BIAB Electric Brewing System

[kzimmer0817]

Thanks, SpacemanSpiff for responding. I'm sure I'll have more questions related to this system, so I don't think we'll be hijacking sippin37's thread. He may end up purchasing one, himself.

Getting ready for batch #2 today. Here was my experience on the first go:

2. Recirc worked perfectly and I think that directly relates to #1. From the little I've seen in some of the threads I guess the argument against doing a recirc is that you can hold temps to within a few degrees anyway if you have some insulation or if you're willing to monitor the mash and direct fire if needed. I get it and used to mash that way also. But with the recirc and the probe at the top of that loop, I can essentially set the mash temp and walk away. I don't see a downside to it. . .

The reason I asked was because several e-BIABers have abandoned recirculation. I think there was a thread on this and it might have been related to the use of the basket. Apparently, the pump tried to draw faster than the wort would flow thru and out of the basket causing burning around the element. It was recommended that the valve after the pump be closed down to limit the flow. Some punched larger holes in their baskets with varying results. I think it was mentioned that the little sprayer at the end of this particular system acted to limit the flow. I'm not sure about the guys who to e-BIAB without the basket.

3. I thought the basket worked great. . . I'm still trying to figure out how to squeeze out the rest though as I didn't want to push on this cocked basket and have it fall back in the pot and splash everywhere. . .

I would plan to use a pulley as others have recommended to lift the basket/bag or slip an oven rack over the top of the kettle on which to rest the basket. You could set a 10 lb weight on top of the grain to help squeeze more wort out.

4. I stuck with my IC and had no issues. . . Then just runoff into a bucket and dump it. Here's where that recirc comes in with a bonus because I kept it running during the recirc and that keeps the wort moving across the coils and really sped up the cooling. I really didn't have to bother with a lot of stirring or sloshing the coil around and that helped the trub drop out nicely for when it was time to transfer.

I hadn't thought of that. Thanks.

5. Another bonus for the recirc in cleanup. After a quick flush with hot water to get out the big chunks, I made up about 3 gallons of hot Oxi and just let it recirc for 20 minutes or so. After that there were just a few spots in the pot that I had to hit a little harder by hand and I also had to work a little more on the basket. Overall, it was pretty simple though.

I hadn't thought of that, either.

BTW, are you using a bag made from Swiss Voile? I think the High Gravity video mentioned the included Nylon bag. I think the guys who had trouble with flow thru their bag-in-a-basket combo were using bags made from the fine meshed voile. It might be that the nylon mesh bag has larger pores so that wort flows thru more quickly. I'd like to hear from those who end up using this system with bags made from the finer voile.

Thanks, again, for answering my questions. If this works well for all of y'all, I may end up purchasing one myself instead of building a system.

Keith

 

[Sippin37]

Thanks, SpacemanSpiff for responding. I'm sure I'll have more questions related to this system, so I don't think we'll be hijacking sippin37's thread. He may end up purchasing one, himself.

Dont you worry about this, the more info the better IMO. Plus, I'm not sure if I'll be able to get this system now as the house we are purchasing only has 100 amp service and the panel doesn't have any room left in it. We shall see. But keep the info coming.

 

[YNOT2K]

if FedEx does what it says it will, i'll be running a test on my 62 qt system next weekend. i'll post pics and results then.

 

[NWMushroom]

Planning a test run with water in an hour or so and if all goes well I'll also be brewing today. Picked up a plate chiller and a grill top to rest the basket on when draining so I can give it a squeeze. Also got a kitchen cart from IKEA to keep it all on. I'll try to take some pictures.

 

[kzimmer0817]

Planning a test run with water in an hour or so and if all goes well I'll also be brewing today. Picked up a plate chiller and a grill top to rest the basket on when draining so I can give it a squeeze. Also got a kitchen cart from IKEA to keep it all on. I'll try to take some pictures.

