BLING BLING Electric HERMS Conversion

[The Pol]

Just ordered this today...

PID, SSR, Heatsink, K thermocouple

http://auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=3
http://auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2&products_id=30
http://auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2&products_id=77

I actually ordered the WRONG PID... I ordered the identical one that had a RELAY only output, not SSR. The dude called me THREE MINUTES after I placed my order to verify it, because he saw I was ordering an SSR as well... DAMN! AWESOME PLACE!

 

[LooyvilleLarry]

Yeah, You'll probably have those on Monday. Hmmm...seems like a Christmas Project in the making

 

[The Pol]

Unfortunately I am leaving tomorrow for 4 days... then I am home for (2)... then I leave again for 4 more. Not much time here in Dec. to start piecing things together, but I will be for certain in January. I am ordering the distribution block this week as well. I can pick up my 12 x 12 x 6 junction box for the controls at Lowes down the street. Then all I have to do is piece it together with a parts/supplier/cost brreakdown and provide plenty of pics.

I am excited, I cannot wait to brew on this thing in Feb!

 

[The Pol]

Updated the OP with a COMPLETE parts list, prices, vendors... all parts are here or on order now, I will begin the build when the element arrives!

 

[Stile]

$417.00???? / 80 = MORE FLYING NOW!

There has to be a time after all the monthly expenses are paid and you say..... This flight just paid for my new controller

 

[The Pol]

I am flying 43 hours in the next two weeks... it is covered

 

[kal]

Thanks a million for putting this together Pol! It really is appreciated. You've done a ton of research into this. My Blichmann pots just arrived yesterday so I'll be drilling into them soon to convert to electric and will be following these discussions closely.

Kal

 

[The Pol]

No problem... I am trying, putting more time into research and documentation than I am BUILDING it.

 

[Gregredic]

$417.00???? / 80 = MORE FLYING NOW!

There has to be a time after all the monthly expenses are paid and you say..... This flight just paid for my new controller

What do you mean $417? I calculated his parts cost up from the OP as $43.21.

 

[The Pol]

Re-read the OP... that was the cost for the FIRST PHASE. That is from the BK only... the control panel gets a little pricey! FULL parts list is up now!

 

[Gregredic]

Pol....I dont see anything in the OP about the price of the control panel. Are you talking about the post that thread that was 240+ posts long?

 

[Gregredic]

Im sorry...I see what you're saying now. You are talking about the parts from post 31.



Sorry about that guys...looks like my browser was caching the first page. It didn't show the parts list until after I went to another computer.

 

[The Pol]

No, the OP has a huge parts list showing... it consists of ALL the parts, prices, suppliers... even down to the #10 wire!

 

[The Pol]

PID, SSR, Thermocouple and Heatsink arrived today.

The "stuff"

THANKS AUBER!

 

[kal]

Nice Pol!

Some questions:

Why this thermocouple and not the more expensive ones with disconnects, longer probes?

Why not 2 SSR's (one for each phase) or one SSRD (two SSR's in one).

Just curious!

Kal

 

[The Pol]

This probe was about $25 less than a probe with a disconnect. I will mount it with a seal and a SS 1/4-20 wing nut inside the keggle so that I can remove it easily to clean the keggle.

Probe length... not really a necessity since it is merely going into the boil kettle. 1/4" long or 3"... it will work the same. Plus it will not get in the way of my chiller coil, heating element, etc. in the keggle already.

(2) SSRs are not needed, nor is an SSRD. The (2) hot legs to the element will be on a switch... so that regardless of what the PID commands, I can turn off the element completely.

When I power on my panel, the PID will be powered... the BK switch will be OFF, keeping the BK element OFF regardless of the PID command. When I choose to heat the BK I will turn the switch on and the PID will have control of the element in the BK.

When the boil is complete I can turn off the BK element switch, turning off the element, the PID will continue to be powered and will indicate wort temp during the chilling process in the keggle.

 

[Stile]

This probe was about $25 less than a probe with a disconnect. I will mount it with a seal and a SS 1/4-20 wing nut inside the keggle so that I can remove it easily to clean the keggle.

Probe length... not really a necessity since it is merely going into the boil kettle. 1/4" long or 3"... it will work the same. Plus it will not get in the way of my chiller coil, heating element, etc. in the keggle already.

(2) SSRs are not needed, nor is an SSRD. The (2) hot legs to the element will be on a switch... so that regardless of what the PID commands, I can turn off the element completely.

When I power on my panel, the PID will be powered... the BK switch will be OFF, keeping the BK element OFF regardless of the PID command. When I choose to heat the BK I will turn the switch on and the PID will have control of the element in the BK.

When the boil is complete I can turn off the BK element switch, turning off the element, the PID will continue to be powered and will indicate wort temp during the chilling process in the keggle.

Are we making beer or going back to the moon????

 

[The Pol]

Making beer on the way to the moon perhaps

 

[slimer]

What a big heat sink you have...

 

[The Pol]

Yeah, no kidding!

The heatsink will be mounted OUTSIDE the control box, the SSR inside the box... this will allow room in the box for my other components as well as allowing air flow around the heat sink. Stay tuned to see how I accomplish this!

I also picked up my 8"x8"x4" junction box today (not 12x12x6) for the control panel. It will be smaller, more concise, cleaner. I also grabbed a couple SS wing nuts and a couple small rubber seals (to be added to my parts list in the OP) to install my removable temp probe.

