Blichmann Boilermaker G2

[ktzimmer]

Damn! I was just $300 short of having the necessary cash to buy three (3) 20 gallon brew pots to add to the pile of pieces I need to setup my eBrewery. I don't like to looks of this new pot. Rubberized handles, thin and one sided lid handle, silly proprietary valve. Looks like some cheap, oversized Calphalon stock pot you could get at Kohls. American made (if that's true) is a big plus to me. However this seems to lack the fit and finish of a true, made with pride in America, product. Now I have to weigh my options again. Stout is Chinese, am I correct on this?

 

[trimixdiver1]

I sell this stuff, we have one 15g g1 pot in our chain. The only source of the gen 1 pots is what's left on blichmann shelves and the shelves of LHBS. Larger online retailers don't stock blichmann. They drop ship, so they place an order with blichmann when you place an order from them and blichmann sends the pot.

I like the older ones too, I wish they would offer both generations side by side for say a year then discontinue the gen 1 pots.

 

[trimixdiver1]

Damn! I was just $300 short of having the necessary cash to buy three (3) 20 gallon brew pots to add to the pile of pieces I need to setup my eBrewery. I don't like to looks of this new pot. Rubberized handles, thin and one sided lid handle, silly proprietary valve. Looks like some cheap, oversized Calphalon stock pot you could get at Kohls. American made (if that's true) is a big plus to me. However this seems to lack the fit and finish of a true, made with pride in America, product. Now I have to weigh my options again. Stout is Chinese, am I correct on this?

Yes stout is Chinese, but so is blichmann for the most part

 

[Markd27]

For anyone that is interested, I have 2 15 and 1 10 gallon G1 Boilermakers that are in great condition, and I'm willing to trade at least one of them for a G2 pot of the same size, straight up.

 

[trimixdiver1]

For anyone that is interested, I have 2 15 and 1 10 gallon G1 Boilermakers that are in great condition, and I'm willing to trade at least one of them for a G2 pot of the same size, straight up.

You are a special one huh?

Who would go out and buy a pot that costs more and trade it for a used kettle?

Wow!!

ipe:

 

[TobyG]

I've had these older boilermakers for some time. I've never had any problems with hot metal. The only portion that I have to worry about is the ball valve when the propane burner is up really high (normally when it's windy outside) I can't imagine the pot handle getting hot enough to need rubber handles. The rubber on the lid handle is questionable too.

Actually, rubber on the lid handle would be marginally useful for me. I brew outside, and in the Louisiana summer, the lid handle will get up well over 100F even just sitting out in the sunlight. On the HLT I leave the lid on, so it does get too hot to touch (for example, if I need to add acid for the sparge water).

I'm not that enthused about the new valve design. I was originally considering putting together a BrewEasy with my existing HLT, but with the new design, I think I'm just going to figure out a way to reuse my existing setup to make it work.

 

[GreatFermentations]

All -

For starters, I just want everyone to know that I work for a retailer (Great Fermentations), and we are selling the G2 pot….so I’m obviously a bit biased on this topic. Just want to throw that out first, so no one thinks I’m trying to mask my intentions! With that being said, I’ve been watching this thread for the past couple days, and thought it was time to give John B a call. The idea was to get answers for some of the questions/concerns that have been raised on this thread. We have a very good relationship with John and all the other guys at Blichmann, and I KNOW that they look at every part on their product to make sure that it has a specific purpose for the user. Yes, I’m sure there are design decisions that sometimes have a cost element involved, but at the end of the day John cares most about making a top quality product. Period. Anyways, here is an overview of the answers I got:

A lot of the questions and concerns seem to be centered around the new linear flow valve, which is admittedly not the best name Blichmann developed the new valve to help with cleaning, provide an easy means to set the flow rate, and have an outlet that reduces hose kinking and eliminates additional needed elbows and nipples.

