Blichmann BrewEasy

[scullerkurt]

After retuning the top controller, ramps are done in 10 mins no problem, then 10 mins mash out with 168 on the mt thermometer, used to take much longer with breweasy setup. After I fly sparge from hlt (using rims rocket to control temp) I swap the plug to bk and boil away. Boil is gonna denature enzymes quickly regardless.

 

[chigundo]

I still don't understand why you need the rims rocket with your setup. Why not just use the autosparge and the TOP to handle everything?

 

[scullerkurt]

I do use autosparge and use the top, what I eliminated was the 2+gallons of wort in the bk (b/c you need to keep electric coil immersed in wort). I can either put that water into making a thinner mash if I have a high grain bill, or into the hlt. My efficiencies are pretty high, in line with any 3 pot system, the temp controls are real tight, and I'm making really good beer per my lhbs whom is a certified beer judge. The biggest change is hitting the temps in the mt in a reasonable time frame. For example, the top may be at 168, but the mt used to never hit 168 after ramp and 10 min mash. Now the mt thermowell hits 168 in about 6 or so minutes. I used to wait 30 minutes for the mt to hit 168 when I used the "Krims" method.

 

[chewymatingcall]

At first thought 8-12 hours seems long, but looking at my last brew log, maybe not:

2-hours to collect and heat 17 gallons of RO water to strike temperature.
10-minute dough-in
90-minute mash
20-minute mashout (10 to raise temperature + 10 to hold)
25-minutes to heat to boil
90-minute boil (I use a lot of German Pils)
15-minutes to chill to pitching temp
Maybe another hour to hour-and-a-half to basically CIP, rinse and tidy up afterwards...

Yeah, 8+ hours isn't unreasonable from start to finish including cleanup.

Curious to hear what other's experiences are, especially if doing a step mash.

Mike

I did a 22 gallon batch in 6.5 hours this weekend with two people. The first 30 minutes though doesn't really count, as all I do is hit the on button and then go make/eat breakfast.

 

[Want2BS8ed]

For mashing out on a Breweasy system, do you simply ramp up the mashtun to 168F and recirculate for 10 minutes, or get the mash tun to 168F, shut off the pump, close the mashtun drain valve and let it sit for 10 minutes at 168F before doing a slow drain?

Which do you do?

It seems one doesn't have any more benefit over the other.

I ramp to 168 deg and continue to circulate for 10 minutes.

Reading Gordon Strong's latest, this looks to be the ideal time to "Mash Cap" (his term not mine), where you add dark grains during the mashout to avoid bitterness.

Mighty tempted to try this out with a Dunkleweizen this weekend.

Anyone actually gone to the effort to do a decoction with their BrewEasy?

M

 

[Want2BS8ed]

I do use autosparge and use the top, what I eliminated was the 2+gallons of wort in the bk (b/c you need to keep electric coil immersed in wort). I can either put that water into making a thinner mash if I have a high grain bill, or into the hlt. My efficiencies are pretty high, in line with any 3 pot system, the temp controls are real tight, and I'm making really good beer per my lhbs whom is a certified beer judge. The biggest change is hitting the temps in the mt in a reasonable time frame. For example, the top may be at 168, but the mt used to never hit 168 after ramp and 10 min mash. Now the mt thermowell hits 168 in about 6 or so minutes. I used to wait 30 minutes for the mt to hit 168 when I used the "Krims" method.

So are you essentially using the boil kettle as grant while mashing then?

M

 

[scullerkurt]

Nope. During the mash, the bk is basically a real expensive stainless steel stand that the mt rests on. I hook up the mt directly to the pump. Pump discharges to rims rocket, rims rocket outlet to my full TOP, which discharges into the autosparge. I manually adjust the flow to 3 lpm per the sight flow meter (so basically I'm not using the autosparge to control level until I sparge. I haven't had any issues with stuck mashes, in fact less issues with this setup. I try and run mash at 2 qt/lb. everything runs smooth and efficiently both time wise and brewhouse wise.

 

[Want2BS8ed]

Nope. During the mash, the bk is basically a real expensive stainless steel stand that the mt rests on. I hook up the mt directly to the pump. Pump discharges to rims rocket, rims rocket outlet to my full TOP, which discharges into the autosparge. I manually adjust the flow to 3 lpm per the sight flow meter (so basically I'm not using the autosparge to control level until I sparge. I haven't had any issues with stuck mashes, in fact less issues with this setup. I try and run mash at 2 qt/lb. everything runs smooth and efficiently both time wise and brewhouse wise.

