BIAB Question

[el_caro]

My question relates to efficiency of different methods.

From my reading, there seems to be predominantly 3 BIAB methods employed.

1. Mash for 60mins in lower volumes of water much like conventional 3V brewing then dunk sparge for 10 mins in separate vessel with the balance of the water.

2. Dispense with the sparge completely and just mash in the full volume of water for around 90mins.

3. Mash in full volume of water for 60mins then do a mash out at say 170°F for 10mins.

Obviously if one has size of pot restraints they may choose method 1. above.

Is efficiency the only likely difference?
Which is likely to consistently produce the better efficiency?

 

[shortyjacobs]

1) Is basically "deconstructed" single batch sparging. It probably stands the best chance of high efficiency, since you are rinsing grain with fresh water, so you'll collect more sugar by not diluting the "first runnings". Your wort holdup will be of the more dilute "sparge" water, so you'll get more sugar in the pot.

2 and 3 are basically the same, only there's a mashout in #3. With both, you have a theoretical efficiency limit of 70-75%, based on a simple calculation of absorbed/held up wort at target preboil SG. #3 might be slightly better, as there might be a bit less holdup in the grain since the wort will be a BIT more fluid and less sticky, but honestly it will probably be operator/system differences that change efficiency between 2 and 3.

 

[commonsenseman]

I use the first method, not because of size restraints, but because of efficiency.

 

[Seven]

I no longer measure my efficiency when brewing... but when I did I got 80+ percent efficiency with #3 each time.

Your mileage may vary depending on your equipment, etc.

 

[1MadScientist]

I no longer measure my efficiency when brewing... but when I did I got 80+ percent efficiency with #3 each time.

Your mileage may vary depending on your equipment, etc.

+1 on #3.

Once at 168-170 I pull the bag without waiting 10 minutes. Squeezing the bag is important too for efficiency sake, 80+ all the time. Squeeze it dry, if you can. Squeezing is allowed on #3.

 

[Psych]

I use option 3 all the time and if my crush is proper, I hit 83% typically (across four batches since getting a proper mill).

I've tried adding a dunk sparge in some additional water and that didn't pull anything else out so I don't bother with that.

I do squeeze the grain bag like it's going out of style though, and sometimes do this without doing a mashout, you can squeeze on anything...

 

[gwcr]

I use #1, but use a higher volume of water than traditional (about 2-2.5qt/lb) and dunk sparge in the balance. Hit 83% on the last 2. Hopefully that stays consistent. Only reason I measure efficiency is so my recipes can be consistent batch to batch.

 

[Xaphoeous]

I used #1 last time I brewed and hit only 60%. I will try #3 next time. I always thought squeezing the grains was a no-no due to funky flavors being released by squeezing. Is this not true? Is that hops I'm thinking of?

Thanks for any insight you can offer...

 

[jlachesk]

I used #1 last time I brewed and hit only 60%. I will try #3 next time. I always thought squeezing the grains was a no-no due to funky flavors being released by squeezing. Is this not true? Is that hops I'm thinking of?

Thanks for any insight you can offer...

I think you're referring to tannin extraction from squeezing, but I'm pretty sure that's been debunked by quite a few BIAB'ers. Not sure of all the science behind tannin extraction, but squeezing is common practice with BIAB, and lots of good beers are brewed with it.

 

[samc]

Squeezing grain or hops is fine. Tannin is more of a temp/ph issue. Squeeze on!

 

[solbes]

#1 for me and 80-83%. There is definitely a fair amount of sugar in that sparge water, and I'm not going to mess with the process by eliminating that step.

I figure I get a little more efficiency with the dunk sparge (maybe 5-10%). I don't really lose any time either, since it takes awhile for the kettle to start boiling. As soon as I lift the grains out to sparge, I crank the propane on the kettle. It's usually ~ 200 F by the time I combine the sparge water with the mash 10 minutes later. Another 5-10 minutes and the whole thing is boiling away.

 

[pianobrew]

I don't see how a dunk would change anything. Some people claim and increase in efficiency but other factor can influence a couple of points. The whole reason you don't "sparge" in BIAB is because you are actually sparing at the same time that you are resting and mashing out.

 

[pianobrew]

I don't see how a dunk would change anything. Some people claim and increase in efficiency but other factor can influence a couple of points. The whole reason you don't "sparge" in BIAB is because you are actually sparing at the same time that you are resting and mashing out.

*sparging

 

[pianobrew]

Plus (sorry for the multiple threads), the whole idea of BIAB is one vessel brewing.

 

[el_caro]

Plus (sorry for the multiple threads), the whole idea of BIAB is one vessel brewing.

Not sure that is really the whole idea of BIAB. Personally I wonder if GIAB (Grain in a Bag) Brewing might be more appropriate name.

Interestingly of the responses so far none have indicated that they have used #2 method which is one that the BIABrewer.info site suggests (Mini BIAB method).

So far it seems method #1 is more commonly used than #3 with both reporting efficiencies in excess of 80% being achieved.

I have only ever used method #1 (due to equipment restraints) and unfortunately did not calculate efficiency. Having just obtained a larger pot I now have the option of using method #2 or #3 and that is why I am curious to know what others are doing and what efficiency they get.

