Witbier Blue Balls Belgian Wit (Blue Moon Clone)

[millerbp]

I just build my first mash tun and I plan on trying it out this weekend with this recipe. So here's the question/clarification from the new guy:

Your Boil Size is listed as 6.5 gal, with a Mash In volume of 3.5 gal and Mash Out volume at 3.0 gal. Is "boil size" the total of the water going in at Mash In and Mash Out? Or is it the final volume of wort going to boil? If the latter, what additional volume of water will need to be added to account for grain adsorption?

Thanks.

 

[alz28]

Do you think I can make a starter with the yeast in the bottom of my Blue Moon bottle and use that for my yeast? Or is the yeast dead. There sure is alot in there. This was my first time pouring one into a glass, and I noticed the yeast floating around and a yeast cake on the bottom of the bottle.

 

[sidneysaintpe]

Well I fkd up and didn't make a starter and now my FG is 1.015 after 11 days. I hit all the mash numbers and also got 1.038 as a OG. Fermentation started quickly with good krausen that stayed on the top after airlock stopped bubbling 5 days ago. I was impatient and gave up on it, transfered to secondary already (in hindsight I should have stirred it up). I only have a pack of Safale-05, what do you suggest?

 

[Santalab_2000]

Hello all, after reading the forums here for a few weeks here at HBT I finally got around to joining up. I've been really impressed with the amount of useful information posted here and would like to give a big shout out of thanks to everyone who has contributed here!

Anyway, I just brewed up a partial mash version of this blue moon clone for my third ever homebrew and ran into a couple issues I hope you guys can clear up for me:

After cooling my wort, I kept sucking up little pieces of orange peel while racking to my primary. I guess I could have used a small grain bag for the orange peel and corriander, but that didn't occur to me until afterwards. Did anyone else run into this issue, or did everyone use a grain bag for their peel?

After a while I got fed up with restarting the siphon and just dumped the whole brewpot into the primary, minus some heavy trub at the bottom. I was thinking about it and I didn't see any mention of removing the orange peel and/or corriander from the wort before adding it to the primary. Right now, everything from the brew is in the primary. Is this okay, or am I going to end up with some sort of kick-me-in-the-face corriander-orange concoction?

One more thing, I used the dry safbrew WB-06 for this. I live in Japan and access to yeast and other homebrew supplies is very limited. I think someone asked earlier about using wb-06 with this recipe, so I'll make sure to post how this brew turns out.

 

[BierMuncher]

Everything should be fine.

I often get "extras" in my fermenter with this recipe.

Next time wrap a paint strainer bag around the cane-tip of you racking cane to act as a filter.

For now...you might want to let things settle for a day or two and then re-rack to another vessel to clean things up.

 

[Santalab_2000]

Hey, thanks for the quick reply Biermuncher! I had a few too many last night and must have been pretty worried cause I had a dream about my fermenter leaking.

That's a good idea about using the strainer bag to keep the tube from clogging up. Definitely something I'll put to use in the future. As for the secondary... Well, I don't have a secondary yet so I'll just have wait this one out. Everything seems to be going nicely though.

 

[NikolausXX]

Is there an advantage to using the flaked wheat, from my lhbs, the wheat malt is cheaper? I guess less crushing, but is the red rahr wheat I use for my hefs good for this recipe, or do I need to pony up for the flaked wheat?

 

[BierMuncher]

Is there an advantage to using the flaked wheat, from my lhbs, the wheat malt is cheaper? I guess less crushing, but is the red rahr wheat I use for my hefs good for this recipe, or do I need to pony up for the flaked wheat?

Flaked wheat gives a lighter, crisper mouthfeel. Replacing with all wheat malt would be a little on the sweet side.

 

[NikolausXX]

Thank you. I will have to see if they even offer flaked wheat. I am tossed between this recipe and a brown ale. The deciding factor will be the lhbs that is not on the internet. If they have flaked wheat for decent price, I will probably make this. I can get torrified wheat, but thats probably another can of worms. May have to reserve this recipe for my order from Midwest or Northern Brewer so I can get proper adjunct. Im in need of some more starsan, and local shops rape you on cost for that. I can buy the smallest bottle and pay the shipping and still cost less than local same with 5.2ph buffer.

