Biab Cloudy Beer Considerations

[applescrap]

Cloudy, hazy, chill haze, murky, yeast in suspension...and on and on. The terms used to name a lack of clarity. This beer right here lacks clarity. The last one not so much. I have read threads on this site, biabrewer, and others and found all kinds of information. The flour in the bottom of the milled grain, squeezing the sack, poor chilling, and poor bag quality are some reasons for cloudy beer. I have found some defensive biab brewers and rightfully so, they post beautiful clear beers they made with biab, and they have won medals as well. I am wondering how they do it.

My beer can certainly be cloudy. It doesnt bother me for the most part, but I have no problem with clear beer either. I am certain time plays a role, cold crashing, and gelatin as well. So what makes my beer cloudy? I think its easy to see. I chill in 11 minutes or so, so probably not that. I stir the grain for about 5 minutes at dough in. I also stir it for 5 minutes to end mash. I squeeze every last drop out of the grain. My bag is a cheap lhbs bag. I throw hops straight in, and literally lift kettle and dump in fermentor everything from boil kettle. This beer i racked 7 days later and force carbed warm. Once it got a little cool i threw in gelatin. I knew it wouldnt help this train. So hazy. I think 2 or 3 weeks would help? That being said there is a freshness, a glow that I think is good. I would love help, but fear it just is what it is. Thoughts?

 

[Pkrd]

You gelatine the keg after its carbed?

 

[Hoppy2bmerry]

Are you using Irish moss or whirl flock in the boil? I also brew BIAB cheap bag from LHBS, but usually after 3 weeks in primary my beers clear unless it is a wheat beer, sometime those are pretty clear after bottle conditioning too. I don't think I do anything special, but I often use moss for styles that should be clear.

 

[TexasWine]

When I use a short boil (30 minutes) my beer is oftentimes cloudy. Do you employ a short boil?

 

[RM-MN]

Cloudy, hazy, chill haze, murky, yeast in suspension...and on and on. The terms used to name a lack of clarity. This beer right here lacks clarity. The last one not so much. I have read threads on this site, biabrewer, and others and found all kinds of information. The flour in the bottom of the milled grain, squeezing the sack, poor chilling, and poor bag quality are some reasons for cloudy beer. I have found some defensive biab brewers and rightfully so, they post beautiful clear beers they made with biab, and they have won medals as well. I am wondering how they do it.

My beer can certainly be cloudy. It doesnt bother me for the most part, but I have no problem with clear beer either. I am certain time plays a role, cold crashing, and gelatin as well. So what makes my beer cloudy? I think its easy to see. I chill in 11 minutes or so, so probably not that. I stir the grain for about 5 minutes at dough in. I also stir it for 5 minutes to end mash. I squeeze every last drop out of the grain. My bag is a cheap lhbs bag. I throw hops straight in, and literally lift kettle and dump in fermentor everything from boil kettle. This beer i racked 7 days later and force carbed warm. Once it got a little cool i threw in gelatin. I knew it wouldnt help this train. So hazy. I think 2 or 3 weeks would help? That being said there is a freshness, a glow that I think is good. I would love help, but fear it just is what it is. Thoughts?

At 7 days the fermentation shouldn't be much more than complete and the yeast wouldn't have had time to flocculate and settle so your beer should be extremely cloudy. Fermentation might still be occurring yet which will keep the beer stirred up. Give it some time to complete the ferment and the yeast settle out and your beer should be pretty clear. Add gelatin and cold crash to drop out proteins and you should get crystal clear beer.

 

[casualbrewer]

Get a quality bag, get a hydrometer to ensure complete fermentation, cold crash for a few days before racking to keg, and fine with gelatin. Give the gelatin at least 3-4 days to help clear things up before pulling a pint. Will still probably take a month or so before it is very clear.

 

[KeyWestBrewing]

Is this a serious thread? I feel like this dude is trolling everyone. He knows why his "lagers" aren't clear he's been told about it for over 20 pages in his last thread.

 

[MadHomebrewer]

How long has it been kegged? I found after sitting cold in the keg for two weeks it clears. Below no cold crash or gelatin. Just time in the keg.View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1473853989.249121.jpg

 

[soccerdad]

I use a Wilser bag, I squeeze minimally, I mostly just let the bag drain, I use Whirlfloc, I leave maybe a quart or 1.5Q of break material in the kettle, I ferment on average 10 days - on occasion less, and often more, I rack to keg (or bottle bucket) when hydro readings are stable for 2 days, and at this point the beer 'looks pretty clear, I steer the racking cane (auto siphon) pretty carefully around the bottom of the carboy, I seal the keg with one small co2 canister from a hand shot thingy, I put the keg on gas when space opens up. I use no gelatin or fishy stuff. When I bottle I go for 2 volumes of carb with dextrose.

