BIAB general questions and critiques

[bondra76]

Looking to improve my processes and wanted to reach out to everyone on a bunch of different questions. I am brewing a coconut/chocolate imperial porter today and I'm trying to further enhance my process.

My brewhouse efficiency is at 71% over the last 3 or so batches. Anyways with that...

1) How long do you mash for on a bigger ABV? I noticed my mash started to really kick in at about an hour into it. For something like an imperial (1.089 Est. PreBoil Gravity) is it common to go past 60 minutes? I went 90 with this one. I had some pale ale malt as my base (17 lbs) and a lot of other speciality grains (chocolate, red wheat, etc..)

2) I did notice a .05 bump in my gravity once I went to mash out at 168. My first thought - well I stopped mash too early. But when I was mashing I took a gravity reading 3 times over 15 minutes and got the same result. Is this common to see a small spike to gravity during mash out? (I know some BIAB folks don't even do this step)

3) I noticed my gravity numbers during mash really propped up once I took the lid off and controlled my heat manually (essentially babysitting the thing and stirring every 2-5 minutes). I guess this is just an observation more than anything else, but makes me think the HERMS/RIMS route is the way to go for temp control. I must be doing a poor job at temp control

4) I have noticed that my efficiency level has gone down from 75%-80% to 71%-75% since I switched to a distilled water + brewing salts process (using the water profile tool in Beersmith). I tend to do a lot of English/Scottish brews so I am adding gypsum, caco3, baking soda, etc....Has anyone else experienced this? I am adding my salts during when I mash in....I have made 0 adjustments for PH and maybe that's where I am missing the ball? I live in CO (fairly hard water) but the distilled I get at the store may not be as hard maybe? I forget the PH of distilled...

5) I am using a refractometer - the amazon $25 bit - for my readings. I am realizing with BIAB and stratification my refractometer ratings are ALL over the board. Do people use refractometers a lot in their mash? I am considering switching back to my hydrometer for mash and to refractometer for pulling wort on FG readings (just as not to waste much of the good stuff...)

6) Does anyone use a Chugger center inlet pump for recirculating their BIAB setup? If so, would you be willing to share your thoughts/setup with me, including how you put together your fittings? I have a chugger right now that serves as a $120 stainless paper weight. I've heard recircing a BIAB batch can cause stuck mashes to happen too - is that true?


Thanks in advance for any input you can give me on any of these questions.

 

[mkyl428]

I can't answer all your questions, however I regularly see 75-80% efficiency with my BIAB, and I build my water with distilled & salts. I can tell you I always do a 90 min mash many prople may say it isn't necessary, & it may not be, but I use this time to get other things ready for later, to surf HBT & usually to get something to eat. I try to stir & check temps every 15 min or so.

Crush on your grain is BIG when it comes to efficiency I don't own a mill, but I always have the LHBS double mill my grain. Also I have heard both arguments on mash out I always do one I tried it with out & my efficiency dropped some YMMV. I do 170°F mash out for 10-15 min stir well then pull the bag.

I can not say about refractometers I use a hydrometer, however I have heard that they are unreliable for FG readings b/c the alcohol will throw it off.

I also cannot comment on pumps, I just use a pot, a bag, & a propane burner.

 

[soccerdad]

Others here are probably smarter and more experienced than I

with that caveat ..

1) How long do you mash for on a bigger ABV? I noticed my mash started to really kick in at about an hour into it. For something like an imperial (1.089 Est. PreBoil Gravity) is it common to go past 60 minutes? I went 90 with this one. I had some pale ale malt as my base (17 lbs) and a lot of other speciality grains (chocolate, red wheat, etc..)

the guys over at biabrewer are big 90 minute mash proponents ... I notice small bumps as each 20 min goes by

2) I did notice a .05 bump in my gravity once I went to mash out at 168. My first thought - well I stopped mash too early. But when I was mashing I took a gravity reading 3 times over 15 minutes and got the same result. Is this common to see a small spike to gravity during mash out? (I know some BIAB folks don't even do this step)

I usually do not do a mash out step - unless my numbers seem low - in which case I do and usually get another 4 to 5 points

3) I noticed my gravity numbers during mash really propped up once I took the lid off and controlled my heat manually (essentially babysitting the thing and stirring every 2-5 minutes). I guess this is just an observation more than anything else, but makes me think the HERMS/RIMS route is the way to go for temp control. I must be doing a poor job at temp control

??? never even thought of the lid off when mashing - unless I overshot the strike and want to cool before the grist goes in

4) I have noticed that my efficiency level has gone down from 75%-80% to 71%-75% since I switched to a distilled water + brewing salts process (using the water profile tool in Beersmith). I tend to do a lot of English/Scottish brews so I am adding gypsum, caco3, baking soda, etc....Has anyone else experienced this? I am adding my salts during when I mash in....I have made 0 adjustments for PH and maybe that's where I am missing the ball? I live in CO (fairly hard water) but the distilled I get at the store may not be as hard maybe? I forget the PH of distilled...

