Blueberry Cider

[BrewinJack]

jeeze tusch, this is one hell of a project... over a year in the making. My hat is off to sounds like a brew for the ages... when i next open a bottle of my own home brew i will raise the glass is your honor. and pray to god that i could burrow some of your pacients.

Cheers

 

[Tusch]

The patients is an illusion, I just can't see my brew unless I go look for it. That's the only reason it lasted as long as it did. I will probably post up some pics tonight, left town for the weekend before I found my camera.

 

[DrDarwin]

Would it be advantageous in a recipe like this to use only blueberry juice (instead of apple) if possible? Does this implicity take away its cider quality? Are there other considerations I'm not thinking of?

 

[Tusch]

Well as I stated a bit earlier in the thread, this is definitely not a cider anymore, with an alcohol percentage of around 13 by volume, this is definitely a fruit wine. Having said that, using blueberry juice instead of a mixture will certainly up the blueberry flavor a ton, since I used very little blueberry juice relative to apple juice. Also, that would be insanely expensive, since blueberry juice is considered one of those top shelf juices. When I bought the juice for the secondary additions, I believe it would have ended up being in the neighborhood of $30 a gallon, compared to $2-$5 for apple juice. So for a 6 gallon batch, that would be $180 for the juice alone, plus fruit if you chose to use it. Having said that, if you are able to buy blueberry juice much cheaper, then go for it, I imagine that would make a fantastic blueberry wine.

 

[DrDarwin]

Well as I stated a bit earlier in the thread, this is definitely not a cider anymore, with an alcohol percentage of around 13 by volume, this is definitely a fruit wine. Having said that, using blueberry juice instead of a mixture will certainly up the blueberry flavor a ton, since I used very little blueberry juice relative to apple juice. Also, that would be insanely expensive, since blueberry juice is considered one of those top shelf juices. When I bought the juice for the secondary additions, I believe it would have ended up being in the neighborhood of $30 a gallon, compared to $2-$5 for apple juice. So for a 6 gallon batch, that would be $180 for the juice alone, plus fruit if you chose to use it. Having said that, if you are able to buy blueberry juice much cheaper, then go for it, I imagine that would make a fantastic blueberry wine.

I guess you did mention that it wasn't a cider a couple of times... are the semantics simply determined by abv?

Saying I can get blueberries and blueberry juice cheap is an understatement... my girlfriend's father has an organic blueberry farm. Right now I can get pounds of frozen blueberries hand over fist. I've read in a couple of places that adding pre-frozen berries is a good way to go. As I understand it, the cellular composition changes are advantageous because they basically start the decomposition process early, making it easier for the yeast. If that's true for the added berries, does the same stand for use of thawed berries for the juice? This is obviously a seasonal problem... come harvest, fresh blueberry juice should be readily available.

 

[Tusch]

Alcohol percentage is one way to differenciate between wines and ciders. I go by that definition for comparing fruit ciders to country wines anyways, but I am sure others have their own views.

It has been suggested to me to thaw, refreeze and thaw the frozen berries again before using them. This process helps to break down the cell walls allowing a quicker, easier, and more complete extraction of the fruit's goodness. If you want to use the berries to squeeze your own juice, then you are on your own, as I have never done that with blueberries. I am sure however that you could come up with an amazing brew with that quality of berries and subsequently juice. I wish my girl's dad was a organic fruit farmer! Though I just found out my roommate can get me free wine grape juice for free by the 5 gal bucket.

Ok, seriously I will be updating this post specifically with pictures within half an hour, I promise!
*Edited, stupid internet delayed me

This gives you can idea of the color. The long necked bottle is the 500ml from the blueberry dessert my friend gave me, this will be his Christmas present. The two small bottles are 12 oz Jones bottles. This is kind of an experiment as well. I bottled 18 of these. I first tested the bottles for leaking with two types of corks before risking my wine in it. So far so good, though clearly wine stains the cork quite heavily, no leaks or losses so far. The 4th bottle, the dark one with the film on top is how the majority of the batch was bottled. All these need now if labeling. My sister's artist boyfriend has finished a few designs for me and I will be getting them this weekend. Hopefully I will have time to get them, finalize the labels, and label at least the bottles that are going out as gifts in time for Christmas. And yes, as the post whore I am, I will undoubtly add yet another update my own thread selfishly to show off the new label designs.

 

[DrDarwin]

Well, you've inspired me. Something like this is now on my short list. Cheers.

 

[matt1776]

Looking to start a batch in a couple of weeks.

How do yall think the taste will be affected by spending less time in the fermenters? I really can't wait a year, not enough patience.

My only experience was with apple cider, which spent about three weeks in the primary and three in secondary fermenters. Would adding the blueberries change the time? Or does the added time just add to the mellowing and mingling of flavors?

I'm thinking of starting with maybe a gallon of blueberry juice and four gallons of apple.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Salud,
Matt

 

[Poobah58]

Tusch, did you still bottle all of the batch?

 

[DragonTail]

After reading thru this post, I think I may start a ~3gal batch.
Primary:
2 gal of cider/juice
2 cans Oregon blueberry puree
Not sure on yeast
Secondary:
4-5# frozen bluberries
1 can Oregon blueberry puree

Don't know if I can call this a cider but will see how it turns out.
Thanks for the inspiration.

 

[Tusch]

Matt, the extended time is not a necessity. I chose a pretty long schedule to allow for good mellowing and aging, plus it allowed me to change the recipe around a bit and make it more complex.

