bleach in homebrewing

[Glibbidy]

I do agree that people use way too much bleach for sanitation.

Any bleach is too much. Again, I'll have to interject. Rinsing with hot water defeats the purpose of sanitizing with bleach, I mean whats the point in rinsing the bucket out with hot water? Sounds like a potential recipe for disaster.

IMHO Idophor & Star San are much more user friendly to your eauipment.

 

[RichBrewer]

Got to disagree with you on this one dude...unless by months you really mean hours.

What data does anyone have on this? I've heard hours, weeks, and it's good if it's still amber. I'm wondering if we are all repeating what we have heard or basing comments on proven facts.

I'm going to switch to StarSan simply because Idopher stains plastic and rubber. It is also very messy. It's almost impossible to pour from the bottle without spilling every where and making a terrible mess. Other than that, I've had no problems with Idopher. (I've saved it up to two weeks and it worked great.)
I've got about a 50 years supply of Idopher so I'm deciding if I should just make the switch or use up what I have. (A pint bottle goes a LONG way!)

 

[RichBrewer]

Rinsing with hot water defeats the purpose of sanitizing with bleach, I mean whats the point in rinsing the bucket out with hot water? Sounds like a potential recipe for disaster.

I've rinsed all my equipment in hot water and for 10 years I've never had a problem with infection.

 

[jeffg]

I've rinsed all my equipment in hot water and for 10 years I've never had a problem with infection.

Ditto. I am either really lucky or people give this way too much thought. For at least ten years now I have cleaned/sanitized plastic buckets, plastic tubing, plastic spoons, caps, airlocks and basically anything plastic in bleach (two tsp per 5 gallons), soaking anywhere from an hour to overnight, and rinsing with first hot and then cold tap water. I have never had an infection, flat beer, off-flavors etc.

Glass and stainless I sanitize with idophor. The day I empty a glass carboy I always soak it overnight in b-brite to lift off the deposits--nine out of ten times I do not even need to use a carboy brush--and then I sanitize with idophor on brew day.

The only problem I have is a mental one when I use idophor on plastic--I feel like if the stain can get into the plastic it can get into my beer, although that is probably not the case.

I've never heard of this other stuff but it sounds like it is worth trying.
Like all things in brewing, do whatever works for you.

 

[Glibbidy]

I've rinsed all my equipment in hot water and for 10 years I've never had a problem with infection.

Me too, until a PRO I know said why risk it ?

I never had a problem with bleach either. I decided to switch to Iodophor since it was more environmentally friendly then bleach. I guess I should consider migrating to Star-san since it is more environmentally freindly then both bleach and iodophor. It would be the Green thing to do.

 

[Walker]

Rinsing with hot water defeats the purpose of sanitizing with bleach,

Nobody said they were rinsing with DIRTY water, just HOT water.

If you boil your rinse water to sanitize it, then it can be QUITE useful for rinsing bleach off of your gear while not compromising the sanitation effort.

This is how I sanitized for over 7 years of brewing. I just eventually got sick of boiling water and rinsing and switched to Iodophor.

 

[Walker]

one question:

isn't star-san the stuff that can create noxious fumes if it comes in contact with bleach? (Granted, if you have star-san, you probably won't be using bleach for anything, but....)

This was the main reason I selected Iodophor over star-san. I've been known to get pretty tipsy while brewing (imagine that!) and I didn't trust myself enough to have two potentially reactive chemicals within arms reach.

My $0.02 on Iodophor: I love it and can't see myself switching to anything else. How long does it last? I have no idea, but I don't bother trying to re-use my sanitizing solution anyway... I mix it up and use it for everything I'm doing that day, then I toss it.

-walker

 

[Baron von BeeGee]

Any bleach is too much. Again, I'll have to interject. Rinsing with hot water defeats the purpose of sanitizing with bleach, I mean whats the point in rinsing the bucket out with hot water? Sounds like a potential recipe for disaster.

IMHO Idophor & Star San are much more user friendly to your eauipment.