I forget, does a bag come with the setup? I had asked a question before about the type of bag. The BIAB gurus always talk of the voile bag which is very fine mesh. The laundry and paint strainer bags have a coarser weave, so they drain more quickly. Several folks who used to BIAB with recirculation have abandoned this due to the bags in the baskets not draining fast enough to keep up with the pump. Looking forward to hearing of your experience.

Thanks,
Keith

 

[SpacemanSpiff]

I forget, does a bag come with the setup? I had asked a question before about the type of bag. The BIAB gurus always talk of the voile bag which is very fine mesh. The laundry and paint strainer bags have a coarser weave, so they drain more quickly. Several folks who used to BIAB with recirculation have abandoned this due to the bags in the baskets not draining fast enough to keep up with the pump. Looking forward to hearing of your experience.

Thanks,
Keith

It does come with a bag and it is more like the paint strainer bags in terms of the weave. It is effective at draining and I had no issue with the recirc. I meant to update on my last batch because I did have an issue with that one. I have a couple of the laundry bags with the tighter weave that I had from my old setup. I liked these because they feel more durable and they have the adjustable drawstring. So I used one for my mash on this last run and did have problems starving the pump. I was able to make an adjustment to the bag by essentially pulling it out of the pot more and that seemed to help the recirc. The temp control wasn't very good though as it seemed to vary up and down by 3 or more degrees. It was a pain.

So based on our earlier posts, this experience has me convinced it has nothing to do with the basket and everything to do with the weave of the bag. The holes in the basket are probably 1/2" in diameter and I just don't see that being a constraint. Makes me wish I had ordered a few extras of the paint strainer type. I'm not sure how easy 15 gallon paint strainer bags are to find. It does the job, but I am a little concerned on how many batches it will last.

 

[NWMushroom]

Well the first test run was a mixed bag. You'll DEFINITELY want to do a test run with water before brew day. In my case, virtually all my connections leaked and needed extra teflon tape and extreme tightening!

Brewing indoors turned into a lost cause - unless you enjoy living in a steam room!

I don't want to install a dedicated extractor hood so I'll be going back to brewing outside. Fortunately I have a dryer outlet in the basement that is close enough to the outside door, so I should be able to brew there.

Therefore, I need to do another dry run outside tomorrow before I feel comfortable/confident enough to run a real brew through it.

It's a lot of 'new' for me - first time with electric brewing, first time with a pump, first time with a plate chiller. Lots to learn... hopefully I'll get the hang of it soon!

 

[YNOT2K]

Good post - I'll definitely do a test run before brewing.

I plan on brewing in my garage, so no problem with steam there.

Looking forward to pics from NWMushroom...

 

[YNOT2K]

my system arrive from HighGravity and i have to say i'm a bit disappointed.

there are some issues. i sent a message to HGB to voice my concerns. i will report back here with updates.

no wet test for me this weekend.

 

[P-J]

my system arrive from HighGravity and i have to say i'm a bit disappointed.

the control box has some issues. looks like a lack of attention/quality when it was assembled. i'll be contacting HighGravity monday to voice my concerns and see what they'll do for me. i will report back here with updates.

no wet test for me this weekend.

You really should have contacted them to discuss your issues before making the statement you just posted.

Just give them a fair chance. In your business you would expect the same respect. No?

 

[YNOT2K]

You really should have contacted them to discuss your issues before making the statement you just posted.

Just give them a fair chance. In your business you would expect the same respect. No?

while i respectfully disagree, i have edited my previous post to "soften" it for you.

i sent a message to HGB and am awaiting a response. i explained the issues to them in detail, something i did not do here in my previous post.

they will either resolve the issues or not, and i will certainly report whatever happens here as well.

i'm not bashing HGB at all - just reporting the facts so far.

 

[P-J]

while i respectfully disagree, i have edited my previous post to "soften" it for you.
...

Soften it for me? You publicly post a possible very damaging --- Geeze... Nevermind...

I see, bash 'em first and then explain. Good job.

Carry on with it. You are on your own.

 

[YNOT2K]

Soften it for me? You publicly post a possible very damaging --- Geeze... Nevermind...

I see, bash 'em first and then explain. Good job.

Carry on with it. You are on your own.

