a pretty long lag in between the time you bottle and the time the infection takes hold and does its dirty work?

I'm asking because several of these brews (for instance the porter I bottled back in March) initially turned out fantastic! I drank the hell out of these beers, and had a lot of positive feedback on them from my beer guinea pigs. It wasn't until a month or so ago that they started boiling over when I opened them up.

My latest travesty, however, was an attempted amber ale that started giving me grief about two or three weeks after I bottled them up.

Could it be that the bugger has just been ramping up and getting stronger over time so that this last batch took no time at all to go south?

Regardless, lots of changes taking place in my post-brew/pre-bottling cleaning and sanitation processes.

Thanks!

 

[C-Rider]

Earlier this year I brewed and bottled a stout. No infections or gushers so I sent two off to a contest....both gushed....opened the rest at home and all gushed. So Yea I guess it could take a few weeks..months to show up.

 

[Sadu]

Sorry to hear dude, gushers suck.

I have had several gushers, and one thing I noticed is that some taste foul and some don't. My second batch ever was good drinking up until about 8 weeks then several bottles were gushers and tasted infected. I initially thought it was bad bottle sanitation on just a few bottles but now I think the whole batch was infected and just took a while to manifest.

In other batches I have had gushers after 3 weeks but they tasted fine. I'm fairly sure that was poorly mixed priming sugar, plus being hefeweizens they are highly carbed anyway. Does your amber ale taste infected or is it tasting OK after it has gushed?

I am pretty careful about tasting my beers periodically. As soon as I feel a batch is past it's prime or looking dodgy I try to finish it off before things get worse.

Good luck.

 

[stuknkrvl]

@Sadu - No, they've all tasted sour so they're all going down the drain.

It's killing me to do it. The porter I mentioned was my first crack out the box with that recipe, and it was absolutely on point. I'd go so far as to say it's the best batch I've ever brewed, but it's all no good now.

My best guess is the problem was with either my bottling bucket or my bottling wand. I inherited a ton of equipment from a buddy of mine after he upgraded a bunch of his stuff. It all worked like a champ for the first ten or so batches, but I don't think I was paying enough attention to my cleaning and sanitation on my bottling equipment. When I took apart the spigot on my old bottling bucket, there was a pretty gnarly sticky brown film on the o-rings and inside the spigot itself. My bottling wand wasn't much better, and I'm sad to admit I didn't know until very recently that you could take those apart and clean them.

Price of being a nube, I suppose.

Sorry about all your bad luck, but I'm glad to know I'm not the only one.

Thanks!

 

[whoaru99]

You mentioned PBW, but you are sanitizing too with the likes of Star-San, in tbe proper manner?

 

[CU_tony]

I always take the spigot off my bottling bucket for cleaning and storage between batches, also... I feel stupid for asking this, how do you take apart the bottling wand? Mine seems like the plastic tip is glued on..

 

[whoaru99]

Mine was/is glued too. I just cleaned it right away so any residue didn't have much chance to dry up and become harder to remove.

Same with the bottling bucket. Removed the spigot and disassembed it every time, for cleaning, right after bottling was finished.

Then, of course, reassembly after the contact time and while still wet with sanitizer, just prior to bottling.

 

[Calypso]

I always take the spigot off my bottling bucket for cleaning and storage between batches, also... I feel stupid for asking this, how do you take apart the bottling wand? Mine seems like the plastic tip is glued on..

Does your wand look like this?

The white tip *should* come off and contain a black valve and a spring.

 

[CU_tony]

I do think I have a wand like that, but I didn't like the spring. It takes more pressure to fill and I felt it was at a much slower rate.

 

[Upthewazzu]

So I'm currently in the process of dumping every batch I've bottled since January because, it would seem, I have an infection somewhere in my equipment.

I've adopted a scorched earth policy, blasting everything I own with all the PBW I can afford, and I've hit the LHBS for resupplies on assorted gadgets like bottling wands and auto-siphons.

Here's my question -

Is it normal to have a pretty long lag in between the time you bottle and the time the infection takes hold and does its dirty work?

I'm asking because several of these brews (for instance the porter I bottled back in March) initially turned out fantastic! I drank the hell out of these beers, and had a lot of positive feedback on them from my beer guinea pigs. It wasn't until a month or so ago that they started boiling over when I opened them up.

My latest travesty, however, was an attempted amber ale that started giving me grief about two or three weeks after I bottled them up.