 

[MeetsCriteria]

I am new to the forum and to homebrewing...I decided to go AG from the get go, and this will be my second brew. #1 is a SNPA clone which has spent 1 week in the conical so far. I'm still trying to learn my system, but got 69% efficiency right off the bat. (of course, how it turns out is anyone's guess!) Hopefully I can improve on that this time. I didn't worry about buffering my sparge (I fly-sparged), so hopefully that will buy me a couple of more points. Thanks for the great sounding recipe and the wealth of knowledge on this forum! I'll post the results when the time comes!

 

[BierMuncher]

I am new to the forum and to homebrewing...I decided to go AG from the get go, and this will be my second brew. #1 is a SNPA clone which has spent 1 week in the conical so far. I'm still trying to learn my system, but got 69% efficiency right off the bat. (of course, how it turns out is anyone's guess!) Hopefully I can improve on that this time. I didn't worry about buffering my sparge (I fly-sparged), so hopefully that will buy me a couple of more points. Thanks for the great sounding recipe and the wealth of knowledge on this forum! I'll post the results when the time comes!

Don't forget some pics. We need beer porn.

 

[dontman]

I did an extract version of this a few weeks back. It is one week in bottle. I have since switched to AG and I have the grains to do this AG. This will be an interesting experiment for me since it will be the first duplication between Extract and AG. I am interested in the differences

 

[MeetsCriteria]

Don't forget some pics. We need beer porn.

Challenge accepted!

Cheers,

Mike

 

[Santalab_2000]

Hey, just wanted to post an update. I let everything ferment (orange peel, corriander, and all) for two weeks in the primary. OG was spot on at 1.038 and final gravity was 1.010. When I tasted the hydro sample the bitter orange shock almost knocked my socks off. No hint of the corriander or any other flavors, probably becuase of the overpowering orange. Anyway, I was thinking that I was doomed and should have taken BierMuncher's advice to rack the beer off the orange peel into a secondary. Well, I guess that would be hard for me because I don't have a secondary (yet).

I bottled everything up with 3/4 cup of priming sugar, crossed my fingers, and hoped that the yeasties could work some magic. It's been conditioning for little over a week now at 16-17C (60-62F). I cracked one of my sampler bottles last night and it's great! The kick-me-in-the-face orange peel was gone and I could taste some of the spice from the corriander. Conditioning is far from finished, but I think with a couple more weeks this brew should turn out to be really awesome. This one is definitely going to be brewed again!

I haven't had a blue moon for about 3.5 years so it's hard for me to compare taste. I bought a bottle of import belgian witbier here called hoegarden. It was pretty good, but the one-week sampler I had was better. Especially when you consider the price of the hoegarden: $4/12oz bottle!!

I made my own partial mash version of Biermuncher's recipe here:

Pale 2-row (GER): 900g (2 lb)
Wheat malt (GER): 900g (2 lb)
Wheat DME (60% wheat/40% barley): 1000g (2.2 lb) - 15 min
Crushed corriander seed: 0.75oz (21.3g) - 15 min
Bitter orange peel: 0.75oz (21.3g) - 15 min
East Kent Goldings (5% Alpha) 1oz (28.4g) - 60min
Safbrew WB-06 (1 packet re-hydrated)
Primary: 2 weeks @ 18C (~65F)
Secondary: NONE (I don't have one yet)

Mashed in with 5.2L (1.3gal) at 74C (165.2F) for 60 minutes
Sparged with 6L (1.6gal) at 82C (179.6) for 10 minutes
Added wort to 2L (~1/2 gallon) of boiling water
Total boil volume ~12.5L (~3.3 gallons)
Topped fermenter up to 20L (~5.25gal) with spring water


Notes/thoughts in hindsight:
- Racking to a secondary after a week would probably be a good idea
- Use a filter bag on the end of the racking cane to prevent clogging
- No problems substituting wheat malt for the flaked wheat.. Though I would like to try this recipe again with flaked wheat if it becomes available.
- Crushing the corriander better might improve spice flavor
- The WB-06 did a great job. I wish liquid yeast was availabe to try out.
- I wonder if the hydro sample was really orangey because it came mainly from the top of the fermenter? Most of the orange peel was floating on the top.