• The valve takes about 5 seconds to disassemble (much easier than the 3-piece) and requires no tools.
• It is easy to visually tell if the valve is open or closed (see the attached pics).
• The shape of the stem makes the flow increase evenly as it is opened (1/4 open is 1/4 of the max flow) and this allows you to more precisely set your flow easily and repeatable. I understand a lot of people just open their ball valves 100% percent and let downstream valves handle flow control, but there are some people that can benefit from the more precise control at the source. If you don’t need it, open it all the way. The outlet is 1/2 in. NPT, and has a lifetime warranty so being custom built for this purpose should not present any problems.
• The 90 degree outlet reduces hose kinking and you can easily orient the outlet in any direction (up, down, left, right, and anywhere in between).
• The material of the valve grip and internal seals are silicone which has a temp rating similar to Teflon (about 550F), so the grip won’t melt like typical vinyl grips on ball valves, nor will the internal seals melt.

Now onto the new grips. They were added (to the lid and the kettle) to make it more comfortable to hold and to prevent burns. If you haven’t been burned before on a pot without the grips, I applaud you. Some people have though. The material is capable of handling temperatures up to 400F. It’s also extremely durable and is the same type of material used for many gun stocks and power tools. You will tear a hole in the pot (for those like me that lift the pot when its full like we’re not supposed to) before that handle comes off. That all aside, the structure is still stainless steel. So you get the benefit of the G1 with the added bonus of a durable cool to the touch handle. Win win. I understand that the open style of the lid handle is a bit different, but the idea was that it gives you the ability to hang it in multiple places in your brewery, and not just on the pot (but it still can be hung on the pot!). I know multiple times I’ve bumped the old lid while it was hanging from my BoilerMaker and clanged to the ground; the L-shaped design will definitely provide a better and more secure resting place.

Now for the manufacturing! The 7.5-20 gal kettles are made in the USA out of US made 304L stainless steel. They are deep drawn out of a single sheet. They are not spun or welded. The 30 gal and larger pots are imported and are welded due to their size. However, all kettles are fully assembled in the USA in their facility in Lafayette, IN. I will also add that the product has a lifetime warranty so they are really standing behind it. The finish was changed to the brush style to help hide fingerprints and water stains, so it will stay looking awesome for a long time. The inside is still the super silky satin finish that is easy to clean. The different finish is probably the piece that threw me off the most, and will be a challenge for those that want their equipment to look the same, but it is what it is. Still a great pot. If you are on the fence about it, stop by your LHBS and take a look at it in person once they come in and you might have a different opinion!

The thermometer was lowered by about an inch from the G1 version.

At the end of the day you get a US made product, a valve that is simple to clean, easy to use, an outlet that can be oriented in any direction, and grips that are very comfortable to use. Also the cost only went up by about 6%, and for a pot that is manufactured in the USA, that is great.

I really hope this answers some of the questions and/or dispels some of the concerns that have come up. I’m not expecting to win all of you over; I simply want to lay out the facts from the source, and help aide in a meaningful conversation about the advantages and disadvantages of a new product. If you have any questions please let me know or contact Blichmann Engineering on their web page and they can address any other concerns you have.

Cheers!
Bryan

 

[kal]

Thanks for posting the info from John.

My 2 cents:

Blichmann developed the new valve to help with cleaning... The valve takes about 5 seconds to disassemble (much easier than the 3-piece) and requires no tools.

FWIW, I've had my original boilermaker's since 2008 and have never taken the 3-piece valves apart for cleaning. There's no need to (or advantage) since like everyone else, my 3 kettles are on the hot side of the brewing process. About once a year I recirc hot oxiclean to clean all. Good enough. Yes, some "stuff" may be in some of the crevices of the ball valve, but again, who cares? It's harmless. If this was a cold fermentation side of the brewing process I'd care.

... eliminates additional needed elbows and nipples.

Only if you want to exit sideways. If you use a Tee on the output to include an NPT thermometer like I do, then you may need an elbow. I also find it much easier to hook up a hose with a QD straight on with the QD hanging out beyond the edge of the table as it gives you a spot to hold a small bowl to catch drips. You can't do that now. It's actually as if they don't expect people to use the new kettles with a table at all and only with their burners and their 3-tier setup.

[*]It is easy to visually tell if the valve is open or closed (see the attached pics).