My kegged beer is remarkably clear after drawing off the first half pint or so. Sometimes it surprises the hell out of me. My bottled beers are more hazy, but not terribly so. I try to get haze in my wheat beers, so I mostly bottle those.

Not sure if this helps, but the Wilser bag, the Whirlfloc, the 10 day standard, and the careful racking may have an impact. Cheers

 

[LLBeanJ]

Sounds like you're racking too early. Some brews are ready in a week, but I've found most need about 10-14 days, especially if there is a cold crash involved. Also, as others have already mentioned, get a better brew bag.

How long are you mashing? Are you sure you're getting complete conversion? Unconverted starches will cause haze that will never clear. I know there are some advocates on here for short mashes, but I've never felt a need to go there. My single infusion mashes are typically 60 to 90 minutes, depending on the temp (lower temp = longer rest).

Finally, I found that after I switched to 6 gallon batches (to yield 5 gals in the keg), my beers began to clear faster once kegged. More volume in the fermenter means I can keep the end of my syphon further from the trub cake, meaning less trub gets transferred to the keg.

I occasionally will use gelatin in the keg (mainly lagers), but with ales I usually don't bother and my beer is generally pretty clear within a few weeks of putting on tap. Even wheat beers, which should be cloudy will clear and I have to agitate the keg every now and then to shake the sediment back into suspension. I also run a pretty fine crush (mostly flour) and dump the entire contents of the kettle into the fermenter.

 

[applescrap]

You gelatine the keg after its carbed?

Yeah I did this time, it's my understanding it works at any time.

 

[applescrap]

Are you using Irish moss or whirl flock in the boil? I also brew BIAB cheap bag from LHBS, but usually after 3 weeks in primary my beers clear unless it is a wheat beer, sometime those are pretty clear after bottle conditioning too. I don't think I do anything special, but I often use moss for styles that should be clear.

Thanks, Yeah I've never tried those. I have heard they work. My last batch spent about three weeks in the primary and I think it would have been clear until I sucked up some of the trub. I suck at racking. Maybe it's time I use those. Also I just need to get another corny so I can keep a good pipeline going. That way I can let the beer sit a little longer.

 

[applescrap]

When I use a short boil (30 minutes) my beer is oftentimes cloudy. Do you employ a short boil?

Hi Texaswine, thanks, yeah I have been going 45 minute boils I forgot to mention that. I was wondering about that.

 

[applescrap]

At 7 days the fermentation shouldn't be much more than complete and the yeast wouldn't have had time to flocculate and settle so your beer should be extremely cloudy. Fermentation might still be occurring yet which will keep the beer stirred up. Give it some time to complete the ferment and the yeast settle out and your beer should be pretty clear. Add gelatin and cold crash to drop out proteins and you should get crystal clear beer.

Thanks rm-mn, I really need to get a pipeline going so I don't have to throw the beer out of its nest too quick. So time is a major factor?

 

[applescrap]

Oops duplicate

 

[applescrap]

Is this a serious thread? I feel like this dude is trolling everyone. He knows why his "lagers" aren't clear he's been told about it for over 20 pages in his last thread.

Thank g-d for the ignore list. I have half a mind to report you again.

 

[UndeadFred]

Yeah, I suppose I don't completely get the comments about cloudy BIAB beer unless the poster is doing something wrong.

Use a VOILE bag or curtain panel, especially if you mill fine for efficiency, which you want to do when BIABing. The paint strainers and LD Carlson bags are not fine enough.

I do 75 to 90 minute mashes and recirculate for mainly temperature reasons. I boil for 60. I add Irish Moss at 15, not because I am convinced it does all that much.. but it does a little and is really inexpensive.

I then (for ales) let ferment at 65-68F for a full week, then I turn off the fridge and let ride out at 68-70F for a week. Then I ramp down a cold crash in the primary for 3-4 days (I use a dorm fridge and it takes that long). I then add gelatin in the primary, let sit for two more days. Carefully move the fermenter to a table to siphon (I will eventually CO@ transfer but I'm not there yet.) Let sit a couple of hours to overnight to resettle. I then transfer to a keg, and either let it sit for a day or two at serving temp and then gelatin fine again (hey, it is cheap) or if I have time, I sugar prime the keg after sitting a day or two at room temperature and then put it in service after a week or two more. (The latter is better but tends to cloud the beer up a little). In the latter case I have a little device that I built that will force in the gelatin through the gas dip tube.