 

[BierMuncher]

Hey, just wanted to post an update. I let everything ferment (orange peel, corriander, and all) for two weeks in the primary. OG was spot on at 1.038 and final gravity was 1.010. When I tasted the hydro sample the bitter orange shock almost knocked my socks off. No hint of the corriander or any other flavors, probably becuase of the overpowering orange. Anyway, I was thinking that I was doomed and should have taken BierMuncher's advice to rack the beer off the orange peel into a secondary. Well, I guess that would be hard for me because I don't have a secondary (yet).

I bottled everything up with 3/4 cup of priming sugar, crossed my fingers, and hoped that the yeasties could work some magic. It's been conditioning for little over a week now at 16-17C (60-62F). I cracked one of my sampler bottles last night and it's great! The kick-me-in-the-face orange peel was gone and I could taste some of the spice from the corriander. Conditioning is far from finished, but I think with a couple more weeks this brew should turn out to be really awesome. This one is definitely going to be brewed again!

I haven't had a blue moon for about 3.5 years so it's hard for me to compare taste. I bought a bottle of import belgian witbier here called hoegarden. It was pretty good, but the one-week sampler I had was better. Especially when you consider the price of the hoegarden: $4/12oz bottle!!

I made my own partial mash version of Biermuncher's recipe here:

Pale 2-row (GER): 900g (2 lb)
Wheat malt (GER): 900g (2 lb)
Wheat DME (60% wheat/40% barley): 1000g (2.2 lb) - 15 min
Crushed corriander seed: 0.75oz (21.3g) - 15 min
Bitter orange peel: 0.75oz (21.3g) - 15 min
East Kent Goldings (5% Alpha) 1oz (28.4g) - 60min
Safbrew WB-06 (1 packet re-hydrated)
Primary: 2 weeks @ 18C (~65F)
Secondary: NONE (I don't have one yet)

Mashed in with 5.2L (1.3gal) at 74C (165.2F) for 60 minutes
Sparged with 6L (1.6gal) at 82C (179.6) for 10 minutes
Added wort to 2L (~1/2 gallon) of boiling water
Total boil volume ~12.5L (~3.3 gallons)
Topped fermenter up to 20L (~5.25gal) with spring water


Notes/thoughts in hindsight:
- Racking to a secondary after a week would probably be a good idea
- Use a filter bag on the end of the racking cane to prevent clogging
- No problems substituting wheat malt for the flaked wheat.. Though I would like to try this recipe again with flaked wheat if it becomes available.
- Crushing the corriander better might improve spice flavor
- The WB-06 did a great job. I wish liquid yeast was availabe to try out.
- I wonder if the hydro sample was really orangey because it came mainly from the top of the fermenter? Most of the orange peel was floating on the top.

Nice notes. Nice feedback. I am not a real fan of hoegaarden. A little too yeasty for me.

 

[MeetsCriteria]

Well, tomorrow is brew day for this beer. The yeast starter is "started" and can't wait to get this going. My first batch of SNPA clone (pretty similar to BierMuncher's, it turns out) is great! My wife was shocked, which is probably not all that uncommon of a response for homebrewers I suppose. I was sort of surprised just how good it was. Luckily, I can follow directions, and was super anal about-sanitation.

My hope is that I can have the same success with this batch as the last. Thanks again for posting this...it's been a real inspiration!

Speaking of inspiration, and as a somewhat related aside: Many may be familiar with Stone Brewing (local San Diego Brewery). I am a fan of their Vertical Epic series. One of the coolest things they have done (I think) is post the recipies for these beers! It is interesting that their first, the 2002 VE is VERY similar to this beer, albeit of much higher gravity. Their philosophy has inspired me, and will likely you as well!