P-J, i did not bash them. you are wrong.

i just talked to Dave at HGB and he is going to take care of me.

it is obvious that they are going through some growing pains with this very popular product, and Dave is more than willing to make me happy.

i'll report back more as i test/use the system.

 

[Epimetheus]

If the pump is starved, an adjustable valve downstream of the pump can throttle down the flow rate so it does not pump itself dry. Throttling the flow causes the pump to work harder and it may overheat or otherwise shorten its life.

 

[crooow]

P-J, i did not bash them. you are wrong.

i just talked to Dave at HGB and he is going to take care of me.

it is obvious that they are going through some growing pains with this very popular product, and Dave is more than willing to make me happy.

i'll report back more as i test/use the system.

Any updates on your situation, YNOT2K? I was looking at this system but then came across this thread...

 

[NWMushroom]

I am at a stage where I can fill people in with my experiences...

When the system arrived, it worked fine but I needed to do a LOT of tightening around all of the bulkheads to make the system leak free. I also had to use a LOT of teflon tape. You really want to have a good supply of teflon tape and a couple of vice grips on hand to set this system up to be leak free. It's a shame it didn't arrive leak free in the first place.

I was initially sent the wrong plug but a new prong was sent to me as soon as I brought this to their attention (I needed a plug with 3 straight prongs) so I could replace that myself.

After the first test run, the controller stopped registering the temperature and would switch off the heating element. I was sent a replacement temperature probe cable, but the issue remained. I was then sent a new controller and that fixed the problem.

I did my first brew this week and everything went well. I still need to work on my processes to get my brew day down (my first time brewing electric, using a pump, using a platechiller!) but overall it went smoothly.

Hopefully the initial quality of the system when it leaves HGB improves - but I will say that they worked with me to send me anything/everything they thought I may need to get the system working.

I feel confident that should anything go wrong in the future, I'll be taken care of.

 

[YNOT2K]

Any updates on your situation, YNOT2K? I was looking at this system but then came across this thread...

one successful brew day is in the books. :rockin:

i would definitely recommend this system, but don't think that you're going to pull it out of the box and be brewing in 20 minutes - you won't be.

some assembly is done before it leaves HGB and there is more for you to do as well. check all connections as NWMushroom has stated above, because the bulkhead fittings installed already will likely not be water tight. the only "change" i made to the system was suggested to me by NWMushroom - disassembly and reassembly of the bulkhead fitting through the lid, moving the 2 o-rings both to the inside to help seal that one. it worked well.

i also plan on adding a ball valve in the hose after the pump instead of throttling the ball valve on the kettle before the pump.

got a bit more boil-off than my test had shown (ended up at 1.060 instead of my target of 1.056), but hit all my other numbers.

i'm brewing again on the 11th.

 

[theknub]

i chalk 1.056 to 1.06 as a beer 'addition'

 

[YNOT2K]

i chalk 1.056 to 1.06 as a beer 'addition'

i agree!

i'm not sure why i thought it was worth noting, but i am a bit picky in general.

 

[kzimmer0817]

Any updates from those of you who have purchased this system. I'm still quite interested. I enjoy DIY, but I simply don't have the time.

Have you been able to iron out the difficulties? Is the system performing satisfactorily? How is the recirculation working? etc.

Thanks,
Keith

 

[SpacemanSpiff]

Any updates from those of you who have purchased this system. I'm still quite interested. I enjoy DIY, but I simply don't have the time.

Have you been able to iron out the difficulties? Is the system performing satisfactorily? How is the recirculation working? etc.

Thanks,
Keith

I've done I think 6 batches now and I love the system. A few bugs to iron out but it saves so much time off my old brew day before the system.

Recirc is no issue at all but you have to use the bag that comes with the system or a bag with a similar mesh size. The batch I did using my old tighter mesh bag caused me problems with starving the pump. I lost control of that mash and it got hot and I can definitely tell in the finished beer. It's not bad, but definitely sweeter than it should have been.

