My blow off stopped bubbling overnight when it somehow flipped out of the container I had it in. Before that I was getting one bubble every second, and the brew had a nice head of Krausen on it. Now I am not getting bubbles through the blow off - but when I look at the brew, there are still chunks of whatever floating from top down on one side, and from the bottom up on the other. It also still had some Krausen on top. Do I still have fermentation?
Blow off stopped bubbling
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Yes,you do. So stop worrying. No bubbles means exactly doodley squat.
Bubbling and fermetnation are NOT the same thing. airlocks and blowoffs are simply vents, valves to relieve the pressure and keep you from having beer on your ceiling. They are NOT magic fermentation gauges.
When the tube got knocked out of the water and was put back in, that is why it stopped.
Airlock activity is irrevelent. Just gravity points on a hydrometer.
Airlock bubbling (or lack) and fermentation are not the same thing. You have to separate that from your mindset. Airlock bubbling can be a sign of fermentation, but not a good one, because the airlock will often blip or not blip for various other reasons...so it is a tenuous connection at best.
Fermentation is not always "dynamic," just because you don't SEE anything happening, doesn't mean that any-thing's wrong,, and also doesn't mean that the yeast are still not working diligently away, doing what they've been doing for over 4,000 years.
That's why you need to take a gravity reading to know how your fermentation is going, NOT go by airlocks, or size of krausen, or a calendar, the horoscope or the phases of the moon (those things in my mind are equally accurate).
The most important tool you can use is a hydrometer. It's the only way you will truly know when your beer is ready...airlock bubbles and other things are faulty.
The only way to truly know what is going on in your fermenter is with your hydrometer. Like I said here in my blog, which I encourage you to read, Think evaluation before action you sure as HELL wouldn't want a doctor to start cutting on you unless he used the proper diagnostic instuments like x-rays first, right? You wouldn't want him to just take a look in your eyes briefly and say "I'm cutting into your chest first thing in the morning." You would want them to use the right diagnostic tools before the slice and dice, right? You'd cry malpractice, I would hope, if they didn't say they were sending you for an MRI and other things before going in....
We can't tell you whether or not you have fermentation, only gravity readings can.
When the tube got knocked out of the water and was put back in, that is why it stopped.
Airlock activity is irrevelent. Just gravity points on a hydrometer.
Airlock bubbling (or lack) and fermentation are not the same thing. You have to separate that from your mindset. Airlock bubbling can be a sign of fermentation, but not a good one, because the airlock will often blip or not blip for various other reasons...so it is a tenuous connection at best.
Fermentation is not always "dynamic," just because you don't SEE anything happening, doesn't mean that any-thing's wrong,, and also doesn't mean that the yeast are still not working diligently away, doing what they've been doing for over 4,000 years.
That's why you need to take a gravity reading to know how your fermentation is going, NOT go by airlocks, or size of krausen, or a calendar, the horoscope or the phases of the moon (those things in my mind are equally accurate).
The most important tool you can use is a hydrometer. It's the only way you will truly know when your beer is ready...airlock bubbles and other things are faulty.
The only way to truly know what is going on in your fermenter is with your hydrometer. Like I said here in my blog, which I encourage you to read, Think evaluation before action you sure as HELL wouldn't want a doctor to start cutting on you unless he used the proper diagnostic instuments like x-rays first, right? You wouldn't want him to just take a look in your eyes briefly and say "I'm cutting into your chest first thing in the morning." You would want them to use the right diagnostic tools before the slice and dice, right? You'd cry malpractice, I would hope, if they didn't say they were sending you for an MRI and other things before going in....
We can't tell you whether or not you have fermentation, only gravity readings can.
rewster452
Well-Known Member
The biggest concern I had when I started brewing was whether or not the beer was actually fermenting. In six years of brewing I have never, NOT ONCE, pitched a yeast and not had fermentation. If you're worried you have a stuck fermentation, don't. Unless you started at 1.100 or higher, you're borrowing trouble by worrying.
Hydrometer. Use it. Previous post was right on there. But don't go thieving your carboy every two days either. Just trust your yeast and do something else for a week or two. Like brew another beer.
Hydrometer. Use it. Previous post was right on there. But don't go thieving your carboy every two days either. Just trust your yeast and do something else for a week or two. Like brew another beer.
I don't actually agree with this (in general, that is -- the OP almost certainly does not have a stuck fermentation). I had a 1.086 beer that I severely underpitched (I learned about MrMalty's two days after that brewday, d'oh...) and I have been struggling with a stubborn fermentation ever since. It plateaued at about 1.046; I made a 1/2-gal starter and pitched that and got it quickly down to about 1.038, after which it stalled again; then I brought it to a warmer temp and roused the yeast, which it got down to about 1.030 after only a couple days, but over a week later it's only to 1.028 now, and I really would like to get at least a few more points. I have a similar (but lower grav) beer going right now that should be ready in another week or two, and if the damn stuck one isn't down to at least ~1.022-ish by then, I'm going to rack onto the yeast cake. If that doesn't do it, I'mma just bottle and deal with the fact that it's a little sweet-tasting.