Check it out:

Stone Vertical Epic Ale

More to follow as brew day develops!

Cheers,

Mike

Full Disclosure: I have no personal or professional interest in Stone Brewing (other than I like to drink their beer!)

 

[MeetsCriteria]

Well, what would brew day be without a mishap? I found my yeast starter had somehow rattled off the magnetic stirrer sometime between 0200 and 0530 this am. So, I lost 1/2 of my yeast. I decided that there was a low likely-hood of contamination, (foam stopper, sanitized) so made an emergency 8 oz "augmentation wort" to hopefully get the yeast count back up in time ready to pitch this afternoon...

I thought that might happen at 0200, when I found the magnetic stir-rod no longer spinning, apparently due to the increased viscosity of the slurry. I turned it up a tiny bit, sat it all on the floor and wedged the clothes hamper against it and the corner, thinking that if it did rattle off, it would stay upright at least. So, I managed to anticipate the mishap, but the steps I took to avert it were obviously not enough!

I decided to do a protein rest, since I added 8.3% raw oats, a maneuver which I felt was still in keeping with the style, and who knows may buy me a couple of points on the efficiency. I re-calculated last time and it was more like 65% I think...we'll see...30 minutes at 122 F. Given the yeast set back, the extra time is really no biggie...

More to follow...

Mike

 

[MeetsCriteria]

Well, today I am having to react on the fly. Goes to show you how adding steps can actually add an order of magnitude in degree of difficulty...

So, After my protein rest, I added 3 gal at 176 strike, and settled at 148 deg...

Not totally unhappy with that, as it will yield a different profile...

So, I may do a mini-decotion 1/2 through to bring it up into the more alpha range, and sort of have the two balance out.

Or, I could just roll with it as is...

Looks like I am getting further away from the recipe as I roll along here...

We'll see where it ends up!

Mike

 

[MeetsCriteria]

Well I made it...but the decoction really boosted my efficiency, and I ended up with a 5.5 gallons of 1.062 wort! So much for a session ale...

After resting at 148 deg for 30 minutes, I did a a decoction with 1 gallon of mash, and THEN hit 154 (a little lower than I expected). So, let that rest for 30 minutes, then did another decoction to mash out @ 169 F.

I never dreamed that would be the way the day went, but it did. They say necessity is the mother of all invention...I still need more practice...

Of course, these are the problems you WANT to have!

Cheers,

Mike

 

[MeetsCriteria]

Drained the trub today (there was almost none) from the conical. SG was 1.021 so we still have a little way to go. Bubbling every 4-6 seconds, so should be good...

It tasted good though! Young, but good. I wonder if I got so far from the original recipe that I'll have a different beer altogether...between adding the oats, the lower mash temp, the decoction, and the high OG I think all signs point towards a "yes".

I'll let you know in a couple a weeks when I rack it to keg...

Cheers,

Mike

 

[planenut]

Brewed this on 11/12/08, drinking now.

I had to make a variation as my lhbs didn't have the flaked wheat. Brewmaster there suggested some white wheat and some unmalted wheat as replacement. OG 1.053 FG 1.012

Marris Otter 4.5 lbs
white wheat 2.25
Unmalted wheat 2.25
flaked barley 2 0z
rice hulls 2 cups
East Kent Goldings 1 oz (60)
Whirfloc 1 tablet (10)
coriander .75 oz crushed and hydrated 5 minutes (5)
bitter orange peel .75 oz hydrated 5 mins (5)
sweet Orange Peel .25 oz hydrated 5 mins (5)
Belgian Witbeir 3944 Sep 08

It is wonderful. It might be a little too clear for a wit but I like it. Maybe it is the whirfloc or maybe the cold crashing.

Tasting notes: It is great with or w/out orange and almost has a hint of clove like a hoegarden.

Next time I will have to get the flaked wheat and compare.

I'll bet you would like to see a picture!
Thanks BM

 

[MeetsCriteria]

Looks great!

As for myself, I can't wait to get this baby in the keg. Smells great! This is as of last week, when I drained the trub and checked the SG. A beautiful beer for sure, and already demonstrating that awesome head BM has touted.

