BIAB using HERMS

[gizmodog51]

been brewing BIABS for about a year now and have considered the high gravity brewing company set up in 20 gallon with auto temp control.

i still am questioning the heating element in the wort for the mash & boil...how does that not release metal ions into the wort?

what about a herms set up using dual 4500 or 5500 W elements in the HLT?
that should work with getting the water hot enough to heat the water in the mash tun using the coil heat exchanger...i do realize the boil would still have to be propane fired with a 20 gallon volume.

the herms kinda kills itself since i want to do this indoors and propane is not an option indoors.
wow i just don't know which way to go....? any advice is appreciated...

GD

 

[gizmodog51]

prsently i'm investigating building a set up very much like the blitchmann power module that handles propane or natural gas. right now i'm brewing with bottle propane and have a friend with HVAC experience who has opened up a field of potential parts used in HVAC for water heaters or furnaces either self contained modules....or stand alone modules that require seperate igniters.
so far i have put together a parts list using the morebeer ranco temp controller, thermowell, a chugger pump, though i'm open to a cheaper alternative if available, and a propane water heater controller with igniter.
this will come in at about $380.00 and the blitchmann unit is $575.00 + freight & additional pump cost.

this will put me in a place to preset the mash and walk away with the controller to monitor the temps thru the ranco sensor and fire off the burner when needed to maintain set mash temps. basically a recirulate system to regulate mash temps, with the fire outside instead of in the mash tun....

GD

 

[turkeygecko]

been brewing BIABS for about a year now and have considered the high gravity brewing company set up in 20 gallon with auto temp control.

i still am questioning the heating element in the wort for the mash & boil...how does that not release metal ions into the wort?

i do realize the boil would still have to be propane fired with a 20 gallon volume.

the herms kinda kills itself since i want to do this indoors and propane is not an option indoors.
wow i just don't know which way to go....? any advice is appreciated...

GD

Not sure why you think you can't boil with electric. I'm not suggesting you buy a panel here, but this is a very nice, reputable setup that boils 20 gallon batches with one element. Batches of 30+ gallons require two elements to boil.

http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/control-panel

 

[gizmodog51]

Yes have checked out that site ...an outstanding site with tons of info dedicated to the home brewing hobby, can't ask for much more.
thanx for the tip......
GD

 

[Largus1776]

You are asking about two important safety questions that the home brew community has seemingly not fully addressed.

1) The electric heating element is sold for domestic hot water heaters. Is it safe in home brew applications?

As a general statement hot tap water is not optimal as potable water. Then one-step more, instead of heating water, the home brewer is boiling an acidic liquid containing biologically active enzymes. Could this be leaching heavy metals?

The CDC (Centers for Disease Control) advises against drinking from the hot tap. A New York Times article concludes, “THE BOTTOM LINE :Hot water from the tap should never be used for cooking or drinking.” (www.nytimes.com/2008/01/29/health/29real.html)

No company is currently selling complete RIMS tubes, rather just the housing, and subsequently the home brewer has to separately incorporate a hot water heater element. So there is not commercial validation this is safe, nor scientific study.

One home-brew supply company is about to market an electric heater, it looks to me as if they have encased the heating element in an outer layer of Stainless Steel tubing, thus likely safely avoiding these potential issues.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/bl...-rims-rocket-sneek-peak-nhc-2013-beer-420763/

It seems the safety of heater elements contacting the wort is at best unknown, and certainly worth questioning.


2) The second issue is if a mash tun modified from an insulated cooler is safe. Does the plastic leach plasticizers such as bisphenol A and other endocrine disruptors that may interfere with the body and produce adverse developmental, reproductive, neurological, and immune effects?

The coolers are generally sold for cold liquid, generally not for hot liquid.

If you look to US Government Military Specifications for hot water for coffee urns, it is (or at least was) stainless steel, not plastic.