Could it be that the bugger has just been ramping up and getting stronger over time so that this last batch took no time at all to go south?

Regardless, lots of changes taking place in my post-brew/pre-bottling cleaning and sanitation processes.

Thanks!

You mention PBW, which is not a sanitizer. Are you also using a sanitizer (Star San, Iodophor, etc)?

 

[ncbrewer]

If your fermenter is glass, you can disinfect it with bleach solution. For buckets, some have success with bleach, and some don't. When I had an infection, bleach didn't help the fermenter bucket - had to replace it. I used 1 Tbsp bleach per gallon of water with 15 minutes soaking time for the bucket. I soaked glass bottles for 30 minutes. I really hated having an infection and definitely feel for you.

 

[stuknkrvl]

Yes, I use StarSan like crazy - bottles, hoses, bottling bucket, bottling wand, bottle tree, bottle caps... everything.

I just hadn't paid enough attention to the mechanical cleaning of some of my equipment, thus the PBW fest.

For those asking about the bottle wands - mine came apart fairly easily, just took a little wiggling to get the tip to finally slide off.

 

[55x11]

So I'm currently in the process of dumping every batch I've bottled since January because, it would seem, I have an infection somewhere in my equipment.

I've adopted a scorched earth policy, blasting everything I own with all the PBW I can afford, and I've hit the LHBS for resupplies on assorted gadgets like bottling wands and auto-siphons.

Here's my question -

Is it normal to have a pretty long lag in between the time you bottle and the time the infection takes hold and does its dirty work?

I'm asking because several of these brews (for instance the porter I bottled back in March) initially turned out fantastic! I drank the hell out of these beers, and had a lot of positive feedback on them from my beer guinea pigs. It wasn't until a month or so ago that they started boiling over when I opened them up.

My latest travesty, however, was an attempted amber ale that started giving me grief about two or three weeks after I bottled them up.

Could it be that the bugger has just been ramping up and getting stronger over time so that this last batch took no time at all to go south?

Regardless, lots of changes taking place in my post-brew/pre-bottling cleaning and sanitation processes.

Thanks!

it may take a long time for the subtle infections to go through any available sugars. Like many months. High ABV and lots of hops may inhibit the wild bugs to some extent, but regular beers will sour more quickly, especially if you don't store them cold. What are the beers and how long of a storage did you have for the spoiled beers, out of curiosity?

I have un-founded suspicious that a fairly sizable fraction of say 4-6% beers bottled in home brewing environments would go sour eventually after long aging (say after 12 months) due to even miniscule presence of wild yeast/bacteria. It's just that most beers get drunk quickly, except for imperial stouts, sours and such that are meant to be aged.

Still, obviously, better be safe than sorry and sanitize everything the best you can.

 

[passedpawn]

I had those types of experiences. Some old beers were fine, others the whole batch gushed after a few months.

I know jumping to kegs is a big jump, and it's just not going to happen for many people for myriad reasons. But I'll throw it out anyway, that you won't have these problems any more if you keg.

 

[stuknkrvl]

@55x11 - In order, they are...

Barleywine - OG 1.113, FG 1.002, Pitched 1/23/16, Bottled 5/5/16
Small Beer (parti-gyle batch off the above mentioned barleywine) - OG 1.048, FG 1.02, Pitched 1/23/16, Bottled 3/9/16
Porter - OG 1.052, FG 1.014, Pitched 2/16/16, Bottled 3/10/16
DIS - OG 1.038, FG 1.016, Pitched 3/17/16, Bottled 4/18/16
Amber - OG 1.041, FG 1.008, Pitched 7/25/16, Bottled 8/9/16

Except for the amber and the barleywine, every one of those beers was very drinkable up through May. The barleywine is getting tossed because even though it's not gushing (or even carbing up for that matter) it's already starting to taste sour.

Looking at the dates and knowing when things started going south (mid May for just about everything, only a matter of weeks for the amber), it's apparent to me that the plague was getting more and more troublesome and taking less time to cause problems with each successive brew.

Bad habits I was practicing - I never washed my bottles, so to speak, because I've always been afraid of the effects of soap residue. I always rinse my bottles out as soon as I drink a beer, and they get hot rinsed and sanitized with StarSan on bottling day. I also had never taken apart the spigot on my bottling bucket or my bottling wands. I simply let all my bottling equipment take a nice long soak in StarSan while I got everything ready for bottling.