This is all irrelevant to the OP's question, of course. The OP's fermentation sounds like it is coming along just fine.
With a blowoff hose especially, who freakin' knows what the bubbles mean? While I recognize airlocks are not reliable, I have found that with my setup, airlock activity and a hydrometer generally agree on what is happening with my beer; but with a hose, with such a larger diameter and so much more air to push out, it's basically just random.
Exactly!!!
Yeasts just don't "NOT WORK" these days. That's an old idea from 30 years ago, not the reality these days. Given enough time the yeast does what it needs to do.
Of god knows how many batches of beer I have made....I have never had fermentation not start, or a beer not turn out ok, and I have never ever ever had to add more yeast to a beer.
Except for infecting a starter due to poor sanitization, it really really is hard for yeast NOT to do what they do naturally.
Yeast just don't not work anymore, that is an idea that came from the bad old days before homebrewing was legalized in 1978 when yeast came in hard cakes that travelled in hot cargo holds of ships ...And then sat under the lid of blue ribbon malt extract for god knows how long on grocery stores shelves.
But since 1978 yeast science has been ongoing and the yeasts of today, wet OR dry are going to work in 99.9% of the situations we have, if you give them the time to do so.
But every noob who starts an "my yeast is dead thread" just really pertpetuates a fear that has come from way back then, they got it from Papazain and other brew books written Thirty or more years ago, and were told horror stories of those yeasts, and it influenced their writing, which influence nervous noob brewers as well. AND he influenced Palmer and other book writers, who passed that yeast doubt onto generations of brewers.
And then, most of the time, you new brewers then freak each other out!!!! You see an "infection" or "Not fermenting" thread title, or 10 on a given day
and most of you don't even read the story behind it...you just see a dozen yeast is f-d up threads...and then believe my yeast has the potential to be f-d up.But as the guy who answers those questions on a daily basis and finds out that no hydro reading was taken, nor has it been 72 hours, and THEY (not you) ARE going by airlock bubbling- AND when they do take a hydro reading or pop the bucket lid, they see that there was a krausen....and most of the time they actually post back, to say they were being paranoid, and fermentation DID happen.
But to someone who actually doesn't follow up on those threads, they think that yeast is so damn fragile....when it is the brewer's nerves that are.
Yeast handling and growing is a science, AND a BUSINESS, EVEN DRY YEAST GANG, they are all grown in labs, not fly by night operations (that's why the whole argument about dry being sub-par to liquid is really idiotic). A company's reputation is at stake. They're not going to sell crap.
You just gotta have faith.
That's why you need to take a gravity reading to know how your fermentation is going, NOT go by airlocks, or size of krausen, or a calendar, the horoscope or the phases of the moon (those things in my mind are equally accurate).
I dunno Revvy... If I pitch on a new moon and bottle on the last quarter (waning quarter) moon fermentation is pretty much done (unless there's a lunar eclipse then I have to wait another lunar cycle)....
seriously though. Revvy is 1000% correct. Only the hydrometer can tell you if fermentation is done. Airlock activity can be used as an indication of gasses being released and that's all.
But that's only good during leap years, when there's a 6th Tuesday in a month, or that one day of the year when pigs fly. Those kinds of exceptions to the laws of brewing shouldn't be taken as gospel for the newbs. :fro:
rewster452
Well-Known Member
Hmm. I suppose if you underpitch you could have a stuck fermentation at any gravity. But why the hell would you do that?
JK. You're right. There are other factors besides gravity. Good point.
But ASSUMING you pitched a competent starter, you can pretty much walk away from it. When I brewed a Barleywine at 1.134 I had a MONSTER of a starter of 1056, and as per the plan, it stalled at 1.040. I had underestimated how difficult it would be to get it going again, however, and may be stuck with a sweet barleywine. Thank god for dry hopping (which was not invented by Sam Adams, no matter what the commercial says).
As to your conundrum, 1.086 is still pretty high, and from what I learned from my barleywine, I can tell you that its really difficult to get it active once its stuck. I even used champagne yeast. But mine IS fermenting. Just very, very, very slowly. And a good rousing isn't a terrible idea.
JK. You're right. There are other factors besides gravity. Good point.
But ASSUMING you pitched a competent starter, you can pretty much walk away from it. When I brewed a Barleywine at 1.134 I had a MONSTER of a starter of 1056, and as per the plan, it stalled at 1.040. I had underestimated how difficult it would be to get it going again, however, and may be stuck with a sweet barleywine. Thank god for dry hopping (which was not invented by Sam Adams, no matter what the commercial says).