I would try a finer crush

5) I am using a refractometer - the amazon $25 bit - for my readings. I am realizing with BIAB and stratification my refractometer ratings are ALL over the board. Do people use refractometers a lot in their mash? I am considering switching back to my hydrometer for mash and to refractometer for pulling wort on FG readings (just as not to waste much of the good stuff...)

I prefer a refractometer on brew day and only hydro after yeast is pitched .. but that's just me .. I always figure the hydro to be more accurate

6) Does anyone use a Chugger center inlet pump for recirculating their BIAB setup?

not me

 

[TexasWine]

Looking to improve my processes and wanted to reach out to everyone on a bunch of different questions. I am brewing a coconut/chocolate imperial porter today and I'm trying to further enhance my process.

My brewhouse efficiency is at 71% over the last 3 or so batches. Anyways with that...

1) How long do you mash for on a bigger ABV? I noticed my mash started to really kick in at about an hour into it. For something like an imperial (1.089 Est. PreBoil Gravity) is it common to go past 60 minutes? I went 90 with this one. I had some pale ale malt as my base (17 lbs) and a lot of other speciality grains (chocolate, red wheat, etc..)

2) I did notice a .05 bump in my gravity once I went to mash out at 168. My first thought - well I stopped mash too early. But when I was mashing I took a gravity reading 3 times over 15 minutes and got the same result. Is this common to see a small spike to gravity during mash out? (I know some BIAB folks don't even do this step)

3) I noticed my gravity numbers during mash really propped up once I took the lid off and controlled my heat manually (essentially babysitting the thing and stirring every 2-5 minutes). I guess this is just an observation more than anything else, but makes me think the HERMS/RIMS route is the way to go for temp control. I must be doing a poor job at temp control

4) I have noticed that my efficiency level has gone down from 75%-80% to 71%-75% since I switched to a distilled water + brewing salts process (using the water profile tool in Beersmith). I tend to do a lot of English/Scottish brews so I am adding gypsum, caco3, baking soda, etc....Has anyone else experienced this? I am adding my salts during when I mash in....I have made 0 adjustments for PH and maybe that's where I am missing the ball? I live in CO (fairly hard water) but the distilled I get at the store may not be as hard maybe? I forget the PH of distilled...

5) I am using a refractometer - the amazon $25 bit - for my readings. I am realizing with BIAB and stratification my refractometer ratings are ALL over the board. Do people use refractometers a lot in their mash? I am considering switching back to my hydrometer for mash and to refractometer for pulling wort on FG readings (just as not to waste much of the good stuff...)

6) Does anyone use a Chugger center inlet pump for recirculating their BIAB setup? If so, would you be willing to share your thoughts/setup with me, including how you put together your fittings? I have a chugger right now that serves as a $120 stainless paper weight. I've heard recircing a BIAB batch can cause stuck mashes to happen too - is that true?


Thanks in advance for any input you can give me on any of these questions.

No expert, but here's my take on a few of your items.

1. 30 minutes. Just brewed an 8% abv IIPA a few weeks ago. Hit 88% efficiency and attenuation was spot on. Haven't brewed anything bigger than that.

3. I either insulate really well or throw it in the oven to hold temps. I don't have any need to make it more complicated than that.

4. My efficiency went up when I switched to doing RO water plus salts, but I think it had more to do with the fact that I started crushing finer at that same time.

5. Your refractometer should be fine as long as it's calibrated. The problem you're describing has nothing to do with the limitations of the hardware and everything to do with the process. Make sure to give everything a good stir before drawing a sample. And as someone already pointed out, you'll need to do some corrections if you use it for your FG because of the alcohol present.

 

[bondra76]

Thanks for the comments

I think I may go out and get another hydrometer. And I know that my LHBS's grain crush is set to a pretty wide setting. Lots of idiots have screwed around with that crusher and now he just has it locked in at one point for everyone. Come to think of it, since he loosened it up now I am getting the inefficiencies (despite milling the grain twice through). I asked for my own mill for christmas so we'll see how that goes.

I am actually thinking I might always mash for 90 with the lid off from now on and just watch the temps. Oven isn't an option for me because Im doing large batches.

 

[DeeEnvy]

I also mash for 90 min and no mashout and hit the numbers fairly well.

Just one note. Distilled water is perfectly soft with no minerals present, and it has a PH of exactly 7, theoretically. As with RO water, you will have to add some conditioning agents.