 

[henryred]

i use a bag/mash method. i use one of my bottling buckets install sparge bag, add grain, mix in mash water, mix, mix, mix. Then wrap with a balanket for the 60 minutes. Mixing probably twice. Then draining off and sparging. This way u move into batch sparging fairly easy and cheapliy. With my own mill and this method I get a 83% efficency. And no squeezing the bag or holding it up. Actually twist top of bag and wrap around handle. What i have left I use for starter on next batch.

 

[1MadScientist]

Interestingly of the responses so far none have indicated that they have used #2 method which is one that the BIABrewer.info site suggests (Mini BIAB method).

Certainly #3 is the cat's meow based on the 'Master Guide' and Pat's interview (podcast), if you don't have limitations.

Mini, Maxi or any variation thereof works. Which do you use?

 

[Xaphoeous]

I think you're referring to tannin extraction from squeezing, but I'm pretty sure that's been debunked by quite a few BIAB'ers. Not sure of all the science behind tannin extraction, but squeezing is common practice with BIAB, and lots of good beers are brewed with it.

Ah, thank you for the reply! I will certainly try the ol' bag-squeeze next time I brew...might even try squeezing the grain bag

Cleveland: "oh Quagmire, you're naaasty"

 

[warex]

I was at a brig brew off the other bay. Five of us were using some sort of BIAB. the funny thing was all of us had our own way and none of us were doing it the same.

 

[mychalg9]

For my 2.5 gallon batches I mash in 3 gallons of water, then heat the remaining 1 gal to a little over 170 degrees and ladle it over the bag (hanging over my pot) with a small saucepan. My second pot is not big enough to dunk in. I seem to get about 70% efficiency so far

 

[el_caro]

Five of us were using some sort of BIAB. the funny thing was all of us had our own way and none of us were doing it the same.

Did you form any conclusions about efficiency from the observing the different methods?

 

[warex]

No. several of us didn't check OG. The two that did were adding extract to make up for too small of pots. What I thought was interesting that something as simple as mashing in a bag and then boiling wort could be done in so many different ways.

 

[porterguy]

If you have your grains ground finer you'll get better efficiency, too. And since it's BIAB, there's no stuck sparge to worry about. I'm in the 90 minute mash, and squeeze like crazy.

 

[el_caro]

If you have your grains ground finer you'll get better efficiency, too. And since it's BIAB, there's no stuck sparge to worry about. I'm in the 90 minute mash, and squeeze like crazy.

I have read reports about finer grain giving better efficiency.
Do you mashout or sparge? Are you a #2 method? Have you calculated % efficiency?

 

[stux]

Well, I'm getting 99.5% conversion efficiency anyway, not much room to improve there.

a No Sparge Full Volume BIAB will get you about 83% into the boil efficiency if you squeeze the bag.

You could sparge and maybe reduce your grain requirements by half a pound or something...

But once you go no-sparge, you realize what a PITA a sparge step is

Its only when you try to do a Maxi brew that a sparge really comes into its own as you will be bumping your Into Boil efficiency from 60-70% to 80%

The BIABrewer.info method is :

1) Full Volume Mash for 90 minutes. Because the mash is thinner, it can take longer to convert
2) Mashout + Squeeze. Helps efficiency
3) Boil for 90 minutes. More boil-off gives you more Mash water which gets you more efficiency too.

This will get you about 83% Into Boil for normal gravity 5 gallon brews.

 

[el_caro]

The BIABrewer.info method is :

1) Full Volume Mash for 90 minutes. Because the mash is thinner, it can take longer to convert
2) Mashout + Squeeze. Helps efficiency
3) Boil for 90 minutes. More boil-off gives you more Mash water which gets you more efficiency too.

This will get you about 83% Into Boil for normal gravity 5 gallon brews.

I have looked at the two examples(Ralph's) shown on BIABrewer.info an must confess I cannot see anything about a mash-out? In the second method he sparges by pouring water from a kettle over the bag into a bucket but in the first demo there is no mention of sparge or mashout.

 

[stux]

From "The Commentary"
http://www.biabrewer.info/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=190

"After the recommended 90 minutes, our mash ends. The brewer then has two options. They can remove the bag immediately and then raise the temperature of the sweet liquor to boiling point or they can leave the bag in and perform what is known as a mashout."

 

[porterguy]

I have read reports about finer grain giving better efficiency.
Do you mashout or sparge? Are you a #2 method? Have you calculated % efficiency?

I've done BIAB both mashout and sparge, but now that I finally got a bigger pot, I'm just doing a full boil (#2) to eliminate some extra steps and extra clean-up.
About 84% efficiency.

 

[RM-MN]

1) Full Volume Mash for 90 minutes. Because the mash is thinner, it can take longer to convert

I question this. If I have my grain ground fine, the conversion occurs quicker than the normal mash, not slower. I mash for the full 60 minutes but there are indications that the conversion has occurred in about 15 minutes when the wort goes from cloudy to clear and tastes sweet. I should take a sample then and do an iodine test but haven't bothered picking up the iodine yet.

 

[samc]

I've done 45, 60 & 90 minute BIAB without the slightest bit of difference, other than wasting some extra time. YMMV.