As to your conundrum, 1.086 is still pretty high, and from what I learned from my barleywine, I can tell you that its really difficult to get it active once its stuck. I even used champagne yeast. But mine IS fermenting. Just very, very, very slowly. And a good rousing isn't a terrible idea.
Yes. All of me other beers have been much lower (I think one was 1.069, but most have been around 1.050-1.060) and I have never had even the slightest problem (edit: with a healthy fermentation that is; I've messed them up in other ways!
) -- even though a couple might have been slightly "underpitched" by MrMalty standards. The closest thing is I did have an IPA that FG'd at 1.020, which was maybe 5 points higher than I was targeting, but it didn't taste sweet so I went ahead and bottled, and it's my best beer yet!For <1.060, you just simply aren't going to have a stuck fermentation unless something is SERIOUSLY wrong. Like if your yeast died during shipping (rare, but it does happen) or if you try and ferment an ale yeast at 45F, or you pitched right into boiling wort or something crazy like that.
rewster452
Well-Known Member
BTW, I've been on hbt for some time now, and revvy doesn't talk to hear his teeth chatter. Dude knows his stuff. Listen and be learned.
rewster452
Well-Known Member
For <1.060, you just simply aren't going to have a stuck fermentation unless something is SERIOUSLY wrong. Like if your yeast died during shipping (rare, but it does happen) or if you try and ferment an ale yeast at 45F, or you pitched right into boiling wort or something crazy like that.
Yup.
rewster452
Well-Known Member
But an ale yeast will still ferment at 45F. Just reeeaaaal frickin slowly.
You think so? I was under the impression most ale yeasts would floc at about 50F and fermentation would basically stop...
Man, yeast are resilient (and capricious!) little beasties I guess.
rewster452
Well-Known Member
You think so? I was under the impression most ale yeasts would floc at about 50F and fermentation would basically stop...
Man, yeast are resilient (and capricious!) little beasties I guess.
I've never tried it, and I may be extrapolating, but I believe ale yeast and lager yeast are both related to, and similar to bread yeast. I make pizza for a living, and the dough I make inflates like mad at 65f, but still works at 36f, just slowly. Now, I don't want to misinform anyone, so if I am just pulling this out of my ass, (and I kinda feel like I might be) correct me, please.
I guess I'm in need of some clarification.
Everyone is saying that bubbles don't mean much, but to me, it seems they would be a great way to see if fermentation is underway. My understanding was that fermentation yielded EtOH and Co2. The Co2 would bubble out, causing pressure, and then cause bubbling in your airlock/blow-off. Am I wrong in thinking this?
Everyone is saying that bubbles don't mean much, but to me, it seems they would be a great way to see if fermentation is underway. My understanding was that fermentation yielded EtOH and Co2. The Co2 would bubble out, causing pressure, and then cause bubbling in your airlock/blow-off. Am I wrong in thinking this?
Yes, but.
If there is fermentation, there is CO2 being produced; and if your airlock/blowoff hose is bubbling rapidly, there is CO2 being produced; but it is NOT true that if there is CO2 being produced, your airlock/blowoff hose must bubble.
The most common explanation given is that the air may have found some other way to escape. If you are fermenting in a bucket, this is incredibly common, as the lids generally do not seal perfectly. They seal well enough to keep nasties out, but if there is even the tiniest pinprick for air to escape, it will go that way instead of bubbling through the airlock.
After fermentation is mostly done, you could still get some slow bubbling from CO2 that is already in solution being slowly released.
The point is, the amount of CO2 coming out of your airlock does not necessarily correlate with the amount of CO2 being produced. A hydrometer reading is the only way to confirm fermentation for sure.
In your specific case, there was a column of CO2 under pressure in your blowoff hose, and when it fell out of the bucket, that pressure was released and became approximately equal to the pressure in your house. Depending on what volume of air is in your blowoff hose, it could take some time for that pressure to build back up enough to force a bubble out.
Or it could be as simple as that in messing with the hose, you managed to create the teeeeeensiest air leak. Which is nothing to worry about, really. But it could be that the CO2 is escaping another way now.
Fermentation is not going to stop because your hose fell out of the bucket, hahaha... and you say there is still kraeusen, and you can still see visible activity in the beer itself. It's definitely still fermenting, no question. RDWHAHB!
Or it could be as simple as that in messing with the hose, you managed to create the teeeeeensiest air leak. Which is nothing to worry about, really. But it could be that the CO2 is escaping another way now.
Fermentation is not going to stop because your hose fell out of the bucket, hahaha... and you say there is still kraeusen, and you can still see visible activity in the beer itself. It's definitely still fermenting, no question. RDWHAHB!
rewster452
Well-Known Member
Bubbles will also occur from temperature changes. As the gas in your headspace heats it expands, pushing through the airlock. Conversely, a long, slow fermentation will bubble so infrequently as to be unobserveable.