Take aways - Even after dismantling and soaking all the individual bits of my bottling bucket spigot in a scalding hot PBW bath, I'm afraid of losing another batch, so I plan to pitch the old spigot and go straight to using my new bottling bucket. I'll be sure to take apart and PBW all my equipment after bottling each batch. I'm also going through and cleaning all my bottles with PBW to make sure there's no residual nasties that I can't see, and then I'm storing them upside down in the box until needed. On bottling day, they'll get another crazy hot rinse and double duty ******** with StarSan. Just for grins, even though I soaked all my silicone tubing in PBW the other day, the folks at my LBHS suggested boiling my tubing just to be on the safe side, and I'm gonna take that advice.

I'm chalking this all up to one great big learning experience. I'm certain I'll have something go wonky on me some time down the line, but it won't be for lack of me trying!

 

[55x11]

@55x11 - In order, they are...

Barleywine - OG 1.113, FG 1.002, Pitched 1/23/16, Bottled 5/5/16
Small Beer (parti-gyle batch off the above mentioned barleywine) - OG 1.048, FG 1.02, Pitched 1/23/16, Bottled 3/9/16
Porter - OG 1.052, FG 1.014, Pitched 2/16/16, Bottled 3/10/16
DIS - OG 1.038, FG 1.016, Pitched 3/17/16, Bottled 4/18/16
Amber - OG 1.041, FG 1.008, Pitched 7/25/16, Bottled 8/9/16

Except for the amber and the barleywine, every one of those beers was very drinkable up through May. The barleywine is getting tossed because even though it's not gushing (or even carbing up for that matter) it's already starting to taste sour.

Looking at the dates and knowing when things started going south (mid May for just about everything, only a matter of weeks for the amber), it's apparent to me that the plague was getting more and more troublesome and taking less time to cause problems with each successive brew.

Bad habits I was practicing - I never washed my bottles, so to speak, because I've always been afraid of the effects of soap residue. I always rinse my bottles out as soon as I drink a beer, and they get hot rinsed and sanitized with StarSan on bottling day. I also had never taken apart the spigot on my bottling bucket or my bottling wands. I simply let all my bottling equipment take a nice long soak in StarSan while I got everything ready for bottling.

Take aways - Even after dismantling and soaking all the individual bits of my bottling bucket spigot in a scalding hot PBW bath, I'm afraid of losing another batch, so I plan to pitch the old spigot and go straight to using my new bottling bucket. I'll be sure to take apart and PBW all my equipment after bottling each batch. I'm also going through and cleaning all my bottles with PBW to make sure there's no residual nasties that I can't see, and then I'm storing them upside down in the box until needed. On bottling day, they'll get another crazy hot rinse and double duty ******** with StarSan. Just for grins, even though I soaked all my silicone tubing in PBW the other day, the folks at my LBHS suggested boiling my tubing just to be on the safe side, and I'm gonna take that advice.

I'm chalking this all up to one great big learning experience. I'm certain I'll have something go wonky on me some time down the line, but it won't be for lack of me trying!

I am a bit surprised you got gushing in your barley wine - low FG (really at 1.002? Or did you mean 1.020?) and high alcohol/hop content should inhibit most wild bugs.

I used similar bottle-washing technique to yours (before I converted to kegging, but on occasional bottle filling I do the same thing) - rinse in hot water, then starsan-wash it using bottle washing rinser/ "bidet":
http://www.northernbrewer.com/vinat...8ES68riGIexk96kFFkKDdsroaGu7aEtoQEaAmui8P8HAQ

The spigot/bucket/filler/transfer lines may be the problem.

Honestly, I would just replace ALL plastic stuff that was ever in contact with previous beers on the cold side and get a new bottling bucket, new bottle wand, tubing. You can keep hot-brewing side equipment of course, no problem (kettle, chiller etc.). And keep the bottles - obviously glass carboy can be cleaned too.

Glass and Stainless you can clean. Plastic may harbor stuff forever.

You may have to pay - what? - maybe, $50, to replace all of it, but how much is your time and your beer worth to you? (it's sorta like asking how much your children are worth to you)

But don't throw it away in the garbage just yet. Instead - start a new "sour beer line" - clearly mark all the stuff as "sour equipment" and brew a Flanders Red Ale or Oud Bruin or something like that. Pitch some wild yeast and let it sit for a year or so.

Make lemons into lemonade. A very sour, awesome "lemonade".

