BLING BLING Electric HERMS Conversion

[illin8]

Yeah 100%...I figured that much but wanted to be sure. From that outlet out to the element you used a three-prong cord and receptacle...and you used a four-prong cord coming INTO your control panel, right?

And there are two inputs to the SSR from the PID? I thought it was only one?

 

[The Pol]

Yeah 100%...I figured that much but wanted to be sure. From that outlet out to the element you used a three-prong cord and receptacle...and you used a four-prong cord coming INTO your control panel, right?

And there are two inputs to the SSR from the PID? I thought it was only one?

Yes, 4 prong coming IN for the 2 hots, 1 neutral and one ground. The outlet to the element is three prong because there are 2 hots and one ground only.

The SSR does have TWO inputs from the PID to the SSR. One is + and one -

 

[illin8]

Cool...I take it those inputs don't come wired with the PID, what size type wire did you use?

 

[The Pol]

Cool...I take it those inputs don't come wired with the PID, what size type wire did you use?

Those do not come pre-wired...

I wired the box according to the amp loads that were to be expected on the equipment that it fed, I DO beleive that the PID to SSR wiring is 14 or 16GA wire, this is a pretty weak signal.

 

[illin8]

Nice to know...thanks man.

 

[The Pol]

Nice to know...thanks man.

No problem... it is good stuff, thanks for the opportunity to help.

 

[illin8]

Here's another thought, could I put a 30A DPST switch in BEFORE the distribution block/grounding bar, wired only by the 2 hots and ground (no neutral) to turn power on/off for the entire system? The neutral coming from the panel/receptacle would essentially bypass the switch and go right to the distribution block. I just wonder if this messes with the GFCI protection at all...

 

[The Pol]

Here's another thought, could I put a 30A DPST switch in BEFORE the distribution block/grounding bar, wired only by the 2 hots and ground (no neutral) to turn power on/off for the entire system? The neutral coming from the panel/receptacle would essentially bypass the switch and go right to the distribution block. I just wonder if this messes with the GFCI protection at all...

Here is a thought though... If you place the switch on the ELEMENT alone, then you can sttill read the temps on the PID when the element is off.

 

[brrman]

awesome - thanks for that!

 

[conpewter]

Mine is basically just for the element (plug for my elements). I unplug the whole system at the end of the day from the wall outlet.

 

[The Pol]

awesome - thanks for that!

I used to use my PID to monitor my BK temps when chilling, back when I chilled. Cutting the power to the element while leaving the PID live is really handy.

 

[brrman]

I used to use my PID to monitor my BK temps when chilling, back when I chilled. Cutting the power to the element while leaving the PID live is really handy.

Yeah i still intend to chill so this is what I will be doing also. Although it would be nice to have a master power switch instead of pulling the plug to kill all power.

 

[brrman]

ok, Rob - another question. How exactly did mount the HLT element in the cooler? Looks like you did it differently than what you did with the keggle.

Did you need to reinforce the bottom of the cooler somehow? Because It looks like it will be too flimsy to hold up element - especially after it gets warm. Looks like you used a larger pvc coupling here than the 1"?

 

[The Pol]

You need to reinforce the inner liner... you can do this by using a 2" PVC CAP... the flat one, not the rounded ones... and using an epoxy to secure that to the inner liner, but of course from the OUTside.

First drill a hole through the cap to accomodate the element

Then drill the holes in the cooler to accomodate the element through the inner liner, and the PVC reinforcement through the OUTER shell and the insulation.

Line up the holes in the cap and the inner liner and epoxy that sucker. You may want to rough up the surface of the liner and the cap a little, but I have found that JB WELD, which DOES NOT SHRINK, works really well.

Once that is adhered you CAN use the seal that comes with the element, or better yet a nice tight fitting silicone O ring on the ELEMENT side and a SS straight thread nut on the INSIDE to tighten it.

The inner liner is flimsy and will flex and move when heated and under water. this reinforcement will create a SOLID, non flexing surface for the seal to seat to.

 

[brrman]

Kinda funny - I was just coming back to post about perhaps using a pvc end cap. LOL.. thanks man.