A very active fermentation is unmistakable, and will bubble madly, but as in all things in life, there are subtleties.
A beer may ferment perfectly fine without a single blip in the airlock. Or airlocks can start or stop or start and stop again, for a ton of other reasons, like temp changes, getting nudged by the cat or the vacuum cleaner, changes in barometric pressure, but your beer could still be fermenting fine.
Or the co2 is coming out the lid, or the grommet or the stopper. Nothing wrong with that, if co2 is getting out, nothing nasty is getting in.
Besides airlocks tell you the WHAT is happening, that co2 is or isn't getting out of the fermenter....but they aren't telling you the WHY. If it's fermenting or not, or off gassing or not. If it's done or not....
I've said it over and over and trolls like to try to get me, or even accuse me of lying (which I don't get why I would lie about something like this) but over the years of LOTS of batches of ALL SIZES and BOTH carboys and buckets, better bottles or glass, carboy caps or bungs, new buckets old buckets, s-types and 3 piece, I get about 50% airlock failure rate (but 100% success rate of fermentation) and it's any number if things, usually simply a non tight seal in the bucket or carboy or grommet....but to me the reason doesn't matter....the point is just trying to glance at an airlock and know what the beer is doing, just is NOT accurate.
My belief is that 1 occurrance is an anamoly, 2 may be a coincidence, BUT 3 or more occurance is an epidemic...and that's the case for folks relying on airlocks all the time, to me if 1 brewer comes on saying his airlock is not bubbling, AND he takes a reading and finds fermentation is going fine, that's an anamoly...
But DAILY on here there are at least 10 threads stating the exact thing...so MAYBE there is something to this idea that airlocks can be faulty. AND if they have the potential to be faulty, then how can we trust them to tell us what's going on?
You can quibble about it all you want, or deal in semantics, but we deal in sheer volume of users on here, and daily we have airlocks not bubbling, and many of them where a gravity reading indicates that fermentation is happening beautifully.
And yes, in an IDEAL situation (like let's say fermenting in a keg with a tight seal and no leak from around the airlock) the airlock SHOULD bubble 100% of the time (providing there's not too much headspace.) If more co2 is created than can be contained in the spavce of the fermenter, THEN an airlock should bubble....because an airlock is a valve.
But MOST of us don't have IDEAL situations, and rarely is a plastic or glass fermenter airtight- it really isn't supposed to be anyway...SO we aren't in the best situation to have IDEAL 100% accuracy of an airlock...
So that's why it's a good idea NOT to relie on or stress out about what it is or isn't doing. Just realize that airlocks bubble or they don't, they start, they stop, they bubble fast, they bubble slow, and they bubble or don't whether fermentation happens or not.
Like I said, the only accurate thing that will tell you what your beer is or isn't doing, is taking gravity readings.
The only caveat I would have with what Revvy said is that as you get to know your setup, you might find there are certain things you can take a good guess at. I always get bubbles in my airlock for example -- but not always with a blowoff hose. Other folks never get bubbles in their airlock, so don't worry about that in the slightest. I've also learned with my setup, the airlocks never stop bubbling, even after fermentation is complete, so I can only know if it is done with a hydrometer. (I think it's so airtight that CO2 in solution continues to slowly percolate out for weeks)
Get to know your setup, but 1) remember that everyone's setup behaves differently, often in ways that we can't possibly predict and sometimes can't even explain; and 2) remember that even if you find certain indicators are fairly reliable with your setup, anything other than a hydrometer reading is a shortcut and should not be relied upon as truth. My airlock activity has been consistent enough that I rely on it to tell me when to take a hydrometer reading, but I don't rely on it for anything beyond that.
Get to know your setup, but 1) remember that everyone's setup behaves differently, often in ways that we can't possibly predict and sometimes can't even explain; and 2) remember that even if you find certain indicators are fairly reliable with your setup, anything other than a hydrometer reading is a shortcut and should not be relied upon as truth. My airlock activity has been consistent enough that I rely on it to tell me when to take a hydrometer reading, but I don't rely on it for anything beyond that.
For example, LAGERS. They don't tend to bubble that much, especially in the cold. Everything moves slower. It doesn't mean anything's wrong. Just that the co2 isn't expanding as much as a room temp ale would.
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The fact that airlocks can bubble is the worst thing to ever happen to home brewing. When in doubt about, think back to the monks who started brewing. Try to imagine a monk panicking...
...Would never happen! Take a lesson from our elders, relax and have a homebrew.
...Would never happen! Take a lesson from our elders, relax and have a homebrew.
when I used to make wines a few decades ago,they'd make that airlock percolate steadily. I'd be half asleep in front of the TV,thinkin I was hearing a coffee commercial. Not so with our ales. That hydrometer knows the subtleties.
