Boil kettle condenser - no overhead ventilation needed

[missiletech]

Haven't brewed yet but boiled some water.

35 gallons boiling at around 40% power produced some hot waste water still.

Might waste some electricity on it again today since I got my water lines in yesterday.

 

[Frazeart]

Got mine installed (drilling through the SS Brewtech Kettle was a bear even on my drill press with a cobalt pilot bit). I am doing the maiden voyage on Saturday with my Oktober's Fist (Octoberfest) recipe.

 

[Charlie139]

Nice job @Charlie139 . One comment that might help with mods over time... you do not need much feed water - a small tube (1/4" / 6mm OD... even 1/8" / 3mm) would provide enough flow.

Thanks for your advice Brundog and ten80. I hadn’t considered that valid point. Things are challenging over here. I live on the top two floors of an 8 story apartment. The municipal water pressure fluctuates a lot and disappears altogether for hours at a time. Usually on weekends. My cunning plan was to use an old boil kettle for a water reservoir. I sourced an RV pump with the recommended specs and installed it on my stand. The pump manufacturer calls for a min 10 mm output line. I kinda looked around my brewery for spare parts that I thought would work. The output hose that I’m trying now is kegging gas line so it’s not quite 10 mm ID. I think that is causing my cheap RV pump to oscillate between on and off really quickly. To remedy that, I was thinking of adding an RV water pressure accumulator tank. That would go well with your advice about using a smaller lighter line to the condenser. Any thoughts? Thanks C

 

[Charlie139]

Agreed, and running a garden hose to your steam condenser really adds a lot of weight to the kettle lid. It's much easier to manage a very small 1/4" hose.

Thanks ten80. I’m looking into a remedy that will incorporate your advice. Greatly appreciated. C

 

[BrunDog]

You would need a high pressure/low flow pump which can run nearly dead-headed for long periods of time. That pump likely isn't it - and probably has a cut-off switch for high pressure, hence the oscillation.

 

[ten80]

You would need a high pressure/low flow pump which can run nearly dead-headed for long periods of time. That pump likely isn't it - and probably has a cut-off switch for high pressure, hence the oscillation.

A small diaphragm pump might do the trick alone, but would be even better with a small pressure tank and pressure switch. I use 12v diaphragm pumps for filtering sediment out of water at work and they are quite robust, though I'm doing ~5 gpm at ~20 PSI. I'm not specifically recommending any, but here's an example:
https://www.amazon.com/bayite-Press...keywords=diaphragm+pump&qid=1587747187&sr=8-6

 

[RabbitHole]

I have scoured the internet searching for the “math” to figure out what my GPM rate would be for 50°F injection water! Any tips!!????

 

[Frazeart]

Hi guys. Hoping I can tap into the brain trust for help tuning my new steam slayer. I ran my first batch today with the new widebody steam slayer and the 9gph attachment (though it outputs closer to 13 gallons in my hour long boil. I have this running on a ssbrewtech 2v 15 gallon kettle with 5500 watt element. I put in 9.5 gallons of 1.042 wort, got it to boil, turned on the slayer (water started filling the bucket with no visible steam escaping the lid), turned the element down to 50% power and let it run for an hour. At the end of the hour, I had 9 gallons of left at 1.045 (target was 1.049).

What should I be changing to tune it closer to what I want? Just increase the power?

Thanks all.

 

[cbier60]

Actually, no. I'd say you need to adjust your projected boil-off rate to match your true boil-off with the steam slayer instead of trying to meet the boil-off rate you previously experienced.You will have much lower boil-off and evaporation with the steam slayer than with an open boil. That's a benefit in almost all cases as long as you properly account for it.

 

[Bobby_M]

Think about when you first learned about the progressive losses of volume in an all grain system. You learned that the boil off rate was primarily a result, not a driven goal to reach. Imagine that brewing with the SteamSlayer is a new system where you have to discover the boil off rate. You dial in your boil intensity to keep the foam from filling the entire headspace (and potentially flushing down the waste line) and then measure the boil off rate. Now integrate that new number into your recipe calculations henceforth.

 

[Frazeart]

Think about when you first learned about the progressive losses of volume in an all grain system. You learned that the boil off rate was primarily a result, not a driven goal to reach. Imagine that brewing with the SteamSlayer is a new system where you have to discover the boil off rate. You dial in your boil intensity to keep the foam from filling the entire headspace (and potentially flushing down the waste line) and then measure the boil off rate. Now integrate that new number into your recipe calculations henceforth.