IMHO no where near as easy a ball valve. This new valves needs you to look at it from the side and know what it means since it's proprietary. A ball valve you can look at and know if it's 25% open, 50% open, or 100% open because they're standard positions from 0 to 90 degrees. Very easy to tell. On this thing, who knows. you can know is "I think it's open, but not sure if it's 10%, or 100%" unless you get out and measure the difference between a full open one and the one you're wondering about. Over time you'll probably get good at it but it's not as immediately obvious as a ball valve. A ball valve has that nice 90 degree sweep from closed to open so it's immediately obvious.

[*]I understand a lot of people just open their ball valves 100% percent and let downstream valves handle flow control, but there are some people that can benefit from the more precise control at the source.[/quote]
True. This would only be people that gravity drain. Anyone with a single tier setup has to use pumps so feature is of no value to them. I find it hard to believe that many people are buying what many consider expensive Blichmann kettles and then balking at the price of a pump and instead killing their backs or climbing up ladders to unsafely dump 20+ lbs of grain into a kettle high up in the air.

The outlet is 1/2 in. NPT, and has a lifetime warranty so being custom built for this purpose should not present any problems.

Only useful if (a) Blichmann is still in business, and (b) is still making the valve, and possibly (c) you may need to make sure you don't lose your original receipt. Not sure how the warranty works, but if you're required to go through the store you bought from that would pose a problem too as LHBS's come and go.

So again IMHO of course, but I don't see how this is anywhere as good as using truly common standards and non-proprietary parts like a standard ball valve. When I put together my setup I didn't want to assume or hope that any given company would be around 20 years from now. I wanted a system for life and intend on brewing for another 20-30+ years and didn't want to have to worry any companies still being around.

The 90 degree outlet reduces hose kinking and you can easily orient the outlet in any direction (up, down, left, right, and anywhere in between).

People must be using junky hoses. I go out the front with everything and have never had issues with kinking:

I understand that the open style of the lid handle is a bit different, but the idea was that it gives you the ability to hang it in multiple places in your brewery, and not just on the pot (but it still can be hung on the pot!).

I would argue that the old version is easier to hang in different places in your brewery. All you needed was a hook, a nail, or some other protrusion on the wall. This no longer works with the new handle as it's open on one end.

The only place you can hang the new one is a vertical wall who's width is less than an inch or so (like a kettle wall) - the distance between the lid and the handle. To hang the new lid on a hook or nail, the hook/nail would have to stick out of the wall at least 50% of the diameter of the lid and you'd have to hang the lid with it sticking out sideways into the room. Nobody's going to do that.

All my 2 cents of course.

Kal

 

[day_trippr]

There's no lack of irony that the new kettles won't work on a stand designed around their original kettles and floor burners.

So will Blichmann discount the G2 if shipped sans the new 90° valve?
Because that valve won't work for me, and I'm really not likely going to pay for two or three of them when I upgrade to 20g kettles...

Cheers!

 

[trimixdiver1]

My question now is: Is there a stop on the valve to prevent someone from unscrewing the knob completely out? We know it's easy to disassemble for cleaning as stated in the ads, but what is stopping someone from unscrewing it completely? Especially if it's full of hot wort?

Thanks

 

[trimixdiver1]

Great, just got word that the false bottoms for the 15 and 20 gallon pots can't be interchanged. So now you need to buy a separate false bottom for your G2 15 and 20 gallon pots.

Great!

 

[Markd27]

You are a special one huh?

Who would go out and buy a pot that costs more and trade it for a used kettle?

Wow!!

ipe:

Oh dear. You're a real sharp one huh?

It's a joke based on several folks hating the new pots, and wanting the old ones that are no longer available.

 

[Cyclman]

I would act fast, seems like they're getting scarce. I wanted another 20G "old style" and tried MoreBeer and Northern Brewer, neither could get one. Great Fermentations had 2 available in their warehouse and I ordered one immediately.

I had emailed Blichmann and they seemed to indicate some should still be around but the retailers were saying the opposite.

Just ordered one, there is at least one more round of G1s.

 

[jpalarchio]

Just ordered one, there is at least one more round of G1s.

Where did you get yours and what size?

 

[Cyclman]

Where did you get yours and what size?