Thanks. I just recently converted the BrewEasy from NG to electric (both TOP controlled) and have been a tad disappointed in the heating times. Benefit of brewing indoors still outweighs the time, but I have been casting about for a fix and your solution is intriguing. Good to know your mash isn't sticking, that would have been my first concern drawing directly from the mash tun, but if it ain't broke, don't fix it, right?

Thanks again,

Mike

 

[Danam404]

Curious daman mentioned adding 100ppm of calcium to the water for all batches. Is this the consensus for everyone else?

For what it's worth, this is directly from John Blichmann in a conversation we had on the phone several months back. It's been working pretty well for me.

 

[Gustatorian]

I do use autosparge and use the top, what I eliminated was the 2+gallons of wort in the bk (b/c you need to keep electric coil immersed in wort). I can either put that water into making a thinner mash if I have a high grain bill, or into the hlt. My efficiencies are pretty high, in line with any 3 pot system, the temp controls are real tight, and I'm making really good beer per my lhbs whom is a certified beer judge. The biggest change is hitting the temps in the mt in a reasonable time frame. For example, the top may be at 168, but the mt used to never hit 168 after ramp and 10 min mash. Now the mt thermowell hits 168 in about 6 or so minutes. I used to wait 30 minutes for the mt to hit 168 when I used the "Krims" method.

This is great. Did you think of using the RIMS Rocket for this? I continually have issues keeping the boil coil submerged and keeping my mash thin enough. Can you tell me more about your set up/send me more photos? I'm considering purchasing one if you think it's worth it. Can you control the temp of the RIMS rockets through the Tower of Power? Sorry about all of the questions!

 

[scullerkurt]

Check out post 595 by me, it has a picture when I'm fly sparging. Yes, using the rims rocket and loving it. When I mash, the mt is hooked up to the pump inlet, instead of the hlt during the sparge.

You only need one top controller, may slightly delay you getting the bk going, but for $500 I can be slightly patient.

Don't forget, you'll want to retune (auto tune) the top. If you want, I can post how I did that. Any suggestions where to post, on this thread, or a new one?

 

[Gustatorian]

Check out post 595 by me, it has a picture when I'm fly sparging. Yes, using the rims rocket and loving it. When I mash, the mt is hooked up to the pump inlet, instead of the hlt during the sparge.

You only need one top controller, may slightly delay you getting the bk going, but for $500 I can be slightly patient.

Don't forget, you'll want to retune (auto tune) the top. If you want, I can post how I did that. Any suggestions where to post, on this thread, or a new one?

Anything you can show me/any info you can get to me, I'd appreciate it IMMENSELY. Even if you want to send me a personal message, I'd love to talk to you more about this. THANKS!

 

[scullerkurt]

Fill up your system with water and run the auto tune. See the PDF link http://www.mrclab.com/Media/Doc/DTA-4848OPR.pdf looks pretty familiar, eh? There are some differences, but with the manual I was able to find "at". See page 4 of the manual.

To get auto tune "at" to show up on the TOP, press "enter" and relatively quickly release the enter button. If you press too long, you'll get into initial setting function mode (see page 6 of the manual for a good visual), no need to change anything here.

1) Manually heat up the water to reasonable mash temperature set point, I think I did something like 156 deg F. Once the rtd reads 156, I set the manual controller to "00" for a few minutes to make sure everything was reasonably stable.
2) Adjust the TOP set point for what ever the process is running (say152 for example)
3) Move the toggle switch from manual to auto.
4) Change the autotune setting to run, press the enter key. You'll see a green led light up under the text "at" on the lower left of the TOP controller.

The autotune is complete when the green led shuts off. What happens during autotune is the controller does a series of "bump" tests, where it changes the output and looks at the response. Based off the response, it will be able to characterize your system, and calculate p, I, and d for the controller.

After autotune is complete, try changing the set point on the TOP controller. I found the response was much faster with less overshoot. See post 595 for a screenshot of the controllers response. That picture shows post autotune, before auto tuning, the process had pretty significant swings (+\- 10 degrees) when I was using the rims rocket to control the mash temp. Blichmann has the controller set up for "gain" only, p=1, i=0, d=0. That is a very unusual setup from a process control standpoint, I never in my career of loop tuning (I was running bump tests and running all the calculations to determine pid settings...autotune replaced that skill for the most part) had a gain only process. Temperature controllers usually use all three, p, I, and d. You'll see those numbers used after running autotune.