There is one company manufacturing a high density polyethylene (HDPE) plastic Lauter Tun, this specific plastic is generally said to be safe and designated safe by the FDA.

Whereas conversely, for the modified insulated cold beverage coolers, it seems the safe application for hot wort is generally unknown, and certainly worth questioning.


I brew in stainless steel using a modified system so is that the RIMS-tube heater-element is not incorporated into the flow of the wort.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f244/biab-herms-via-outboard-rims-tube-build-458429/
I drink my own home brew because it is safe and tasty. Can the same be said about all home-brew?

 

[gizmodog51]

Excellent reasoning largus 1776, and i agree with you 100% both on the heating element & polymer migration of plastics. AKA the new car smell, IS plastic in the air...
i have been been brewig since the early 90's and have always used GLASS fermenters & stainless mash tun/boilers using external heat. i'm pushing forward with this pipe dream of an automated propane system that I can afford. i know blitchmann markets one but too expensive for my needs. i like the challenge of making good brew on simple equipment.
this temp control design is a big step for me but i feel will be a help . the parts & peices are out there in the home appliance & HVAC industry...for those interested with such a system not wanting to spend the money required for a blitchmann or supplier fabricated control unit.
cheers!
GD

 

[RM-MN]

I love how you eliminate the chance of getting something bad from the plastic in the cooler and the risks of something from the electric element that is designed for a water heater and then use glass fermenters that have know risks of physical harm and put ethanol into your body by drinking beer when ethanol has known health risks.

 

[gizmodog51]

yeah but it's CLEAN ethanol....LOL!

GD

 

[Owly055]

b
the herms kinda kills itself since i want to do this indoors and propane is not an option indoors.
wow i just don't know which way to go....? any advice is appreciated...

Why is propane not an option indoors? I have a propane furnace, a propane hot water heater, and an unvented propane heater............all indoors. You can of course use natural gas if it's having the bottle indoors that bothers you....... or run a low pressure line from your tank like everybody else does. The important thing with indoor gas of any kind is good connections, and having a valve with a thermocouple. An ordinary standing pilot furnace control valve.... or water heater control valve provides a safety good enough that they are legal to have indoors. If your flame and pilot both go out, the controller will simply shut off the propane.

I've lived with indoor propane most of my life................ Natural gas of course is not really any different.


H.W.

 

[wilconrad]

Why is propane not an option indoors?

Carbon Monoxide

 

[Largus1776]

RE: “the risks of something”. Indeed it’s all about relative risks, but lets put those into ranked order perspective.

Alcoholic consumption, in appropriate quantity, is in fact positively associated with good health, including specifically increased cardiovascular health.

Whereas plasticizers leached from plastic containers is a recognized health risk. That so many home brewers would dismiss this well accepted public health science is why I don’t drink what I don’t know.
One example sure to get your attention: plasticizers lead to low sperm count, and a likely corollary is impotence and erectile dysfunction. So who is boasting now of their plastic mash tun? (and you thought it was just the alcohol effecting you ☺ )

This should be of concern to the home brewer:
From www.igloocoolers.com/FAQs#q6
Which coolers will hold hot beverages?
“If you own an Igloo Beverage Cube with the friction-fit lid design or a Classic Stainless Steel Beverage cooler – these models can accommodate hot beverages. All other Igloo coolers are NOT recommended for use with hot liquids.”

Propane indoors is generally regarded as less than optimal. It is heavier than air, so any leaks or un-ignited gas pools in the residence, and especially unsafe in basements (e.g., a likely home brewery location). Commercially available products are designed to be reasonably safe. Many homes don’t have good alternatives and thus use propane indoors in both stoves and heaters, and the corollary is there are a number of deaths and fires because of this. Most home brewers use the garage and open the garage door for a reason. This is an elective hobby after all.

Open gas flame, PID auto ignition, 240 Volts RIMS tubes, pots of boiling water, and then of course drinking while brewing: Keep your head about you and think safety first.