The only other thing that is a minor annoyance is the controller. When I set the mash temp to 154 it gets there and then will bounce between 154 and 156 for the mash time. I don't like that its always high. I'm sure this could be corrected in the controller response, but for now I've worked around it by setting my setpoint a degree lower. So now it fluctuates around the midpoint I want instead of always being above.

All in all I'm very pleased.

 

[YNOT2K]

Any updates from those of you who have purchased this system. I'm still quite interested. I enjoy DIY, but I simply don't have the time.

Have you been able to iron out the difficulties? Is the system performing satisfactorily? How is the recirculation working? etc.

Thanks,
Keith

i have 3 brew days on this system and overall, i am pleased. one issue that i had mentioned earlier in this thread appeared to have been resolved, but is now back. i'm working around it. sigh.
i'm brewing again in a week or so. the beers so far have been pretty good, not great, and i've been able to hit my numbers pretty well. i'm a new brewer so can't yet pinpoint what i can do to make the beers better. could be process, recipe, etc. i'm glad i started out with ebiab all grain. i think i can adapt, modify, repair (sigh) and use this system for quite a while.

 

[kzimmer0817]

Recirc is no issue at all but you have to use the bag that comes with the system or a bag with a similar mesh size. The batch I did using my old tighter mesh bag caused me problems with starving the pump. I lost control of that mash and it got hot and I can definitely tell in the finished beer. It's not bad, but definitely sweeter than it should have been.
All in all I'm very pleased.

Thanks for the update. I had a feeling that the type of bag would matter. The Aussies and many other proponents of BIAB recommend the fine meshed Swiss Voile which is much finer than the paint strainer or laundry bags. I think folks - not limited to this particular system - tended to have recirc problems when they used the voile bag with the basket.

Another point mentioned in other threads is that it is important to have the valve placed AFTER the pump. You decrease the rate of recirculation by restricting AFTER the pump, not before it. This particular system appears to rely upon a sprayer inside the lid to provide the backflow resistance.

It might be helpful if someone would interpose an additional ball valve after the pump and post their results.

Regarding the temperature fluctuation, I wonder if the dwell in the PID can be adjusted such that it turns the element on with only a single degree drop from the set temp.

Thanks again,
Keith

 

[SpacemanSpiff]

No problem. I had the laundry bag that I used before and it was great. I liked the drawstring and the fact it felt substantial. I'm concerned for how long the paint strainer type that came with the system will last. That said, I'm not sure of any other driver for going finer. The coarser mesh lets more junk into the pot, but since starting to use hop bags, I really have almost no debris. My beers have come out clear as can be.

On the batch I used the voile I was able to get a recirc going but I had to tinker with the bag and had it pulled pretty tight before it was stable. That may mean its just on the edge and if you throttle back the pump with a valve it may work OK. It's just not something I'm planning to do though when it works just fine with the coarser bag.

I'm sure the PID can be adjusted and I really should know how to do that being a chemical engineer, but controls class was a long time ago. I probably just need to read the manual. The way it's set up out of the box, or at least mine, is that it fires as soon as it falls back to the setpoint. That might be OK if it didn't overshoot 2 degrees after that. Not a huge deal overall though.

 

[Sippin37]

Any updates from those of you who have purchased this system. I'm still quite interested. I enjoy DIY, but I simply don't have the time.

Have you been able to iron out the difficulties? Is the system performing satisfactorily? How is the recirculation working? etc.

Thanks,
Keith

While I actually started this thread because I thought this system would be perfect for me, I realized that being the only beer drinker in my house I was having a hard time putting away 5 gallons quick enough to fulfill my love of brewing. So instead I went ahead and spent $600-700 and built this 2.5 gallon system here:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/110v-recirculating-ebiab-2-5-gallon-batches-341219/

It is pretty much the same exact system just produces half the amount of beer in the end. It is a win/win for me because I get to brew more and also still brew inside which was my primary reason for wanting to go electric. I just wanted to mention this to anyone in case they thought a 2.5 gallon system would fit them as well and they could save a little bit of money in the end. It will take some time doing the wiring and drilling, but in the end I am happy as can be.