Poobah, yes I bottled the whole batch still. It is fairly thin bodied, and I think would take well to some carbonation though. I think I try a newer version, I will put some of the bottles in a champagne like carbonation, could be fun for new years in a year or two.

Dragon, sounds like you have the makings of a very cool project. That certainly would add different flavors, along with a stronger blueberry presence, let me know how it turns out. Also, is that you driving down the tail?

 

[DragonTail]

Dragon, sounds like you have the makings of a very cool project. That certainly would add different flavors, along with a stronger blueberry presence, let me know how it turns out. Also, is that you driving down the tail?

No, that is me at a local track day this past year. Haven't made it out to the gap yet.

 

[matt1776]

More questions:

What do the Craisins add to the mix?

Is it for flavor or sugars?

Speaking of; besides Splenda (I can't stand the aftertaste) what else is good for sweetening the cider? I don't want anything super dry.

Matt

 

[RugenBrau]

Matt,
Lactose is a non fermentable sugar but it takes a little more. Ounce for ounce it is not as sweet as dextrose. Some people use stevia but I haven't yet. Just be careful and add a little at a time. If I'm sweetening I try to bulk age it because over time there sems to be a slight change

 

[matt1776]

Thanks. I've never used a sweetener before. How much dextrose should I add to a 5 gallon batch if I want just a little sweetness. I don't mind dry, but most of my friends enjoy a hint of sweetness.

Thanks,
Matt

 

[RugenBrau]

Dextrose is fermentable. That won't help you out.

 

[Tusch]

You could stabilize your brew and then add dextrose or honey, or table sugar. If you don't want to stabilize, you will need to use an unfermentable sweetener, like splenda, stevia, lactose as mentioned.

 

[matt1776]

You could stabilize your brew and then add dextrose or honey, or table sugar. If you don't want to stabilize, you will need to use an unfermentable sweetener, like splenda, stevia, lactose as mentioned.

Thanks. I was getting my sugars confused, lactose it is.

DOes anyone know if Stevia has an aftertaste? Then again, I'm guessing it's expensive anyway.

I've never stabilized my beer. What exactly is that?

Planning on doing this next weekend. Getting excitied...


Matt

 

[matt1776]

Here's what I'm thinking, largely based on Tusch's recipe. Any thoughts? Should I save the blueberry juice until secondary?

Primary:
5 gallons Apple Juice
.25 gallons Blueberry Juice (the **** is expensive!)
2 lbs. Frozen Blueberries
1 lbs Light Brown Sugar
1 lbs Clover Honey
White Labs English Cider Yeast

Secondary:
Haven't considered yet.

Matt

 

[Tusch]

Looks like a good start to me matt. When you transfer to secondary, you will have to decide then if you want to add anything. Consider the color, aroma, and how much blueberry flavor you want it to have. Perhaps you will end up wanting to add to it, and perhaps it is exactly what you want right then.

 

[effigyoffaith]

mat1776,
to my taste stevia has an unpleasent bitter/licorice aftertaste that I would never want in a wine. I grew some because it sounded useful for sweetening wine but after tasting some i'd never try it.

 

[matt1776]

O.K. Instead of 2lbs brown sugar,
I went with 1lbs brown sugar and 1lbs clover honey.
OG was 1.060.

We shall see.

 

[matt1776]

Update:

She's been bubbling away for a month now. WOndering when I should move to secondary.

Matt

 

[Tusch]

You can rack it whenever you feel it is ready. I suggest racking before fermentation is complete. Yooper recommended I rack to secondary between 1.010-1.020 so that some of the sugars are left, to produce enough co2 to get rid of the o2 in the secondary, preventing oxidation.

 

[matt1776]

Update:

I moved to secondary about a month ago. It tasted too appleish, so I added another .25gallons blueberry juice. For almost two weeks nothing happened. I was afraid all the yeast was dead/gone. Suddenly, a few bubbles started forming at the top. I guess I'll wait another few weeks and retaste.

Matt

 

[mwhc22]

IM testing a batch soon that consists of 2 gallons of apple juice and 1/2 gallon of blueberry juice...and 1lb of fermentable brew sugar. then i used monarchet or however you spell it for the yeast... its been fermenting now for almost 3 months... i think i may bottle it this weekend actually and see what she tastes like

 

[Tusch]

Keep us updated both of you, and if you happen to get any pics share those too!

 

[mwhc22]

Keep us updated both of you, and if you happen to get any pics share those too!

sure thing... i don't think im going to get to bottling today. but tomorrow im going to be a homebody so ill prolly do it then.

 

[mwhc22]

k...here are a few pics from when i bottled the blueberry apfelwein.

im not sure that i like it though. i think the half gallon of blueberry juice was to much for it. its veeeerrrry tart. if i had used a yeast that left it a little sweeter it would be ok. but it also has a bit of a yeasty smell when its warmer...and even tastes a little like it too when its warmer. when its fresh out of the fridge its kinda of good but pretty tart. almost like a pure cranbeery juice tartness. now that i think back to im not sure if i used monachet yeast or cot des blanc? i remember the brew shop was out of monachet back around the time i made this and some normal apfelwein. i used cot des blanc on the normal apfel wein and it had some of the wierd yeastyness that this one does too.

ps... the bluberry apfelwein had fermented and aged for 4 months in my closet before i bottled this weekend.

 

[Tusch]

I promise you are going to want to age this. Mine went very dry as well and early on it had a lot of the tartness you mentioned. Today, the apple and blueberry flavors have come back strong, the tartness is mellowed and I absolutely love it. Granted it did take a very long time to get to this point, but I will be starting another batch this summer, with some alterations of course (can't make the same thing twice haha)