I'm not following. Many, many homebrewers have used bleach for sanitation purposes for years without incident. I'd say the empirical evidence suggests there's a very valid point for using it.

 

[dangermouse]

I'm not following. Many, many homebrewers have used bleach for sanitation purposes for years without incident. I'd say the empirical evidence suggests there's a very valid point for using it.

where can u get star san and idophor in the uk........i only see vwp at the lhbs which is clorine based

 

[dangermouse]

i want no rinse......................give me no rinse!!!!

 

[Ivan Lendl]

i rinse my no-rinse sanitizer (iodophor) with chlorinated water right from the tap...unless your living in chernobyl, or near 3 mile island, tap water is safe and sanitized. it has to be BY LAW.

(by sanitized i mean it contains acceptable levels of coliforms, enterics and/or other microbes)

 

[Baron von BeeGee]

where can u get star san and idophor in the uk........i only see vwp at the lhbs which is clorine based

Having only visited Heathrow for 45 minutes, I couldn't really say, but I imagine BlightyBrewer and Caplan have it all figured out by now...drop them a PM or maybe they'll pop in.

 

[cweston]

My $.02...

Anyone who reads my posts here knows that I'm just about the cheapest bastard here. So naturally, I started brewing using bleach as my sole sanitizing agent. (Well, that and some one-step that I got for free.) I rinsed with hot tap water and didn't worry about it. No infections, no chlorine tastes, no nothing.

But I switched to Iodophor and am very happy with it. It's still quite cheap (cheaper than one-step or star san), and I really like the convenience of very short contact times and no-rinse. Just for the time it takes off bottling alone, it's worth the slightly higher expense over bleach, IMHO. Yeah, it's messy and discolors plastic tubes. Oh well.

 

[El Pistolero]

What data does anyone have on this? I've heard hours, weeks, and it's good if it's still amber.

Someone posted an interview on here with the president (I think) of BTF...according to him the answer is, as long as it's still amber. For me, it loses it's color in about 12 hours, tho if it's in a white plastic bucket the staining makes it look colored for a long time after that, which IMHO is leading some to think it's still active.

 

[El Pistolero]

i rinse my no-rinse sanitizer (iodophor) with chlorinated water right from the tap...unless your living in chernobyl, or near 3 mile island, tap water is safe and sanitized. it has to be BY LAW.

(by sanitized i mean it contains acceptable levels of coliforms, enterics and/or other microbes)

Tap water is not sanitized...not according to FDA definition of sanitization anyway.

 

[Glibbidy]

Nobody said they were rinsing with DIRTY water, just HOT water.
If you boil your rinse water to sanitize it, then it can be QUITE useful for rinsing bleach off of your gear while not compromising the sanitation effort.

This is how I sanitized for over 7 years of brewing. I just eventually got sick of boiling water and rinsing and switched to Iodophor.

Um, nobody mentioned how hot the water was either.

Seems kinda labor intensive to me, as well as a waste of resources and time. I'm happy that you have had such terrific results with Iodophor.

I'm not following. Many, many homebrewers have used bleach for sanitation purposes for years without incident. I'd say the empirical evidence suggests there's a very valid point for using it.

If it works for you, and it ain't broke don't fix it. This is just my subjective opinion on this matter.

 

[Walker]

Anyone who reads my posts here knows that I'm just about the cheapest bastard here.

What!? Someone dares be a cheaper bastard than the almighty Imperial Walker!?

That's it! I'm going to stop santizing everything, re-use my specialty grains, bottle in dirty soda bottles, and cut my extract in half and substitute cane sugar for fermentables.

I'll show YOU who's cheap!

-walker

 

[Walker]

Um, nobody mentioned how hot the water was either.

does it matter?

if the water is clean, there is no harm in rinsing with it. That was my point.



-walker

 

[Glibbidy]

That's it! I'm going to stop santizing everything, re-use my specialty grains, bottle in dirty soda bottles, and cut my extract in half and substitute cane sugar for fermentables.
-walker

Isn't how budweiser is made?

