Boil time

[Qhrumphf]

Indeed. Hot break (and cold break) is stuff you want to coagulate and remove from your beer.

The foam that kicks up in the boil is just that, foam, which you do not want to remove from your beer.

The thing with the proteins that make up beer foam is that they only get to form foam once. So foam at the start of the boil is potential foam lost from your beer. Likewise foam during transfers, aeration, fermentation, packaging, and so on. So any chance you have to avoid a lot of foam means better head on the beer. Use of anti foam (Fermcap S) in the boil and elsewhere is a common commercial practice homebrewers for some reason rarely take advantage of.

Except legally Fermcap S must be filtered. Commercial breweries who don't filter can't legally use it. Of course that doesn't always stop people.

 

[Robert65]

Except legally Fermcap S must be filtered. Commercial breweries who don't filter can't legally use it. Of course that doesn't always stop people.

It is also removed by precipitation with the yeast even in unfiltered beer, as noted in application information from the manufacturers I have read. Legal requirements are not always based on actual necessity. Similarly, PVPP legally must be removed by filtration in some jurisdictions, but of course its very virtue is that it precipitates. Homebrewers can comfortably use such products without filtration.

 

[Qhrumphf]

It is also removed by precipitation with the yeast even in unfiltered beer, as noted in application information from the manufacturers I have read. Legal requirements are not always based on actual necessity. Similarly, PVPP legally must be removed by filtration in some jurisdictions, but of course its very virtue is that it precipitates. Homebrewers can comfortably use such products without filtration.

Yes, no issues with homebrewers at all. Rather just pointing out that it's not universal commercially, at least among smaller guys since FDA/TTB requirements are what they are.

 

[SEndorf]

I do 90 minute boils and start my timer at the first sign of churn.
There is no "right way", but you must be consistent to calculate your boil off.
There is a difference between "foam" and "foop" (the thick gunk rising at the hot break). Foam is inconsequential. Foop, I scoop.

 

[balrog]

I wait for the boil and some of the foam to subside, slowly add the hops because sometimes that causes more foam

This. Boiling chips from chemistry class; hops give nucleation points and inevitably make more foam with me.

the hops break surface tension and keep the foaming and boilover risk down

Boy does my sticky, messy, garage floor like the sound of this!

you must be consistent to calculate your boil off

This to infinity.

 

[kh54s10]

I also add hops just *before* boil. As it starts churning the hops break surface tension and keep the foaming and boilover risk down. As soon as boil starts, timer starts.

This hasn't been my experience... For me it has been add the hops before the foam has subsided = foam eruption!!!!

 

[Qhrumphf]

This hasn't been my experience... For me it has been add the hops before the foam has subsided = foam eruption!!!!

This is why I don't wait until it's boiling (I'll add em a few defrees shy, like 208-210F near sea level). If the hops are already dispersed and saturated they're not gonna nucleate like they would actually at boil. Hot break does not factor into my timing at all. Hell, if I start the boil without hops, I'm MORE likely to get a boilover. This has been my experience when trying to do hop bursted/whirlpool only type beers.

 

[kh54s10]

This is why I don't wait until it's boiling (I'll add em a few defrees shy, like 208-210F near sea level). If the hops are already dispersed and saturated they're not gonna nucleate like they would actually at boil. Hot break does not factor into my timing at all. Hell, if I start the boil without hops, I'm MORE likely to get a boilover. This has been my experience when trying to do hop bursted/whirlpool only type beers.

I don't know what the temperature actually was, I added the hops at the very first sign of wort bubbling through the foam. Instant boil over. Never did that again. Did a few first wort hop brews. When adding more hops, yes after the foam subsided...., Foam explosion.

Guess I need to try someday at a lower temperature...before reaching a boil??? I will be ready for a boilover.

BTW, most of my boil overs occurred while perusing HBT and not watching the pot!!!!!

 

[Qhrumphf]

Oh and just to be clear regarding @Brooothru's observations: diacetyl is a VDK, a fermentation product. DMS is not.

At least via standard sacch. IIRC some bacteria can throw DMS as well as diacetyl (perhaps metabolising any residual SMM? I don't recall), perhaps some wild yeast as well.

 

[RPh_Guy]

some bacteria can throw DMS as well as diacetyl [...], perhaps some wild yeast as well.

For what it's worth, I have heard that too, but I don't know the mechanism (or know if it's really true).

 

[Robert65]

BTW to address the actual question of the OP, for most of my beers all of my hops go in as FWH, and always at least a large portion of them. First sign of boil, 60 minute countdown starts. No boilovers, even when I don't use Fermcap.

 

[RPh_Guy]

For what it's worth, I have heard that too, but I don't know the mechanism (or know if it's really true).

MTF to the rescue
http://www.milkthefunk.com/wiki/Dimethyl_Sulfide

 

[FloppyKnockers]

My timer starts right when I hit the start button.

 

[Broothru]

This is why I don't wait until it's boiling (I'll add em a few defrees shy, like 208-210F near sea level). If the hops are already dispersed and saturated they're not gonna nucleate like they would actually at boil. Hot break does not factor into my timing at all. Hell, if I start the boil without hops, I'm MORE likely to get a boilover. This has been my experience when trying to do hop bursted/whirlpool only type beers.

Great points. One more update to incorporate in my processes and procedures.

Brooo Brother

 

[CascadesBrewer]

I also add hops just *before* boil. As it starts churning the hops break surface tension and keep the foaming and boilover risk down. As soon as boil starts, timer starts.

Same here. I probably should be more consistent about when I add my bittering hops...but I kinda figure that 60 min vs 70 min will not make much difference. Adding the hops before the boil starts helps to keep down the boil over risks (vs risking boil over when boil starts, then again when adding hops...though I have quite a bit of headspace in my kettles anyway).

 

[Qhrumphf]

Same here. I probably should be more consistent about when I add my bittering hops...but I kinda figure that 60 min vs 70 min will not make much difference. Adding the hops before the boil starts helps to keep down the boil over risks (vs risking boil over when boil starts, then again when adding hops...though I have quite a bit of headspace in my kettles anyway).

So many factors into bitterness that I don't pay mind to IBU calcs apart from getting to the ballpark for a first go at a recipe. Will it be more bitter than waiting and hopping later immediately starting timer? Sure, a little, but no calculator is gonna get the number right under either process. But if you're aware of it, then it doesn't matter either way. As long as that particular recipe is done the same way every time, that's all that matters. Adjust hopping relative to itself, and absolutely nothing else.

 

[balrog]

I figure there is more variation in hop bittering potential due to lots, storage & age than with any time variations of starting timers a few minutes here or there.