You'll likely need to run autotune with grain to optimize the settings...I haven't auto tuned with grain yet, on some grain bills you'll see a small cycling of the temperature (a degree or two each way)...but the mt thermometer stays exactly at the temperature I want, and gets there in a reasonable time frame. Next time I brew perhaps I'll autotune with grain, not sure why I haven't done that yet, I guess the system has been good enough that I've been able to focus on other process improvements.

Let me know how you make out. I'm guessing that even without the rims rocket, running autotune would be beneficial if you want to improve the controls of the "Krims" setup.

 

[Gustatorian]

Fill up your system with water and run the auto tune. See the PDF link http://www.mrclab.com/Media/Doc/DTA-4848OPR.pdf looks pretty familiar, eh? There are some differences, but with the manual I was able to find "at". See page 4 of the manual.

To get auto tune "at" to show up on the TOP, press "enter" and relatively quickly release the enter button. If you press too long, you'll get into initial setting function mode (see page 6 of the manual for a good visual), no need to change anything here.

1) Manually heat up the water to reasonable mash temperature set point, I think I did something like 156 deg F. Once the rtd reads 156, I set the manual controller to "00" for a few minutes to make sure everything was reasonably stable.
2) Adjust the TOP set point for what ever the process is running (say152 for example)
3) Move the toggle switch from manual to auto.
4) Change the autotune setting to run, press the enter key. You'll see a green led light up under the text "at" on the lower left of the TOP controller.

The autotune is complete when the green led shuts off. What happens during autotune is the controller does a series of "bump" tests, where it changes the output and looks at the response. Based off the response, it will be able to characterize your system, and calculate p, I, and d for the controller.

After autotune is complete, try changing the set point on the TOP controller. I found the response was much faster with less overshoot. See post 595 for a screenshot of the controllers response. That picture shows post autotune, before auto tuning, the process had pretty significant swings (+\- 10 degrees) when I was using the rims rocket to control the mash temp. Blichmann has the controller set up for "gain" only, p=1, i=0, d=0. That is a very unusual setup from a process control standpoint, I never in my career of loop tuning (I was running bump tests and running all the calculations to determine pid settings...autotune replaced that skill for the most part) had a gain only process. Temperature controllers usually use all three, p, I, and d. You'll see those numbers used after running autotune.

You'll likely need to run autotune with grain to optimize the settings...I haven't auto tuned with grain yet, on some grain bills you'll see a small cycling of the temperature (a degree or two each way)...but the mt thermometer stays exactly at the temperature I want, and gets there in a reasonable time frame. Next time I brew perhaps I'll autotune with grain, not sure why I haven't done that yet, I guess the system has been good enough that I've been able to focus on other process improvements.

Let me know how you make out. I'm guessing that even without the rims rocket, running autotune would be beneficial if you want to improve the controls of the "Krims" setup.

HUGE THANKS. I'm not an engineer, but I think I'm getting the just of it. So when you switch the toggle from "manual" to "auto" and then press "enter", the AT runs it's course, analyzes, and determines P,I, and D. It will notify me when the green LED light shut off? Correct?

Also, can you take some photos and give me some details of how your MT is set up with the RIMS rockets. I want to see/know the directions of how the wort runs through the rockets and back into the MT. I've had issues with coil exposure, so if I could bypass using the boil coil for mashing, I'd love to do that. Also, can the 240V plug that I have for my BoilCoil be used for the RIMS rockets, so I can interchange them through the brewing process?

Thanks again, I owe ya a beer!

 

[avmech]

I have another brew day under my belt and I have more experiences to share.

Recap: Last brew session used 5.2 pH stabilizer and yielded 60% efficiency. I also had major clogging at the temp probe after the pump. In my last post I stated that I felt this 90 degree elbow and temp probe was the weakest link in the system. Way too narrow and way too easy to clog.

In an attempt to prevent clogging I added two items to the system. First I added a 10.5"x16" 300 micron stainless steel screen basket into the BK. This fits perfect in the middle of the BK and the size is just right to let the wort boil over the rim of the basket. It creates a nice circulation process to ensure the hops get maximum utilization. Second, I added the HopRocket inline between the kettle and pump. I know this isn't the ideal location for the HopRocket because you do not want to restrict flow to the pump inlet. I threw caution to the wind and it worked just fine. In the future if I am brewing a style that doesn't benefit from late hop additions I will pack the HopRocket with a copper scrubbie...anything to create an extra filter.