My local brewshop contacted Blichmann, who added a 15G kettle to their next shipment- allegedly. The Brew Hut in Aurora, CO.

I hope it is what Blich purported it to be!

 

[Markd27]

There's no lack of irony that the new kettles won't work on a stand designed around their original kettles and floor burners.

So will Blichmann discount the G2 if shipped sans the new 90° valve?
Because that valve won't work for me, and I'm really not likely going to pay for two or three of them when I upgrade to 20g kettles...

Cheers!

You could possibly use the included valves in other areas of the brewery that are not space constrained, and install normal 3-piece valves in the kettle. Personally, I am really am looking forward to trying one out.

 

[jpalarchio]

My local brewshop contacted Blichmann, who added a 15G kettle to their next shipment- allegedly. The Brew Hut in Aurora, CO.



I hope it is what Blich purported it to be!

I was getting conflicting stories when I was hunting. MoreBeer told me they had to call customers with existing orders to get approval to switch to the G2. Northern Brewer said they were told by Blichmann that there were no G1s available. Blichmann was telling me they just made a batch.

I ended up finding the 20g I was looking for from Great Fermentations who had a couple in their warehouse. It arrived next day which was pretty impressive.

 

[Carlscan26]

So I'm not clear on something: can the new valve be replaced with the "normal" ball valve?

If so then why all this worry about future support of the valve, orientation, etc.? We're home brewers - we're going to customize these anyway/eventually. And the cost of swapping one of these "inferior" valves for the one you want is how much again? If you can afford a Blingman kettle you can afford a valve swap. Just my $.02




Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[jpalarchio]

I'd actually like to try the new valves out; I think they'd probably work in my setup. Hopefully some will show up in the classifieds.

The one thing I don't like about the traditional valves is how much they seem to stress the pot when you turn them; the metal near the hole flexes more than you might expect. I also took the locking tab off mine as I would forget about it and then try and wrench on the handle.

 

[kal]

]... eliminates additional needed elbows and nipples.

Only if you want to exit sideways. If you use a Tee on the output to include an NPT thermometer like I do, then you may need an elbow. I also find it much easier to hook up a hose with a QD straight on with the QD hanging out beyond the edge of the table as it gives you a spot to hold a small bowl to catch drips. You can't do that now. It's actually as if they don't expect people to use the new kettles with a table at all and only with their burners and their 3-tier setup.

My brain wasn't working when I wrote the above: I can still use a QD coming out the front if the special G2 valve is turned to point left or right, and a Tee is installed to have the QD facing forwards and an electronic temp probe facing left or right.

Results in pretty much the exact setup I have today, only difference is that you don't need a 1/2" close nipple to connect the Tee to the valve since the new valve is male (instead of female like on the old Boilermakers).

So both the round knob to open and close the valve and the QD would face forward. There may not be enough room to comfortably turn the valve with a QD or hose connected (I'd have to see) but a coupler+nipple could be added to extend out slightly sideways if needed.

Kal

 

[AleForce1]

I'd actually like to try the new valves out; I think they'd probably work in my setup.

Me too... especially for my mashtun. When using the false bottom, things have to line up correctly, and the ball valve doesn't get tight enough and it seems like my kettle leaks there.

I contacted Blichmann the other day about getting the new valve for my "G1's". They said that the valves will become available separately after they have enough for the G2's, so probably in a few months.

 

[Dasher12]

Yea im pretty pumped for these pots i think there gonna be really nice. There's always bitching and moaning when new things come out from people who are defensive/nostalgic about their old gear (understandable). I'm pretty convinced these new pots will do really well for Blichmann.

 

[Rivenin]

I dig the new pots.
The threading on the valve handle itself seems huge so it shouldn't take much of a huge spin to make the valves go, seems like it'll actually be a bit nicer to deal with and smoother... and plus cleaning looks way easier than taking apart the huge valves for the "spring cleaning" of your tear down items.

and honestly, with the barbs pointing down, it'll cause less flex in the hoses causing them not to kink... unless you already bought a 90* NPT pipe.

 

[day_trippr]

Put in my order for a matched triplet of 20 gallon kettles and a pair of false bottoms.
Specified G1 or forgettaboutit.
Should know by mid next week whether I'll be shopping Stout...