I will be installing this today, I will get some pics and a tutorial up this evening when I am finished.

POL

 

[The Pol]

Installed my "K" type thermowell today!!

Parts:
1/4-20 SS wing nut Lowes $1.21
3/16” x 1/2” x 1/16” Rubber Washer Lowes $0.92
K type thermo couple TC-K6 Auber Inst. $6.85


Tools:
TiN Coated Step Drill
JB Stik Harbor Freight $4.99


Instructions:

Cut a VERY small portion of the JB Stik off and knead it very well. I did this by rolling it into a skinny rope, doubling it over, and rolling again (repeatedly). CAUTION, this stuff sets in about 5 minutes, so don't mess around.

Take a small narrow "rope" of the JB Stik and wrap it around the loose center portion of the thermocouple. This is on the head of the thermocouple screw where the loose center probe portion goes into the thermocouple screw. This will make it water tight within minutes.

Now, take your step drill and drill a 1/4" hole about an inch above the lower keg weld for the thermocouple insertion. Use the step drill to nicely deburr the hole on the inside and outside of the keggle.

Place (1) 3/16” x 1/2” x 1/16” Rubber Washer over the end of the thermocouple screw. Insert said screw into hole and tighten from the inside with (1) 1/4-20 wing nut.

Your thermocouple insertion is complete, and can be removed easily to move or clean your keggle.

 

[The Pol]

 

[The Pol]

Beginnings of a control panel (guts)

 

[IrregularPulse]

Looking good Pol, It will be nice to finaly have someone to just completely copy off of instead of trying to think.
are you concerned with getting an accurate reading of the total wort volume with the probe that close to the bottome of the kettle?

 

[The Pol]

No worries.

I think the temp of boiling wort will be pretty homogenous.

I went with a short thermocouple so that it will not interfere with my chiller, dip tube or heating element in the kettle.

I positioned it low because I brew 5 gallon batches primarily, and did not want it up out of the wort.

The heating element will be placed through the wall a couple inches above the thermocouple.

 

[Spine]

When I power on my panel, the PID will be powered... the BK switch will be OFF, keeping the BK element OFF regardless of the PID command. When I choose to heat the BK I will turn the switch on and the PID will have control of the element in the BK.

When the boil is complete I can turn off the BK element switch, turning off the element, the PID will continue to be powered and will indicate wort temp during the chilling process in the keggle.

Just a quick suggestion: You will want to make sure that if you are using Integral control (the I in PID) then you will need to put the PID into "manual" control or "pause" or whatever your controller uses when the element to the boil kettle is disconnected and the PID is powered up. If you don't you will get what is called integral windup effect and can cause the temperature to overshoot your setpoint once you re-enable the CV (control variable, which in our case is the heater). Essentially if the PID is enabled (or in AUTO) and it cannot control anything it'll be slowly "pushing the gas pedal down further without the engine running and when you turn the engine on it will over rev" (best way i can describe it). Usually you want to make sure that the PID is enabled only when it can actually control something. Just read the manual for your controller and you will find what I am talking about.

Alternatively, your controller probably has an input to put the control loop in manual, and if you have an auxillary contact on your disconnect switch you could wire that back to the controller so that it will automatically pause the PID control when you disconnect the heating element.

Anyways I will be following this thread carefully as I am looking forward to doing the same thing Actually today at lunch I spent a little time surfing ebay for SSRs and going to home depot to look at heater element pricing!

 

[The Pol]

Yes, my PID will only be operated in MANUAL... in a BK there is really no need for AUTO. The pid will either be set at 100% to get the boil rolling, or say 70% or so once it gets going.

Thanks for the heads up!

I understand what you are saying about overshooting the temp... fortunately in the BK it is boiling, so there is no real "control".

I do intend to only operate the PID in manual, since it is simply boiling wort.

 

[drez77]

I have the same PID and I use 100% to get going then drop it to 80% once I have the hot break. It produces a nice boil at 80% for me. At 70% it seemed to pulse. With it set at 80% I get about 1.5gallons of boil off in a sanke boil kettle. It is real nice to have the temperature read out so if you use and immersion chiller you can see easily what temperature you are at.

Good luck with your project!

Mike

 

[The Pol]

HEY, thanks MIKE! I am guessing at the percentages since I have never used a PID for a BK. I generally get about 1.4 gallons of boil off when using a propane burner, thanks for giving me a starting point for the first brew!

Are you using a 5500W element as well for the boil? Are you also brewing 5 gallon batches?

THANKS!

Today the wife and daughter are heading to Cinci... so I am home alone, left to my own devices. I will be piecing together my control panel today friends. I recieved my distribution block from AUTOMATION DIRECT yesterday as you can see from the above photo of the control box guts. I am heading out to buy a hot knife to make the precise cuts in my control box housing for switches and outlets.

 

[The Pol]

Just a little FYI...
Most of you will notice that I bought A LOT of my parts from Ron's True Value located here in Indy. They have an online ordering option, which is great because they do not stock all of these parts in thier store.
I called today since it had been a week since I placed the order online, to pick up in store, and the website still said processing. The manager called me right back aplogizing profusely... apparently they are not accustomed to having people pick up orders in the store and had completely neglected to call me to inform me that my order was in. If you live near Indy, and order these parts from these folks, the prices are GREAT, just remember to call them, they may not call you when they come in.

I am heading out to pick up this order this morning and will have the next several days to assemble my electric HERMS control panel and convert my keggle!

I should have this thing up and running by New Years easily!!