Ok. I guess I am just hoping that I can dial it in closer I guess. Going to be pretty challenging on high gravity beers. Before the steamslayer i was boiling off 1.5 gph at 77% power. This brew, I boiled off just under .5 gph at 50% power. I only gained 3 gravity points which isn't ideal.

On 5 or 10 gallon systems, how many gravity points are other people here gaining? I expected given the descriptions from others here to cut my boil off in half, not to under a third.

I will say this though.. there was no steam. It was slayed. A bit of a challenge using my Hydra imersion chiller though. I hadn't thought about that. No way to use it as intended, being sanitized for last 10 min of boil. You also have to be damn careful not to scald your face with steam lifting the kettle lid to add hops. New protocols.

 

[Bobby_M]

Ok. I guess I am just hoping that I can dial it in closer I guess. Going to be pretty challenging on high gravity beers. Before the steamslayer i was boiling off 1.5 gph at 77% power. This brew, I boiled off just under .5 gph at 50% power. I only gained 3 gravity points which isn't ideal.

On 5 or 10 gallon systems, how many gravity points are other people here gaining? I expected given the descriptions from others here to cut my boil off in half, not to under a third.

I will say this though.. there was no steam. It was slayed. A bit of a challenge using my Hydra imersion chiller though. I hadn't thought about that. No way to use it as intended, being sanitized for last 10 min of boil. You also have to be damn careful not to scald your face with steam lifting the kettle lid to add hops. New protocols.

I've been challenging the long standing proposition that chillers need to ride in the boil for that long anyway. I literally put my chiller in after I cut the power and have been doing that for 8 years. What do folks think is living on the chiller that needs to boil for that long to kill?

.5 gallons is pretty low. I start my boil at 7.5 gallons and boil down to 6.5 before chilling. I boil at 29-30% output. I don't have an explanation as to your experience.

 

[fun4stuff]

I've been challenging the long standing proposition that chillers need to ride in the boil for that long anyway. I literally put my chiller in after I cut the power and have been doing that for 8 years. What do folks think is living on the chiller that needs to boil for that long to kill?

.5 gallons is pretty low. I start my boil at 7.5 gallons and boil down to 6.5 before chilling. I boil at 29-30% output. I don't have an explanation as to your experience.

I've been putting my chiller I for just a min or two for years. No issues.

 

[Bohern]

How is the best / easiest way to tell if you need to use the 6 gph or the 9 gph spray nozzle?

Thanks

 

[RiverCityBrewer]

Largely it is going to depend on what your water pressure and average temperature is. Lower water pressure and/or higher water temp, go with the 9. Higher water pressure and/or lower water temp, go with the 6. Where I live, I have about 70psi and wintertime water temps get into the 40s and summer temps into the high 70s. Due to higher pressure and average temp in the high 50s, I can get away with the 6gph.

 

[Bohern]

Largely it is going to depend on what your water pressure and average temperature is. Lower water pressure and/or higher water temp, go with the 9. Higher water pressure and/or lower water temp, go with the 6. Where I live, I have about 70psi and wintertime water temps get into the 40s and summer temps into the high 70s. Due to higher pressure and average temp in the high 50s, I can get away with the 6gph.

I live in Atlanta GA so it very rarely get real cold here and summer is very warm in the 90's with high humidity.

 

[missiletech]

Is there another nozzle that's a higher gph?

 

[BrunDog]

How is the best / easiest way to tell if you need to use the 6 gph or the 9 gph spray nozzle?

Thanks

Use the calculator!

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/thread...erhead-ventilation-needed.636955/post-8361823

 

[Bohern]

Use the calculator!

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/thread...erhead-ventilation-needed.636955/post-8361823

I am sorry BrunDog, I have been following this thread for a long time but don't know of the calculator you speak of. I am guessing I missed that post.

EDIT: But if you don't mind please point me in the right direction sir, it will be greatly appreciated. Many thanks.

 

[day_trippr]

https://onedrive.live.com/view.aspx...580&ithint=file,xlsx&authkey=!AI0lsmnkInS0uiM
Link is in that post BrunDog referenced...