 

[monkeyman1000]

I am also not an expert on this either but having been doing BIAB for about 2 years now. I do a full volume mash, stove top for about 1.75 to 2.5 gallons (thanks to the Hot Rod I am doing 2.5 gallons from now on).
I started with the 90 minute mash then went to 60 and now I do 30-45 minutes. I don't brew big beers very often and even then My biggest has only been around 8%. When I did 90 minute mashes I checked the gravity every 20 minutes or so and past 45 minutes I was only getting a couple more points, maybe. Wasn't worth the extra 45 -60 minutes of my time. I also use the BIABacus from BIABrewer which I find to be a great tool. I breaks efficiency down into efficiency into boil, efficiency of ambient wort and efficiency into fermentor. My numbers for the first two are usually high 80's to low 90s and the last one is usually high 80s.
I don't do a mashout usually just bc of my set up. I tried it a few times and I did get a small bump in gravity points but not enough that I worried about it.
A lot of people like the HERMS/RIMS route but I am too lazy and cheap. I do however check my temps often (every 10 minutes or so with a Thermapen) and stir well before I take my reading.
I started paying attention to water the beginning of this year and got a pH meter. I use RO water and I use Bru'n water and Brewer's Friend to build my water. I'm not sure my efficiencies went way up or anything but my beer tastes much, much better.
I just started with the refractometer too. It is pretty close to my hydrometer readings but you have to calibrate it. You should also check your hydrometer for accuracy to. There are instructions on HBT somewhere for how to do that.
I also took the recommendations of a few people on here and got a Corona mill and crush my grains very fine. So far I have been hitting my projected gravity numbers ( OG and FG). Good luck and don't stress yourself out. Whatever you make will be drinkable and you will have more fun if you don't stress yourself out.

Looking to improve my processes and wanted to reach out to everyone on a bunch of different questions. I am brewing a coconut/chocolate imperial porter today and I'm trying to further enhance my process.

My brewhouse efficiency is at 71% over the last 3 or so batches. Anyways with that...

1) How long do you mash for on a bigger ABV? I noticed my mash started to really kick in at about an hour into it. For something like an imperial (1.089 Est. PreBoil Gravity) is it common to go past 60 minutes? I went 90 with this one. I had some pale ale malt as my base (17 lbs) and a lot of other speciality grains (chocolate, red wheat, etc..)

2) I did notice a .05 bump in my gravity once I went to mash out at 168. My first thought - well I stopped mash too early. But when I was mashing I took a gravity reading 3 times over 15 minutes and got the same result. Is this common to see a small spike to gravity during mash out? (I know some BIAB folks don't even do this step)


3) I noticed my gravity numbers during mash really propped up once I took the lid off and controlled my heat manually (essentially babysitting the thing and stirring every 2-5 minutes). I guess this is just an observation more than anything else, but makes me think the HERMS/RIMS route is the way to go for temp control. I must be doing a poor job at temp control


4) I have noticed that my efficiency level has gone down from 75%-80% to 71%-75% since I switched to a distilled water + brewing salts process (using the water profile tool in Beersmith). I tend to do a lot of English/Scottish brews so I am adding gypsum, caco3, baking soda, etc....Has anyone else experienced this? I am adding my salts during when I mash in....I have made 0 adjustments for PH and maybe that's where I am missing the ball? I live in CO (fairly hard water) but the distilled I get at the store may not be as hard maybe? I forget the PH of distilled...



5) I am using a refractometer - the amazon $25 bit - for my readings. I am realizing with BIAB and stratification my refractometer ratings are ALL over the board. Do people use refractometers a lot in their mash? I am considering switching back to my hydrometer for mash and to refractometer for pulling wort on FG readings (just as not to waste much of the good stuff...)



6) Does anyone use a Chugger center inlet pump for recirculating their BIAB setup? If so, would you be willing to share your thoughts/setup with me, including how you put together your fittings? I have a chugger right now that serves as a $120 stainless paper weight. I've heard recircing a BIAB batch can cause stuck mashes to happen too - is that true?



Thanks in advance for any input you can give me on any of these questions.

 

[bondra76]

Thanks monkey

I think the biggest change I can make at this point may be the mill. Ever since my LHBS readjusted the mill (or got a new one maybe) my efficiency has gone down.

Like I said I am using distilled but added salts - chalk, gypsum, baking soda, etc...I'm doing it based off Beersmith's water profile calculator. I have considered buying a PH meter but is it even worth it if you're using a water calculator?

I think I am going to do 90 min mashes from here on out until i get a new mill. I think I may pick up some iodine as well to really know when the starches have converted.

This is all nitpick stuff, but I just want to improve moreso than what I am doing right now.

 

[monkeyman1000]

Good question about the pH meter. I like having one just to double check the spreadsheets. They usually get me close enough to trust them after doing measurements over the past year but I still like having it. I get different results between the 2 different ones I use ( used to use a third one but it was always reading high for me). You definitely aren't hurting anything doing the longer mash. I don't think that there have been many experiments with a side by side comparison of shorter mashes with longer mashes, mostly anecdotal, but like I said, my numbers have been close enough and I haven't noticed a taste difference yet with the shorter mashes. I also like that I have been able to shorten my brew day down to 3.5 hours too.