In all of these cases, the beer looks like it is filtered after a few days on tap and 2-3 pulls.

For lagers, I use the quick lager method, but it's the same after that.

But the secret is either time or reducing time with finings. Irish Moss in theory helps but I've forgotten it in at least 1/2 of the beers I have brewed and I still get clear beers when I desire it.

What might be true is a little more trub in the primary with BIAB. Most experiments have shown, quite counter intuitively that it is actually a positive for the flavor of the beer. I use big primaries and brew a little extra and still fill my 5 gallon corneys up fine.

 

[applescrap]

I use a Wilser bag, I squeeze minimally, I mostly just let the bag drain, I use Whirlfloc, I leave maybe a quart or 1.5Q of break material in the kettle, I ferment on average 10 days - on occasion less, and often more, I rack to keg (or bottle bucket) when hydro readings are stable for 2 days, and at this point the beer 'looks pretty clear, I steer the racking cane (auto siphon) pretty carefully around the bottom of the carboy, I seal the keg with one small co2 canister from a hand shot thingy, I put the keg on gas when space opens up. I use no gelatin or fishy stuff. When I bottle I go for 2 volumes of carb with dextrose.

My kegged beer is remarkably clear after drawing off the first half pint or so. Sometimes it surprises the hell out of me. My bottled beers are more hazy, but not terribly so. I try to get haze in my wheat beers, so I mostly bottle those.

Not sure if this helps, but the Wilser bag, the Whirlfloc, the 10 day standard, and the careful racking may have an impact. Cheers

Thanks so much it does help. How long do they sit sealed before they get into kegerator, and then how long in kegerator before drinking?

Another thing i was hoping you could help me with is sealing the keg. A guy at my lhbs told me after I racked the beer to fill it with co2 then drain and do again. I am filling and purging with co2 3 or 4 times or so, is this overkill? Also once sealed you just let them hang out till they are ready? So you basically have a pipeline all set up and ready to go as one kicks another goes in. Im envious, I need more kegs and fermentors. That way I could age some beer to. Anyways thanks for all your help.

 

[applescrap]

Sounds like you're racking too early. Some brews are ready in a week, but I've found most need about 10-14 days, especially if there is a cold crash involved. Also, as others have already mentioned, get a better brew bag.

How long are you mashing? Are you sure you're getting complete conversion? Unconverted starches will cause haze that will never clear. I know there are some advocates on here for short mashes, but I've never felt a need to go there. My single infusion mashes are typically 60 to 90 minutes, depending on the temp (lower temp = longer rest).

Finally, I found that after I switched to 6 gallon batches (to yield 5 gals in the keg), my beers began to clear faster once kegged. More volume in the fermenter means I can keep the end of my syphon further from the trub cake, meaning less trub gets transferred to the keg.

I occasionally will use gelatin in the keg (mainly lagers), but with ales I usually don't bother and my beer is generally pretty clear within a few weeks of putting on tap. Even wheat beers, which should be cloudy will clear and I have to agitate the keg every now and then to shake the sediment back into suspension. I also run a pretty fine crush (mostly flour) and dump the entire contents of the kettle into the fermenter.

Thanks and some good thoughts here. I definitely need a new bag. I do 45 minute mashes now and dont measure gravity. I assume based on taste, experience, reading that conversion is definitely happening but perhaps its time to measure. I'm a little curious anyways. Great tip about 6 gallon to yield 5 in keg and giving siphon space. I really want AIH 8 gallon fermentors so I can have more space. I average a gallon of trub for a normal beer and others can have more. So I believe it would be nice to have some extra space. My annual pumpkin beer has a massive trub and it would be near impossible to yield 5 gallons in a normal bucket fermentor. Anyways thanks again.

 

[dryboroughbrewing]

When using gelatin it really helps to have the beer as cold as you can get. Turn it down to 32, let the beer get there, bloom the gelatin, and then dump it in.

 

[applescrap]

When using gelatin it really helps to have the beer as cold as you can get. Turn it down to 32, let the beer get there, bloom the gelatin, and then dump it in.