Cheers!

 

[BrunDog]

I posted the post where I linked the link. It seems oddly formatted here but if you click it, it will take you to the post with the link.

OK, here is the direct link for those preferring the easy button: Steam Condenser calculations public.xlsx

 

[missiletech]

This states finer atomization but goes from 8gph to 17gph...

If it was cheaper I'd buy both and play with it but I might wait until I lock down my post military employment.

**EDIT: What boil of rate is the calculator set for? As this can be variable as well even if we're talking normal conditions (no lid). I can boil 1BBL with 50% power no lid or much higher and the evaporation rate changes greatly.

Also to note, whether useful or not, stout has a spreadsheet on their website:

https://conical-fermenter.com/Electric-Brewing-Percent-Setting-Worksheet.html
***Additional EDIT: I just realized That the default evap. rate on my rig, 2 5500w elements and 1 bbl, is about 56-60% power and if I move down to the condenser setting (~35%) that allows:

-Minimal steam (via the hose, nearly 0 from the lid)
-Hot effluent (over 150F)
-Audible boiling

I get 1.4-1.6 gph at that 30-30% power which matches my water tests thus far.

My biggest struggle is feeling like you have to trust the process when every boil up to this point has been fully eyes on. You can tell the heat energy drops when opening the lid by a shift in the audible boil sound level and frequency but it's hard to judge visually because it mellows out with all the steam (heat) leaving. #fullgeekmode

 

[missiletech]

So now that I have numbers all over in front of me... does it make sense that I adjust the boil off rate to adjust my power setting to match the GPH of the 9GPH nozzle? <I'm on well water, 45psig at the house generally, well on a 40/60psi setting. Water is 365' down,, avg temp is 55F all year>

Example: I input the decreasing evap. rates on the power setting sheet (60 min column) until I was either just over or under 9gph.

-1.2gph evap rate; 55F; 8.4GPH calculated spray needed; 26% power

-1.4gph evap rate; 55F; 9.8GPH calculated spray needed; 30% power

Because it seems as if I don't I either:
1. Accept steam leaking OR
2. I'd have to figure out a pressure increase OR
3. More likely just buy/try that 17gph head (which on paper could allow a just over 2 gph evap rate at about 50% power) and find a bigger bucket/shorten my boil time. (Huge fan of the short&shoddy results on Brulosophy)

Overall... way too much time on my hands... I should be applying to a Lockheed job that was offered to me but I'm not in a hurry to work on missiles... again.

 

[Spartan1979]

I'm getting about 16 gph through my 9 gph nozzle. Water is cheap here, about a penny a gallon so I don't mind it it. I discharged directly into the drain system in the house, so I feel more comfortable with a lower temperature.

 

[RiverCityBrewer]

Similarly, I get about 10 gph through my 6gph nozzle. I think the rating was at 40psi, and I'm sitting at 70.

 

[BrunDog]

Mo' pressha... mo' flo!

 

[missiletech]

I'd bump my pressure up but I don't believe I should move it much. It's always above 40psi but never above 65psi and I did bump it up about 5 psi.

EDIT: I own a 2 party well that will eventually serve 3 parties as my in-laws are in an attached accessory dwelling unit and even though it's a whole house, doesn't count as a service connection legally because it's one 1.25" water main. The neighbors next door will be building in the next 6 months and will also be on the well via their own 1.25" minimum connection.

I definitely don't want to ruin anyone's day by making my water service meet my brewing needs.... well, mostly don't.

 

[Bohern]

I posted the post where I linked the link. It seems oddly formatted here but if you click it, it will take you to the post with the link.

OK, here is the direct link for those preferring the easy button: Steam Condenser calculations public.xlsx

TY Sir! After I posted I figured it out after I clicked the other part of your post. I logged off shortly there after but wanted to come and say thanks.

Also I appreciate all of your efforts on this thread as well.

Cheers!

 

[RocketBrewer]

Overall... way too much time on my hands... I should be applying to a Lockheed job that was offered to me but I'm not in a hurry to work on missiles... again.

Where did you work? I was laid off from Aerojet in December

 

[missiletech]

I've been a MT in the Navy, retire this month.

EDIT: If you're looking for another rocket company I've met quite a few people who love working at Blue Origin... I know one guy was so excited at how much nicer it was than SpaceX.