biab sparge?

[beerbelay]

Having gone from extract to partial mash I am considering the baib method. I'm wondering why is there not a sparge. I understand that the mashout is going to increase extraction but if some sparge was calculated in wouldn't it be better?

 

[wilserbrewer]

Traditional BIAB uses a full volume mash and does not require a sparge. With a thorough grain crush BIAB efficiency can be quite high, especially for lower gravity worts. Some BIAB brewers sparge by dunking their grain bag in another vessel, or by sprinkling sparge water on and through the bag as it is suspended over the kettle.

 

[tophmck]

I'm in the same boat -- thinking of making the jump to all grain.

My understanding is that biab evolved because some home brewers were brainstorming on how to brew using a single vessel. So I believe the method doesn't sparge precisely because it would require using a second container.

That said, I don't think there's any reason you couldn't sparge if you wanted to bring the efficiency up a bit. In fact, that's essentially what DeathBrewer does in his Easy Stovetop method.

 

[beerbelay]

Thanks for that. I have read that before but it must of leaked out of one of my earholes. Yep thats where I'm coming from. Thanks tophmck (and Deathbrewer)

 

[LexusChris]

In the March-April 2009 BYO mag, they talk about the lack of a sparge in BIAB. It sounds like because you have your full boil volume on the grain, the qt/lb ratio is rather high, but allows for a higher conversion without a sparge. They report 75%-80% efficiency, with lower gravity beers being the most efficient.

I was also intrigued by their 'no chill' method of wort cooling. Put the hot wort into a santized plastic cube, squeeze out any air, and cap it. Wait a day (or several), then transfer to your fermenter at room temp, pitch & watch it bubble away.

Would love to try that someday!
--LexusChris

 

[johnnyc]

I just got into BIAB and have done 2 batches. Doing 5 gallon batches and 11 lbs of grain I'm getting 70% eff. Perhaps sparging would help but honestly adding 1 lb of grain is worth not having to heat another pot of water. I'm finishing a BIAB in 4 hrs. Maybe 30 minutes longer than an extract brew. I'm satisfied w/ this and probably won't go to a 2nd vessel.

 

[Bobby_M]

It's not that difficult to add a sparge. You'd just calculate your mash rate for the full volume minus like 2 gallons. Heat that extra 2 gallons of water in whatever pot you have and then dunk the grain bag in that water after the mash is done. Then combine the wort into the larger pot. I think it would add 3 minutes to the brew day. You'd probably add 3-5% more efficiency so it's a small gain for cleaning an extra pot.

 

[johnnyc]

I've got one keggle and one burner so its easier to just kill the heat for the mash and cover then fire it back up and game on. Its a little heavy to set off the burner to heat a second pot then sparge and put it back on the burner. I lose around 1 gallon to grain absorption then a little less than 2 for boil off and cold break.

 

[Bobby_M]

Yeah, I get that. You could put a couple gallons on the stove top while you're mashing in the keg depending on your logistics. You could also just fill an ale pail with 2 gallons of tap water and dunk sparge in that. There are a lot of ways to skin the cat.

 

[johnnyc]

You think you could get more sugar by sparging w/ tap water? Maybe at its hottest I guess? I hadn't considered that since I thought you'd need 170* sparge water to get anything extra from the grains.

 

[jvlpdillon]

I have been doing BIAB for a few mashes now. I sparge with the above mentioned technique of heating a couple gallons on the stove. Transfer to an Ale Pail and dunk the grain bag in for 10 minutes. I have been getting around 75%.

Slightly off topic. I actually ramp mash BIAB. To prevent the bottom from scorching I have a false bottom in the pot. This gradually raises the temp from tap temps of mid 70F's to 158F. This takes approx. 2 hours. I did this for conversion for a Wit to convert the wheat instead of a true step or decoction. This also worked for a Belgian Strong Golden which recommends this technique.

 

[Bobby_M]

You think you could get more sugar by sparging w/ tap water? Maybe at its hottest I guess? I hadn't considered that since I thought you'd need 170* sparge water to get anything extra from the grains.

Kaiser actually had success sparging with something like 130F but I'm going from memory. While the hotter temps make things a little more fluid, you'll definitely get sugar out of the deal.

 

[ghpeel]

I do a hybrid BIAB / sparge. I use a 5 gal cooler thats unmodified (no braid or spigot etc) and a 5 gal paint strainer bag from Lowes ($2). Bag goes in cooler, grain goes in bag, strike water goes over grain, then a mash. To sparge, I just lift the grain bag out, dump my "first runnings" from the cooler, put the grain bag (with grains still in it) back in the bag and add my sparge water over the grain again. Wait 10 min then pull out the bag and dump out the sparged wort from the cooler.

Works like a charm and means that I moved from extract to all grain for $22 TOTAL ($20 for cooler, $2 for bag). No recirculation needed, and the wort comes out without any husk material at all, just as if you had vourlaufed.

I like my technique and recommend it to anyone who's lazy and cheap like me.

 

[bakins]

I BIAB almost exclusively now. 75-80%. I do a mash-out - not sure it helps but it makes me feel better. I also no-chill. Makes for fairly short and stress free brewdays. Thinking of moving up to 10 gallons and I may just use extract for part, rather than getting an enormous pot. (BIAB generally requires a pot at least twice the size of the batch.) Bulk DME is about $2/lb.

 

[bhatchable]

Bulk DME is about $2/lb.

what? from where?