I've been wondering this because I think I've tried gelatin twice now and it hasn't worked and both times the beer hasn't been fully cold crashed.

 

[applescrap]

Yeah, I suppose I don't completely get the comments about cloudy BIAB beer unless the poster is doing something wrong.

Use a VOILE bag or curtain panel, especially if you mill fine for efficiency, which you want to do when BIABing. The paint strainers and LD Carlson bags are not fine enough.

I do 75 to 90 minute mashes and recirculate for mainly temperature reasons. I boil for 60. I add Irish Moss at 15, not because I am convinced it does all that much.. but it does a little and is really inexpensive.

I then (for ales) let ferment at 65-68F for a full week, then I turn off the fridge and let ride out at 68-70F for a week. Then I ramp down a cold crash in the primary for 3-4 days (I use a dorm fridge and it takes that long). I then add gelatin in the primary, let sit for two more days. Carefully move the fermenter to a table to siphon (I will eventually CO@ transfer but I'm not there yet.) Let sit a couple of hours to overnight to resettle. I then transfer to a keg, and either let it sit for a day or two at serving temp and then gelatin fine again (hey, it is cheap) or if I have time, I sugar prime the keg after sitting a day or two at room temperature and then put it in service after a week or two more. (The latter is better but tends to cloud the beer up a little). In the latter case I have a little device that I built that will force in the gelatin through the gas dip tube.

In all of these cases, the beer looks like it is filtered after a few days on tap and 2-3 pulls.

For lagers, I use the quick lager method, but it's the same after that.

But the secret is either time or reducing time with finings. Irish Moss in theory helps but I've forgotten it in at least 1/2 of the beers I have brewed and I still get clear beers when I desire it.

What might be true is a little more trub in the primary with BIAB. Most experiments have shown, quite counter intuitively that it is actually a positive for the flavor of the beer. I use big primaries and brew a little extra and still fill my 5 gallon corneys up fine.

This sounds like a really kick azz brew process. It's nice to read and consider. I need a better pipeline so I can dial in better.

 

[ChefRex]

Hi.

 

[applescrap]

I am really grateful for the great clarity ideas discussed thus far. I am starting to see a clearer future (pun) for my beer.

One thing I mentioned in my first post is freshness. I mean I might finish a beer before another takes it out of the primary. Perhaps its a discussion for another thread, but I have wondered about age and freshness. When I have had kegs get really clear after a month in keg they seem stale at times to. Seems there is a consensus about a "sweet spot" but I still wonder about freshness. I guess I'm thinking out loud but welcome any thoughts on this.

 

[casualbrewer]

Staleness is more than likely oxidation.. too much oxygen exposure, careless racking, or forgetting to purge your keg after racking.

 

[applescrap]

So here is a 3 day progession of said beer. I bet if i hit it with gelatin now it would clear up? I assume there is no problem opening up corny (not that I am going to). This beer is 9/10 days old.

View attachment 1473900919531.jpg

View attachment 1473900942112.jpg

View attachment 1473900953409.jpg

 

[applescrap]

Sorry next pint a little clearer, wth? The gelatin? Assume i drank it by now.

View attachment 1473901460497.jpg

 

[DrunkleJon]

Question. So, you are trying to go from grain to glass in under 10 days and still have clear beer? What were your SG and FG? Was the FG steady for a day or three before you cold crashed and transferred to the keg? I saw you mention that you chill your beer down quickly after the boil, but how solid was your hot break? How long has it been since you have jostled or moved the keg?

The only way I know of getting a beer clear in that amount of time would be to pitch a crap load of vigorous yeast into a lower gravity brew so that the yeast has a chance to finish up and start dropping out of suspension by itself before you start cold crashing/using fining agents. If the yeast is still working, it is going to keep stirring itself into solution.

 

[applescrap]

^^boom, and there it is. I guess so. Can't blaim me for trying. You know I dont measure s..t. I use brewers calculators to estimate. I have a decent answer why I dont use hydrometer, but don't want to get into it now. I'll find the answer I gave to Gavin once. Not opposed to them though and see one in my future. Want to use for partigyles, yeast pitch amount, etc..5500 watt electric element good hot break, I think. Big kettle, no boil over concerns. I think it is 12 minutes mash to boil. I could double check. Anyways thanks for jumping in here, I think the second paragraph on yeast is solid and good points. Edit..This was grain to glass drinking semi warm day 6/7. Oops and it was a lager fermented at an unknown temperature.

 

[applescrap]

Oops estimate

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