 

[illin8]

Here is a thought though... If you place the switch on the ELEMENT alone, then you can sttill read the temps on the PID when the element is off.

Well, I plan to have another switch AFTER the distribution block for the element itself too, so I'll still be able to use the pumps and monitor temps via PID when the element is off. For some reason, I feel more comfortable with having a switch where the power comes INTO the panel too without having to worry about getting over to the receptacle and pulling a big plug in case something 'undesirable' happens. Maybe unnecessary, but what is it $8 for a switch and piece of mind?

 

[The Pol]

Cool cool guys, build on!

 

[brrman]

well, silicone hose, march pump and false bottom are ordered from AHS. I tried ordering all my fittings from BargainFittings but Paypal keeps erroring out... no idea what the deal there is.

 

[conpewter]

Well, I plan to have another switch AFTER the distribution block for the element itself too, so I'll still be able to use the pumps and monitor temps via PID when the element is off. For some reason, I feel more comfortable with having a switch where the power comes INTO the panel too without having to worry about getting over to the receptacle and pulling a big plug in case something 'undesirable' happens. Maybe unnecessary, but what is it $8 for a switch and piece of mind?

Sounds good! Make sure to have either a GFCI circuit breaker or some sort of GFCI inline to your brew-stand.

 

[scoots]

Grrr.

I think I already know the answer to this question, but need to know for sure. I am having one heck of a time trying to find a 30A 2 pole GFCI breaker for siemens box. No one around seems to carry that load breaker. I have found 50A ones, but think it would not be a great idea to install that. Am I right? According to Pol, I only require 23A to boil with this system. Anyone know where I could get the 30A if the 50A will not work?

 

[brrman]

The 50a will work - the breaker will be more expensive though and is kinda overkill. But I'm pretty sure all the breaker does is limit how much amperage can be pulled before it triggers - it does not "push" power to the receptacle, your system will still only "pull" as much power as it needs.

Much the same thing as wiring a 15a plug on a 20a line. Completely safe and code-legal. (20a plug on 15a line is NOT code-legal).

 

[conpewter]

You should go with a 30 amp GFCI if you can find it.

I bought a cord that had an inline 30 amp GFCI so that I didn't have to buy the breaker (which was around $100).

 

[conpewter]

Yikes!
Radford Brothers Industrial Supply Circuit Breaker 2Pole 30A BL GFCI 10kA

pricey. The seller doesn't seem to still be selling the cords that Kal and I use.

Maybe install a subpanel for the brew-rig, then you can switch to a SquareD box, they have 30 amp breakers cheaper.

 

[conpewter]

Ok after some searching I found a cord that might work for you

Electric, Cord "GFCI" 6' 30a/240v F/L

The one I got on ebay was longer, and cost less. I will PM you his email addy if you want it.

Edit: Found it! He's still selling them. I offered him $70 and he accepted it
http://cgi.ebay.com/30A-Ground-Fault-Interrupt-Plug-GFI-CordCable-FREE-SHIP_W0QQitemZ110302613578QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBI_Electrical_Equipment_Tools?hash=item19ae8c504a&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318|301%3A0|293%3A1|294%3A50

Very beefy cord. I have picture in my electric setup thread.

 

[scoots]

So then I can install any 30A breaker on the circuit and then use the gfci cord? That would be awesome (and much cheaper)

 

[conpewter]

So then I can install any 30A breaker on the circuit and then use the gfci cord? That would be awesome (and much cheaper)

That's what I did, plus if I ever move in the future the whole thing goes with me, the regular (cheap) breaker stays as does the outlet, the relatively expensive GFCI cord goes with me.

 

[illin8]

I was reading the PID manual from Auber the other day and noticed it mention installing a slow blow fuse to protect the PID...anyone do this? what did you use?

 

[brrman]

I remember reading that but have not decided if I am going to do it or not. It says to add a fuse "if needed"... do we need it? I dunno.

 

[brewjunky]

I have not used a fuse for mine and its been fine for 2 years now.

 

[diatonic]

I put one inline with power on mine... figured it was a $1 insurance policy on my PID if it pulls too much power.

EDIT: Pics of my control box here.