Blending with Crab Apples

[Chalkyt]

I know the real answer is... "whatever tastes best" or something like that.

We are now halfway through Autumn (Fall). The trees are colouring up and I have just picked several Kg of crab apples which I would like to blend with sweet and not so sweet apples (I have red delicious, pomme de neige and cox's orange pippin on the trees) so I am looking for some guidance on what quantity of crab apples to add.

This is sort of back to front as the proportion of crab apples will determine the quantity of the other apples and hence how much juice I get. I need a starting point because if I run out of crab apples and haven't added enough, there is no going back because I don't have any more. One suggestion is 10%-20% by weight before scratting and pressing. I will probably use WLP775 (the other options are WLP002 and SO4)

I guess I can scratt and press each variety individually, then blend to taste, but a starting point would be useful.

Anyone had any experience with adding crab apples? All thoughts are welcome.

 

[GeneDaniels1963]

First, my situation is different as 1) I don't yet have a press, and 2) I add my crabs to store bought juice. That said, I use about 1-2 lbs crushed crabs in a 2 gal ferment pail. I tried 5 lb on time and it was too tannic.

Also, I think you will be very pleased with the taste the crabs add, they make a huge difference with plain, flabby store juice. I like them so much I just planted a crab tree so I will have a supply of my own.

BtW, I have heard that Cox's orange pippin is a great cider apple. I would love to have a tree of my own, but our climate in Arkansas is too hot and humid.

 

[Maylar]

Are crabapples a cash crop? I mean can you buy them when in season?

 

[GeneDaniels1963]

I know of a tree with nice russeted ones that is on public land near a highway. It is covered in fruit every fall. Last year I harvested 20 lbs and frozen them. They are highly tanic so they go a long ways in my cider.

Unfortunately, they are about to widen that road, so it will probably be gone this summer. That is what pushed me to plant my own Doglo crabapple tree. In a couple of years I will have all I need for cider. I might even try a pure Doglo wine, I've heard it is good.

 

[Maylar]

I have a fella at work who says his trees make thousands of them each year. He offered some to me last season when he found out I make cider, but I don't have a way to press them. Maybe I'll take him up on that this year and figure out something.

I'll prolly have to make him some wine for his troubles... hmm.

 

[b3nsf]

you can use a juicer, like the Jack Lelane juicer they sell at costco, you'll get a bit off pulp but you can rack off of that pretty easily...

 

[GeneDaniels1963]

I have a fella at work who says his trees make thousands of them each year. He offered some to me last season when he found out I make cider, but I don't have a way to press them. Maybe I'll take him up on that this year and figure out something.

I don't have a press, but since I only use use a few lb at a time, here is what I do.

1. freeze, then thaw as needed
2. cut or smash, depending on how ripe/soft
3. place in jelly bag and add to ferment for 3-4 days

It is not hard at all, unless you are doing really big batches of cider. I have also done it without the bag, a bit more work due to all the pulp, but still worth it.

 

[Maylar]

I don't have a press, but since I only use use a few lb at a time, here is what I do.

1. freeze, then thaw as needed
2. cut or smash, depending on how ripe/soft
3. place in jelly bag and add to ferment for 3-4 days

It is not hard at all, unless you are doing really big batches of cider. I have also done it without the bag, a bit more work due to all the pulp, but still worth it.

Depending on how big they are I could probably grind them in my meat grinder before freezing. Then use pulp in a bag. Thinking about this for my typical 5 gallon batch in the fall.

I'm surprised you get anything from them without actually pressing the juice. I could build a half azzed press if I had to.

 

[GeneDaniels1963]

when they thaw the juice is running out of them. BtW, I tried a meat grinder. It was a lot of work, and the freezing/thawing works just as well.

I read on various ways of "juicing" apples. Freezing extracts as much juice as any other method., weight for weight.

 

[madscientist451]

Anyone had any experience with adding crab apples? All thoughts are welcome.

There are too many variables when trying to decide how much of any type of apples to add to your cider. Even if we both have the same varieties of apples, the differences in climate, soil and other factors will change the results.
So my answer is to make small, 3 gallon or smaller batches, try different combinations and keep good notes.

 

[Chalkyt]

Thanks for the replies. Firstly, no they aren't a cash crop. I planted a tree a few years ago when the local brew shop suggested adding crab apples to cider. The tree is now about 6ft tall and this is the first real crop, but we only have 2.8 kg to play with.

From what I can gather, about 10% is a reasonable starting point. Based on my experience it takes about 10-12kg (5-6lbs) of apples to produce 4-5 litres of juice (i.e. about a gallon) so GeneDaniels numbers of 1lb of crab apples per gallon roughly equates to 10% by weight. Especially interesting is that 5lbs for 2 gallons (more than 20% by weight, was too much)

It also seems that there is quite a variation in crab apples so there is no "magic number" because it depends on the type of crab apple. I also suspect that the juice yield from crab apples will be less than the other apples so a gallon using 10% and another with the rest (maybe 15%) might be worth trying, especially if I can blend the two to zero in on an ideal result.

 

[Maylar]

I'm interested in this because some of the cider I get could use a bit of acid and tannin. I dunno what variety of crabs they'd be, but free is good.

 

[GeneDaniels1963]

The ones I harvest from the roadside are a russeted variety, sharp but almost edible when really ripe. I planted a Doglo because Yooper and others said it was a great variety for ciders and wines.

 

[wasully]

I know the real answer is... "whatever tastes best" or something like that.
One suggestion is 10%-20% by weight before scratting and pressing. I will probably use WLP775 (the other options are WLP002 and SO4)

I guess I can scratt and press each variety individually, then blend to taste, but a starting point would be useful.

Anyone had any experience with adding crab apples? All thoughts are welcome.

I seem to recall a couple of books suggesting up to 10% by juice volume, but they were assuming the rest of the fermentation was cider apples. And up to 20% if it was a bland fermentation/dessert apples in a different book? Fuzzy on the specifics, I just remember up to 20% for some reason.

Dragon's Head Manchurian Cider I believe had ~14-18%. I don't remember, it was on the bottle. And the rest were varieties I recognized as dessert fruit. But that info is not on the website. But it was a great cider!

But yeah, post fermentation blending is probably the "right" answer.

The ones I harvest from the roadside are a russeted variety, sharp but almost edible when really ripe. I planted a Doglo because Yooper and others said it was a great variety for ciders and wines.

Could always graft the one you like, too. You're planting anyway, might as well plant what you know you want/enjoy!

 

[Blacksmith1]

Do the graft to your existing tree. I have a lemon/lime in my yard.

 

[MarkKF]

I have a fella at work who says his trees make thousands of them each year. He offered some to me last season when he found out I make cider, but I don't have a way to press them. Maybe I'll take him up on that this year and figure out something.

I'll prolly have to make him some wine for his troubles... hmm.

I have a scratter & a press. You get ‘em & we can split the juice!

 

[Maylar]

I have a scratter & a press. You get ‘em & we can split the juice!

Sounds like a plan!