blonde....too bitter or astringent

[captainL]

So I have been drinking my recent blonde. It is either too bitter or I some how extracted a bit of tannins?

I BIAB with RO water adjusted with salts to a calculated Ph of 5.5. The only thing I can think of is I may have left the grain in a little too long during the mash out or my recipe is to blame.

Og was 1.042

60 minute addition was .5 centennial %8.7 for 15.5 IBU contribution.

Looking around other recipes I am seeing closer to 10 ibus for the 60 minute addition.

I also FWH with hallertauer (%3.8) .25 oz. I'm thinking I didn't let the hops sit in the mash before the boil. Off the top of my head they only got about 15 minutes of soaking.

This blonde was designed to have a bit of malt backbone. 1.5 lbs munich, .5 crys 10, .5 carapils. so I am surprised by the lack of malt character. It just seems overly bitter bordering on astringent.

I also have it carbonated maybe a little high at 2.6 to 2.8 in my keg?? Are there any tricks for using finings to remove tannins that works well without damaging the beer?

Ideas??

thanks.

 

[bottlebomber]

How sure are you on the PH? Grain astringency is very different from hop bitterness, and not the least bit pleasant.

 

[wilserbrewer]

How old is the beer? Over carbonation will bring out an unpleasant taste in young beers IME. Let it sit and reduce carbonation, you may very well be pleasantly surprised.

 

[captainL]

I'm sure the ph was calculated correctly. Of course the RO unit at the local grocery store could have been all screwed up or the grain didn't act as expected. I don't currently have the ability to test ph. ph meter his definitely on my to get list. I made a brew once with local water that FOR SURE had a lot of astringency. that was before I got a water report and started using water chemistry, over a year ago. While this isn't quite as bad.....I can't help but relate the flavor.

 

[captainL]

It has probably been about 6 or 7 weeks since brew date? Carbonation could be part of it for sure?

 

[zakleeright]

Not squeezing the grain bag, true? I hear that squeezing the bag can release tannins that cause an unpleasant bitterness

 

[bottlebomber]

Not squeezing the grain bag, true? I hear that squeezing the bag can release tannins that cause an unpleasant bitterness

Unless you have superhuman strength to compress the tannins out of the hunks, I'm calling BS on this one. Tannin extraction is caused by a ph problem. If it was that easy to extract them they would come out in the mash.

 

[LKABrewer]

What salts did you add to the water?

 

[zakleeright]

Unless you have superhuman strength to compress the tannins out of the hunks, I'm calling BS on this one. Tannin extraction is caused by a ph problem. If it was that easy to extract them they would come out in the mash.

BS? What can I say, I'm a consultant!
But yea, what you're saying makes sense - I just heard that from a couple of sources here that seemed knowledgeable. The one time I did BIAB I got good efficiency without having to squeeze...then went crazy, built a 25-gallon electric system and never did BIAB again.
Cheers

 

[captainL]

I actually didn't squeeze this one. I normally do. I just let this one drip into the wort, suspended about a foot above the wort while it was warming up to a boil. I'm wondering if the heat coming off the kettle while it dripped did it. The bag absorbed considerable heat. But then again tannins are more a factor of ph.....I added 6 grams calcium chloride, 2 grams gypsum to 7.75 gallons ro water. Full volume mash. 7 lbs two row, 1.5 Munich, .5 c10, .t carapils.

I've had the co2 set to 14 PSI, reading 39 f. I backed it off to 12 psi. Im considering dry hoping in the keg if it doesn't get better with decreased carb.

 

[bottlebomber]

I've had the co2 set to 14 PSI, reading 39 f. I backed it off to 12 psi. Im considering dry hoping in the keg if it doesn't get better with decreased carb.

What is that going to do for it? It seems like it would be throwing good money after bad..

 

[captainL]

Well, the beer is currently all bitterness, no malt flav, and little hop flavor or aroma. I'm thinking .5 to one ounce hop flavor/ aroma to make it a pseudo light ipa. Really what's $ 2 in hops? Maybe a small boil and dry hop addition.

 

[captainL]

So it just hit me as I was looking through my phone pics from that brew. O had a lot of these white things floating and I scooped some up and tasted them and they where very tannic. Bad malting job? Anyone ever see that much in their mash and is it known to leave behind tannins or off flavors?

 

[bottlebomber]

So it just hit me as I was looking through my phone pics from that brew. O had a lot of these white things floating and I scooped some up and tasted them and they where very tannic. Bad malting job? Anyone ever see that much in their mash and is it known to leave behind tannins or off flavors?

It's just sprouts... I see those all the time. They usually float up to the top.

 

[captainL]

I usually see "some" rootlets/sprouts but this time I saw a LOT. Enough that I took pictures of it and tasted them. In hind site, I should have removed them. They had a bitter astringent flavor that is very similar to the flavor in the beer. I have a very high suspicion that this is the root(pun ) of my problem.
Anyhow, I'll ask my LBH guy if anyone else had problems with the malt around that time.

 

[mabrungard]

I'm sure the ph was calculated correctly. Of course the RO unit at the local grocery store could have been all screwed up or the grain didn't act as expected. I don't currently have the ability to test ph. ph meter his definitely on my to get list. I made a brew once with local water that FOR SURE had a lot of astringency. that was before I got a water report and started using water chemistry, over a year ago. While this isn't quite as bad.....I can't help but relate the flavor.

If your area's water supply has high alkalinity and you obtained your water from the vending machine, then its possible that the water was not as pure as desired and the mash pH was high. If you intend to continue buying water from the vending machine, get a TDS meter so that you can check that the machine is giving you low ion water. The meters are cheap. That would be an easier buy than a pH meter.

 

[bigdongsr94]

I finally bought a pH meter. It was not much over $30 and I felt dumb i waited so long. http://www.amazon.com/Hanna-Instruments-98103B-Replaceable-Electrode/dp/B003IKNJPW

 

[stamandster]

Did you calculate for PH after collecting wort before boiling? (I guess not after seeing you didn't have a PH tester yet ) So how did you calculate your PH to account for the grain changing the PH?

 

[fxdude]

I've actually had my blonde get a little bitter when my ferm temps got a little high

 

[captainL]

Good idea on the TDS tests, but I think a ph meter is in my near future seeming how I starting to play around more with country wines and meads.

Thanks for the amazon link, I need to do some research.

Ez water 3.0 and brew'n water do a pretty darn good job at predicting the ph changes from the grain...

To update. The carbonation has noticeably decreased. It seams to have gotten better. the astringency flavor taste seems to have decreased. I'm kind of back to thinking I just over bittered it or just got a little tannins. Maybe the FWH didn't simmer long enough before being boiled, I may have rushed it...no sparge and all. Who knows but I'm giving up and moving on. Planning a Kolsch next week.

Thanks for the help everyone.