 

[stuknkrvl]

I am a bit surprised you got gushing in your barley wine - low FG (really at 1.002? Or did you mean 1.020?) and high alcohol/hop content should inhibit most wild bugs.

I used similar bottle-washing technique to yours (before I converted to kegging, but on occasional bottle filling I do the same thing) - rinse in hot water, then starsan-wash it using bottle washing rinser/ "bidet":
http://www.northernbrewer.com/vinat...8ES68riGIexk96kFFkKDdsroaGu7aEtoQEaAmui8P8HAQ

The barleywine isn't gushing, but is starting to taste foul. And that's not a typo - it fermented out to 1.002. I used the WLP099 super high gravity yeast. It's claimed it can ferment out to over 20%. I made a lot of mistakes with it, though - essentially didn't follow the instructions which call for stepped/staggered pitching throughout the fermentation process, and my home made stir plate kicked the bucket so my starter was made down and dirty in a sanitized gallon milk jug and shaking it every so often to keep the yeast in suspension. Regardless, the alternative ABV equation for high gravity beers on Brewer's Friend says I hit over 16% with the beast!

I also use the vinator bottle sanitizer, and I do my hot rinse with the jet bottle washer --> http://www.northernbrewer.com/jet-bottle-washer <--

Thirty five bucks worth of equipment literally shaved hours of labor off my bottling days.

Thanks for the suggestion about turning my suspect equipment in to sour batch equipment. I absolutely love, love, love sours, and I've been wanting to delve in to the style. Now I have dedicated equipment!

 

[BlueHouseBrewhaus]

Two things - You mention never dismantling your spigot or wand. This would be my prime suspect. It may solve your problem right there. The second issue is what was the "sour" flavor? If it was truly sour (i.e. lacto), I stick with the spigot/wand theory. If the flavor is more like vinegar, it is an acetobacter infection.

A year or two ago I had back to back aceto infections. One took a couple of months to develop and one took just a few weeks. I had noticed some fruit flies buzzing around during bottling (basket of bananas nearby) and discovered that they carry acetobacter. Now I keep the fruit away and keep my bottling bucket covered. No more aceto infections.

As for your bottles, even if your cleaning regimen is not the best, I doubt every single bottle would develop an infection. This really seems to be tied to the bucket/spigot/wand or possibly the siphon and hose.

 

[stuknkrvl]

Two things - You mention never dismantling your spigot or wand. This would be my prime suspect. It may solve your problem right there. The second issue is what was the "sour" flavor? If it was truly sour (i.e. lacto), I stick with the spigot/wand theory. If the flavor is more like vinegar, it is an acetobacter infection.

A year or two ago I had back to back aceto infections. One took a couple of months to develop and one took just a few weeks. I had noticed some fruit flies buzzing around during bottling (basket of bananas nearby) and discovered that they carry acetobacter. Now I keep the fruit away and keep my bottling bucket covered. No more aceto infections.

As for your bottles, even if your cleaning regimen is not the best, I doubt every single bottle would develop an infection. This really seems to be tied to the bucket/spigot/wand or possibly the siphon and hose.

Funny you should mention fruit flies...

A while back we had what seemed to be a never ending fruit fly infestation in our house. Maybe that's the culprit after all.

 

[Brew_G]

Funny you should mention fruit flies...



A while back we had what seemed to be a never ending fruit fly infestation in our house. Maybe that's the culprit after all.

I agree with your initial diagnosis and those who have mentioned it. If you had gunk in your boring wand and/or your bottling spigot, then I don't think you have to look any further. Fruit flies would only get into your beer during fermentation or packaging, so unless you live in a region that has fruit flies all year (or if you live in the Southern Hemisphere), that wouldn't have been an issue early in January-May. You want to keep them at bay, of course, but I'd be much more focused on your cleaning/sanitizing regimen.

 

[dwhite60]

I hate to trash beer.

I've got a saison I made many months ago that started, I won't say gushing but foaming like heck when poured, after about eight weeks in the bottle. Tastes fine, just gushes when open and foams like heck when poured.

So, before I put one in the fridge I crack the top and vent it until it foams almost to the cap. Re-seal the cap and put it in the fridge. Over the next couple days I'll vent it a couple more times. I find that after doing this three times and the beer gets cold, the gushing is done and it pours a LOT better.

I think you are on the right track though cleaning everything and thoroughly. replace what you can.

I put a lot of time, money, and love into my beer. It's going to have to smell like raw sewage before it gets dumped.

All the Best,
D. White