So, the system improvements are out of the way. Lets brew!

This go around I paid close attention to my water chemistry. I used 50% distilled water and the rest tap water. After doing some math I decided I needed 10 grams CaSO4 and 8ml Lactic Acid. I also added Campden/Potassium Metabisulfite for chloramine removal.

I doughed in 19lbs malt with 4 lbs flaked rye @ 122F for some protein rest with plans to step up to 152F for sacc rest and then 168F for lauter. Well, that was a nice plan, but didn't go so well. The mash got stuck and it was stuck hard. I wasn't getting a drop out of it.

I know, 4lbs of flaked rye and 122F water was pushing it, but in my old MT that wasn't an issue. Unfortunately this FB wasn't up for the task. Lessons learned. After a trip to LHBS and 4lbs of rice hulls I got things moving again.

The rest of the day went as planned. I did note it took about 30 minutes to get the mash from 152F to 168F. Good to know for planning purposes.

At the end of the day, I ended up with 75% efficiency. I am really happy with that.

For cleanup I filled both the BK and MT with water and about 6 scoops of OxiClean. I reversed the hoses so it would back flush my plate chiller and I let it recirculate as I brought the temp up to 190F. Once it hit 190F I shut it down and let it sit overnight. Next day I drained and rinsed. The hoses were spotless and the kettles were clean. There is a little beerstone starting to build up on the metal but that is to be expected. I'll probably end up doing an acid soak annually to get rid of that.

All-in-all I am still happy with the product despite having two different clogging issues on two different occasions. Part of it is my fault and just learning how to work new equipment. I'm looking forward to the next batch.

And with that, I leave you with a little porn:

 

[gotbags-10]

Not fair !

 

[psymonkey]

I brewed yesterday & from start to finish it took 6.5 hours. Only a 60 min boil.

But, for the second time I could not get my burner working correctly. I once again had to remove the solenoid & control the heat by lighting the burner manually every time, not using the tower of power. I replaced the red ignition cable & it still didn't work. Has anyone had this problem & know what the fix is? The igniter just keeps clicking & thinking there is no flame when it has a great flame. It doesn't have a normal thermocouple but I'm guessing the red cable sends a signal via a resistance change that the igniter is hot.

Have you reached out to Blichmann?

 

[scullerkurt]

What is the flow rate of your mash? Since you aren't using a grant to absorb minor process fluctuations, you need to be tightly control your flow as you're pumping directly from the mt, if not you'll stick your mash. Since I use the full TOP, I can easily see my flow, and I adjust the flow for 3 lpm for a 5 gal batch. Sounds like you do 10 gal batch, so I'm guessing you would need a slightly higher flow.

Also, did you autotune the controller? If not, jot down the pid numbers, then run the autotune. I'm guessing you have some significant time gains just by improved tuning. If you don't like how it performs, put in the old configuration.

 

[scullerkurt]

Gustatorian -

You are correct regarding autotune, when the green light is off, it's done auto tuning. You can scroll through and see what the new values are for pid.

I'll take photos and/or quick video next time I brew, should be in the next few weeks. Post 595 shows the system, only difference is when I mash the hlt isn't there, I hook up a hose from the mt to the pump inlet. Otherwise all else is as shown on the picture I attached to post 595.

Also, yes, I'm using the same exact 240v plug for the 240v rims rocket. Once I'm done with the rims rocket, I swap the plug to the boil coil. Just running one top. Works fine.

 

[jmitchell3]

Avmec,

When you are having problems with clogging at the temp probe, when in the process is this occuring? Is it correct this clogging is happening post boil during your kettle drain? Or during your recirculation prior to flameout?

 

[avmech]

Avmec,

When you are having problems with clogging at the temp probe, when in the process is this occuring? Is it correct this clogging is happening post boil during your kettle drain? Or during your recirculation prior to flameout?

The clogging was post boil as all the hops and trub got picked up on the way out of the kettle.

 

[Danam404]

That stainless is straight up sexual my friend!

 

[scullerkurt]

I use the hop blocker, never had a problem

 

[avmech]

I use the hop blocker, never had a problem

Yea, I was tempted to go that route but read mixed reviews so I was hesitant. Then I read the directions and it just seemed a little hokey. Jury is still out on the 300 micron screen basket. If I detect reduced utilization from the hops then I may switch to the hop blocker. I'll still have the HopRocket in line as a secondary filter.