All I can say is, JACKPOT!

Cheers,

Mike

 

[MeetsCriteria]

FG was 1.012. Final ABV 6.6%. Higher attenuation and drier profile as predicted, based on the previous mentioned deviations throughout the recipe. Tastes is excellent, though I am sure one doesn't have to be a neurosurgeon to surmise that this is a different brew than the original recipe.

Amazing that the yeast attenuated out to this degree, given my previous mishap (or maybe not for all I know). I harvested a pint of slurry from the conical for the next time, so that'll cut cost a bit the next go around.

It's got a taste that I haven't had since being in Europe 12 years ago, which I didn't expect. Sort of like hearing an old song you haven't heard for a while that takes you back, without you actively even thinking about it. When I snapped out of the trance, I did a little Keanu Reeves, "Whoa..."

I'll post pics of the final product in a few days once carb'd. Again, thank you, and Merry Christmas!

Cheers,

Mike

PS. Next up, a Schwarzbier!

 

[MeetsCriteria]

I couldn't wait to post beer porn. It's still force carbing, so this was right out of the fermentor...don't think it could get any cloudier, which is the style of course! Great color, a bit lighter than the picture implies.

 

[GNBrews]

..........

 

[zanemoseley]

What do you think about some flaked oats in the PM recipe? I noticed that on Blue Moon's site they specificaally say it has oats in it so that's where I thought of it.

 

[truckmann]

Great Beer!

Here is the version I made and got sent to the BJCP COC competition. It gets judged on Sunday, hopefully it will do well.

16-A Witbier

Size: 10.2 gal
Efficiency: 68.0%
Attenuation: 77.0%
Calories: 165.29 kcal per 12.0 fl oz

Original Gravity: 1.050 (1.044 - 1.052)
Terminal Gravity: 1.011 (1.008 - 1.012)
Color: 3.82 (2.0 - 4.0)
Alcohol: 5.03% (4.5% - 5.5%)
Bitterness: 18.4 (10.0 - 20.0)

Ingredients:
10.25 lb Pale Ale Malt
10.25 lb German Wheat Malt Light
2.0 oz East Kent Goldings (5.0%) - added during boil, boiled 60.0 min
1.5 oz Corriander crushed - added during boil, boiled 5.0 min
1.5 oz Bitter Curacao/Bitter Orange (Peel) - added during boil, boiled 5.0 min
1.0 ea WYeast 3944 Belgian Witbier

00:05:00 Mash In - Liquor: 6.4 gal; Strike: 170.01 °F; Target: 154.0 °F
01:05:00 Saccharification Rest - Rest: 60.0 min; Final: 152.5 °F
02:05:00 Fly Sparge - Sparge Volume: 14.85 gal; Sparge Temperature: 190.0 °F; Runoff: 13.41 gal

 

[duuude]

That flaked wheat gave me a hell of time with my braid!

Adding a half pound of "rice hulls" will help keep your braid unstuck and won't affect the mash in any other way.

 

[Dougan]

has anybody tried a wheat beer yeast like wyeast 3638 on this? My LHBS is a bit slim on their selections of late and that's the most likely one I can find there. I also have some 1056 lying around in the fridge. Normally I'd make other arrangements, but I'm meaning to do this as my first "real" partial mash so I'm not expecting perfection. I'm more concerned with my efficiency here than making it taste perfect.... what would you guys think of 3638?

 

[BierMuncher]

has anybody tried a wheat beer yeast like wyeast 3638 on this? My LHBS is a bit slim on their selections of late and that's the most likely one I can find there. I also have some 1056 lying around in the fridge. Normally I'd make other arrangements, but I'm meaning to do this as my first "real" partial mash so I'm not expecting perfection. I'm more concerned with my efficiency here than making it taste perfect.... what would you guys think of 3638?

I thin it will work fine. I'll use safale-05 when I can't get m y hands on belgian wit yeast. I know the diff, but I brew this as much for company as anyone and they never know the difference.