Cheers!

 

[kzimmer0817]

While I actually started this thread because I thought this system would be perfect for me, I realized that being the only beer drinker in my house I was having a hard time putting away 5 gallons quick enough to fulfill my love of brewing. So instead I went ahead and spent $600-700 and built this 2.5 gallon system here:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/110v-recirculating-ebiab-2-5-gallon-batches-341219/

It is pretty much the same exact system just produces half the amount of beer in the end. It is a win/win for me because I get to brew more and also still brew inside which was my primary reason for wanting to go electric. I just wanted to mention this to anyone in case they thought a 2.5 gallon system would fit them as well and they could save a little bit of money in the end. It will take some time doing the wiring and drilling, but in the end I am happy as can be.

Cheers!

Thanks for bringing some closure. I think there was some benefit from your thread. I'm actually thinking that I should do the same thing. I don't drink a lot of beer - perhaps 1 a day. My son, with whom I had hoped to do most of my brewing, is no longer at home. Therefore, it might be more interesting for me to brew smaller batches of different beers more often. I could experiment with it.

I currently have the 7.5 gallon SS pot that I purchased with my beginner's kit. I could install an element into it and save on the purchase of a kettle. I would probably still go ahead and do 220V controller (possibly High Gravity's simpler device).

Thanks for starting this thread. Please start a new thread to show your current work.

Thanks,
Keith

 

[kzimmer0817]

On the batch I used the voile I was able to get a recirc going but I had to tinker with the bag and had it pulled pretty tight before it was stable. That may mean its just on the edge and if you throttle back the pump with a valve it may work OK. It's just not something I'm planning to do though when it works just fine with the coarser bag.

When I first started researching BIAB appr 2 years ago, I began on the biabrewer.com forum. There was much talk about the bag material with particular emphasis on the fine-meshed voile over the coarser paint strainer or laundry bags. I forget the exact reasons. I think the finer bag allowed for a bit finer crush to be used thereby increasing efficiency. Also, the finer bag did not leave behind as much junk in the kettle.

When I discovered HBT, I stumbled upon, and was most encouraged by, builds by thughes, johnodon (no longer brewing, but his thread is still up), jsguitar, and voltin. I think they all used recirculation, the swiss voile bag, as well as the basket. Thughes abandoned recirculation as well as the basket, IIRC. Somewhere on HBT are is a thread that asks who's recirculating during mash (with BIAB) and another that asks who's still using the basket. It seems that many are abandoning one or the other or both.

One common problem with recirculation was that of starving the pump. Spacemanspiff, it sounds like this is what is happening when you use the voile bag. On the thread(s) where this is discussed, it was mentioned that there should be a valve at the pump outlet to control the flow and that the flow should be quite slow. IOW, you open your kettle valve completely but shut down your post-pump valve considerably. On Kal's website in his section "Brew Day Step by Step" he shows the pump valves barely open during the sparge.

Anyway, bottom line #1: if folks are having trouble with recirculation, it would be interesting to hear the results if you insert a 2nd valve at the pump outlet.

Bottome line #2: Something that negates much of what I repeated regarding the bag just occured to me. Many brewers perform a brief manual recirc after dough-in using a pitcher until the wort loses its cloudiness. Apparently, the grain bed acts as its own filter. This could provide justification for using the coarser bags for those who feel that recirculation is important for maintaining consistent mash temps.

Sorry about being so long-winded. While some people might abandon a project because they jump into it without thinking things thru, I, OTOH, often spend way too much time overthinking the project and performing many "dry runs" in my mind that I never embark on the project. I need to find the happy medium.

Thanks,
Keith

 

[jeffmeh]

FWIW, I use a very fine voile bag with a fine crush. Occasionally with a huge grain bill I will drain into buckets before lifting the bag, and it drains more than fast enough for recirculation.

+1 on having a valve on the pump output to regulate flow.

 

[SanMarzano]

Did you guys order the 3 prong or 4 prong outlet versions?

 

[SpacemanSpiff]

I got the 4 prong and put a GFI breaker in my panel.