 

[scullerkurt]

I also use a 300 micron filter that I purchased from Utah biodiesel. I've made some damn good session ipas that I'm going to try scaling up in my 10 bbl brewery, so I haven't experienced any issues with those filters to date.

 

[Want2BS8ed]

I use a kettle hop spider from Morebeer...

http://www.morebeer.com/products/kettle-spider.html

...and have one of these hanging off of my TOP (aka Das Beer Dialysis Machine) as well for keeping junk out my chillers (two Duda Diesel B3-36A's).

https://www.brewershardware.com/FILTER1.html

M

 

[Gustatorian]

Just wanted to fill you guys in on my brew day yesterday. Any criticism is gladly expected and accepted.

Also, sorry if this is a mess.

My system is a 15 MT, 20 BK with boilcoil and TOP. I'm brewing 6.5 gallons to fermentor.

Ultimately, I'm a little disappointed. Not because my brew day didn't go smoothly, but because my efficiency is still crap. Based on my BeerSmith Calculations, my mash efficiency is 63.5 % and brewhouse efficiency is 60%. I'm thinking this is correct because when I calculate the volume of wort that goes into the fermentor, and what my OG and pre-boil gravity are, the numbers are pretty much spot on. One thing that irks me is that my 20G Blichmann BK volume gauge is off (pretty much by close to a gallon. I've emailed blichmann about the amount of volume that the boilcoil takes up and they say it's between 6-8 oz, not enough to give a significant different like a gallon). I initially add all the water to my BK (measure carefully in buckets) and it still says I have more in the BK than I added (this again is verified when I measure my pre-boil volume on the BK and it is much higher than Beersmith estimates. Additionally, beersmith is correct because I'm brewing for 6.5 gallons in the fermentor and it is, again, spot-on).

With that being said, does anybody have anymore tricks to increase efficiency on a no-sparge RIMS system? I don't know the crush of my grains but I can ask, although I'm unsure if they can change the crush and if they can, I'm worried about getting a stuck mash. I've perfected the water profile to get between 5.3-5.6 pH at Mash Out. I stir the mash every 15 minutes, I use the 2.0 GPM ring when circulating and the 0.5 when draining into my BK. It's frustrating because I want to brew bigger beers but I fear my volumes will be too low and my mash will be way too thick. Also, I don't want to boil for an hour (especially when the Blichmann BK Volume gauge is off)

Also, can anybody give me an in-depth way of how they clean their system? I'm making a mess after the mash recirculation and post-boil. Maybe even a video if you have the time.

 

[scullerkurt]

I'll make a video on my next brew day, should be in a week or so. My mash efficiencies are really high, 80 to 85%, my cleaning process is decent too (just time consuming) Being a former process engineer, optimization is in my blood.

I put marks of my sight glasses with a sharpie so I know my volumes...my bk reads about 3/4 gallon off "actual." I made the marks when coil, hopblocker, and my hop basket were all in the kettle. I also found the mt readings off as well, something like 1/2 gallon.

Fwiw, I spent the time and money on the blichmann system to qualify it as my lab scale brewhouse. I'm opening up a 10 bbl brewhouse next summer. I've run my system side by side with a 10 gallon fancy schmancy keggle system, my system outperformed the keggle by 2 points degrees plato. I can't complain about that!

 

[Gustatorian]

I'll make a video on my next brew day, should be in a week or so. My mash efficiencies are really high, 80 to 85%, my cleaning process is decent too (just time consuming) Being a former process engineer, optimization is in my blood.

I put marks of my sight glasses with a sharpie so I know my volumes...my bk reads about 3/4 gallon off "actual." I made the marks when coil, hopblocker, and my hop basket were all in the kettle. I also found the mt readings off as well, something like 1/2 gallon.

Fwiw, I spent the time and money on the blichmann system to qualify it as my lab scale brewhouse. I'm opening up a 10 bbl brewhouse next summer. I've run my system side by side with a 10 gallon fancy schmancy keggle system, my system outperformed the keggle by 2 points degrees plato. I can't complain about that!

Thanks Scullerkurt,

The video would be a huge help! 80-85% efficiency would be a dream, but I would settle for 70%. So what do you think makes you get that efficiency? What is your grain crush? Do you use rice hulls?

 

[chewymatingcall]

I get about 72% using danam's methods. Except I drain off about .75-1 gpm. I check the gravity before draining and after. The difference is negligible with draining at .5 gpm.