 

[bakins]

what? from where?

North Country Malt. Brewers in our area do a group buy a few times a year, so I just add a 50lb bag onto the orders.

 

[jldc]

I do a hybrid BIAB / sparge. I use a 5 gal cooler thats unmodified (no braid or spigot etc) and a 5 gal paint strainer bag from Lowes ($2). Bag goes in cooler, grain goes in bag, strike water goes over grain, then a mash. To sparge, I just lift the grain bag out, dump my "first runnings" from the cooler, put the grain bag (with grains still in it) back in the bag and add my sparge water over the grain again. Wait 10 min then pull out the bag and dump out the sparged wort from the cooler.

Works like a charm and means that I moved from extract to all grain for $22 TOTAL ($20 for cooler, $2 for bag). No recirculation needed, and the wort comes out without any husk material at all, just as if you had vourlaufed.

I like my technique and recommend it to anyone who's lazy and cheap like me.

This is essentially what I do. I use the large Austin Homebrew bag and I've done as much as 14 lbs of grain without any problem (in a 10 gallon cooler). I usually end up at 80% efficiency (+/-2%) with a double sparge of the bagged grains. I've spent a few more dollars and have a second cooler that holds the sparge water so I can drain the Mash Tun into the brew kettle and start heating it during the sparging process. This knocks about 30 min off the brew day. Another plus about the bags is that I doubt a stuck sparge is possible.

 

[RobbyBeers]

I am intrigued by you guys' cooler/BIAB idea. It seems like a good way to bypass the problem of pot/batch size. With my setup right now, I can only mash about 6 pounds of grain.

However, the first time I ever did BIAB, I tried adding the grain bag all at once to the mash water and I got a huge dough ball that I spent :20 trying to break up.

I have a feeling I might get the same result if I just poured the mash water over top of a full grain bag.

If a lot of that dough stays dry in the middle, and I suspect it might because it packs itself pretty tight, then your efficiency will surely suffer.

 

[Bobby_M]

If your bag and vessel are big enough, you drape the edges of the bag over the walls of the pot or cooler and put some quick clamps on. Now you can stir the grain and water together as if the bag weren't there.

 

[RobbyBeers]

Sweet thanks. Just wasn't picturing it that way.

 

[jldc]

If your bag and vessel are big enough, you drape the edges of the bag over the walls of the pot or cooler and put some quick clamps on. Now you can stir the grain and water together as if the bag weren't there.

You need a big bag. The BIAB folks say the bag should be big enough to put the pot (or cooler in this case) entirely inside the bag. Mine is almost, but not quite, this big.

 

[zakleeright]

Last weekend, I just jumped from extract/steeping grains to partial mash, using DeathBrewer's method - tres cool!! I made a stout recipe and my efficiency was higher than the guy at my LHBS thought. Using the calcs from "Designing Great Beers", I determined I only needed 3 of the 4 lbs of DME he gave me. I highly recommend you checkout DB's thread on that stovetop method. I'll be bottling that stout in two weeks, and have high hopes for it.
cheers

 

[hlumbard]

What would stop you from doing BIAB for all grain, not just partial? I'm sure I'm missing something. This is the first I've heard of BIAB.

 

[ghpeel]

This is essentially what I do.

Glad to hear that you do the same as me. I don't hear of many people doing this technique, and I can't understand why. I see a lot of posts about people bragging about how cheap they can get into all grain with a braided hose and converted cooler, but I'm like, why even bother with the hose?

For me, the grain bags that I found were not fine enough to really strain out all husk materials, but I haven't seen the one you mentioned in person.

My five gal paint strainer hangs just right in my 5 gal cooler, but I usually prop it up from the bottom about an inch with a saucer just to give the bag some support. If the bag is too heavy, the top of the bag will slip off the rim of the cooler, which is annoying, but not a huge deal.

I've never pushed the limits of my system beyond 10lbs or so, but I have no problem thinking that its possible to do 13-14lbs if you are careful. One thing I notice is that with 10lbs of grain, my single batch sparge comes right up to the rim of the cooler without overflowing, so you might need to split the sparge into 2 if you are short on space.

And yeah, stuck sparges are basically impossible. Did a pumpkin ale with 60oz of roasted pumpkin goo in the mash and didn't have a stuck sparge.

 

[RobbyBeers]

I've been doing BIAB for a while now, so this idea made instant sense to me. I went out and got me a 5 gallon Homer cooler last night and I'm giving it a go right now.

I've been happy with BIAB, but I had been looking to do a cooler conversion, just to learn the technique. Now I'm wondering what's the point? This is the best of both worlds. Easier than managing grains on the stovetop, plus no sparge problems.

 

[bakins]

What would stop you from doing BIAB for all grain, not just partial? I'm sure I'm missing something. This is the first I've heard of BIAB.

Sure, you can do it for all-grain.

 

[mychalg9]

What size pot would I need for the BIAB method, assuming 5 gallon recipe?

 

[jvlpdillon]

I use an 8 gallon pot most of my 5 gallon batches are made with about 12-13 lbs of grain.

 

[Reelale]

Rule of thumb would say 10 Gallon pot for 5 gallon batch. You'd need about 8 gallons of water initially to insure about 6.5 gallons for the boil.

 

[mychalg9]

Thanks for the quick responses! I have a 7.5 gal but I will try to upgrade to a 10 gal asap.