Cheers!

 

[rcrabb22]

I sent a question to Blichmann Engineering regarding G1 20 gal kettle false bottom compatibility. They said the 20 gal G1 false bottom IS NOT compatible with the same capacity G2 kettle but the 20 gal G2 false bottom IS compatible with the same capacity G1 kettle. The G2 must have a smaller diameter.

 

[day_trippr]

Yea im pretty pumped for these pots i think there gonna be really nice. There's always bitching and moaning when new things come out from people who are defensive/nostalgic about their old gear (understandable).[...]

Of course, that's what this is all about.

Ignore the actual geometry issues for people who have table-top designs or plumbing and clearance issues with rigs that were essentially "Designed for Blichmann", and that the new valve has zero added value on a pumped rig, this is all about nostalgia...

Cheers!

 

[jpalarchio]

Ignore the actual geometry issues for people who have table-top designs or plumbing and clearance issues with rigs that were essentially "Designed for Blichmann", and that the new valve has zero added value on a pumped rig, this is all about nostalgia...

I don't know, seems like a little bit of a stretch. I suppose there is a small group of people building towards something where they were mid-build and still need/want the old style. I was in that camp, I had actually been waiting for the 20g to be back in stock and managed to find a G1 version to fill that need.

I'd be surprised if someone has a rig built for 10g Boilermakers and they now want to upgrade to 20g and compatibility with the G2 is their only issue. Even so, what's a realistic expectation if you have a design locked into a particular product? It's not like these pots came out last year and are now changing; they've had a pretty long run.

I guess my thought is a company has every right to "improve" their product line and if they don't owe consumers advance warning. It's a business decision to announce new products far in advance or keep it a secret. If you announce a new product a year ahead of time, you might not sell your existing inventory as people will wait for the new model. Then when the new model is late because of whatever issue, everyone is pissed that the new product isn't here yet. Additionally, features are copied very quickly and there's a certain advantage of being the first to market with things like a new valve or US manufacturing.

Blichmann will receive the ultimate feedback in the form of sales. There are no shortage of alternatives these days; if people still like the product, they'll buy them.

 

[TobyG]

There's a part of me that thinks they expected a backlash. They announced a fair number of things last NHC that didn't show up until this year's NHC. However, I don't recall anything about G2 Boilermakers at this year's NHC, although they obviously must have had them in the pipe. Maybe I missed it since I was really only looking at the BoilCoils, but I would have thought a completely different finish and valve design would have caught my eye. All that being said, I would probably want to see one of the new design in person before dismissing it out of hand, but I'm probably not going to follow through on my intention of building my own BrewEasy and selling my 30. Rather, I'll probably figure out a way to make my existing setup work as electric.

 

[day_trippr]

I don't know, seems like a little bit of a stretch. I suppose there is a small group of people building towards something where they were mid-build and still need/want the old style.

Exactly. No nostalgia required.

I was in that camp, I had actually been waiting for the 20g to be back in stock and managed to find a G1 version to fill that need.

But you still think that's a stretch?

I'd be surprised if someone has a rig built for 10g Boilermakers and they now want to upgrade to 20g and compatibility with the G2 is their only issue.

Be surprised. In my specific case the new valve makes this a compatibility problem. Well, that, and the gawdawful exterior finish, I'll admit.

Even so, what's a realistic expectation if you have a design locked into a particular product? It's not like these pots came out last year and are now changing; they've had a pretty long run.

Go back a couple of pages. No, obviously it's not a numbers thing, but it's MY thing.

I guess my thought is a company has every right to "improve" their product line[...]

No argument on that. But my money may go elsewhere as a direct result.

It's not like I'm alone on this, the guys at the largest LHBS in my state are not happy with the G2...

Cheers!

 

[jpalarchio]

day_trippr- I guess a summary of my point is that they can't hold back innovation to cater to a minority. Yep, I was in that minority and I went out and found a 20g G1. Problem solved for me, life moves on.

I assume Blichmann feels the G2 is an improved product; I doubt their business plan is to release a product that the majority of people will like less than the competitor. Like I said, the sales will be the ultimate measurement of this.