 

[Walker]

Isn't how budweiser is made?

That's how it TASTES, but I am actually in awe of the precision with which AB and the other megaswill companies brew their products. Something that light in color and taste takes squeaky-clean and heavily-controlled care to produce. Any off taste at all would stick WAY out.

millions and millions of gallons of the stuff, and not a single noticable difference across batches.... amazing. Terrible beer, but amazing production process.

-walker

 

[Glibbidy]

True. pardon the cliche.

 

[dangermouse]

anyone know of any no-rinse stuff in the uk
....it bugs the be-jesus out of me rinsing everything and then again cos im paranoid some is left in

 

[Walker]

anyone know of any no-rinse stuff in the uk
....it bugs the be-jesus out of me rinsing everything and then again cos im paranoid some is left in

I would be shocked if Iodophor was not available in the UK. If I recall correctly, it is used pretty heavily on dairy farms for sanitizing equipment. Here in the states we have stores that cater to farmers and the like, and I believe you can find Iodophor at those places.

If you have similar "farm supply" stores, perhaps you could find it there.

-walker

 

[Darth Konvel]

one question:

isn't star-san the stuff that can create noxious fumes if it comes in contact with bleach? (Granted, if you have star-san, you probably won't be using bleach for anything, but....)

You are quite correct. However, I'm thinking it's only a problem if they come into contact in their concentrated (straight from bottle) forms. For my carboys, I always perform a bleach soak, followed a rinse, then a soak in star-san. I'm sure I've had the two come in contact in trace amounts and haven't had any trouble. Just don't mix them on purpose

 

[boo boo]

So what's the final word? Is star-san easier, or is iodaphor easier?

Hmmmm, let me see. Idophor, great sanitizer, stains plastic, don't last very long as an effective sanitizer, reasonably cheap.
Star-san, great sanitizer, don't stain, lasts for months if placed in a sealed container, reasonably cheap.
Idophor...safe to use on SS.
Star-san..well the jury is still out on that one but IMO as a acid based sanitizer I refrain from using it on SS.
I vote Star-san.

 

[Walker]

Hmmmm, let me see. Idophor, great sanitizer, stains plastic, don't last very long as an effective sanitizer, reasonably cheap.
Star-san, great sanitizer, don't stain, lasts for months if placed in a sealed container, reasonably cheap.
Idophor...safe to use on SS.
Star-san..well the jury is still out on that one but IMO as a acid based sanitizer I refrain from using it on SS.
I vote Star-san.

what SS items are people sanitizing? kegs?

-walker

 

[boo boo]

Yep, also I find it strange that someone would rinse off an item sanitized with a NO RINSE sanitizer. IMO of course.

 

[Walker]

Yep, also I find it strange that someone would rinse off an item sanitized with a NO RINSE sanitizer. IMO of course.

I used to do this. I had a VERY hard time convicing myself that it was OK to not rinse the gear, with my thinking being that a flush with clean water HAD to be better than leaving some chemical on the gear, regardless of how inert that chemical was.

I finally just gritted my teeth and did a batch with no rinsing any where in the process. It came out fine, saved time/hastle, and I have now relaxed about the whole thing and I don't rinse anymore.

-walker

 

[Ize]

I used to do this. I had a VERY hard time convicing myself that it was OK to not rinse the gear, with my thinking being that a flush with clean water HAD to be better than leaving some chemical on the gear, regardless of how inert that chemical was.

I finally just gritted my teeth and did a batch with no rinsing any where in the process. It came out fine, saved time/hastle, and I have now relaxed about the whole thing and I don't rinse anymore.

-walker

That seems to be my main issue on deciding which one I'm going to use...

Guess I'll have a beer and get over it....

Ize

 

[boo boo]

Yeah, me too. I still don't like the look of all that foam from Star-san but have come to realize that there isn't very much liquid in all that foam and it don't affect the taste.