For that grain bill, a 7.5 gal pot would be quite tight, but doable. As mentioned previously, you could scale down the water for the mash/boil & just top up in the fermenter. Should get you to approx the same end beer....
BIAB Brewing (with pics)
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MMJfan
Well-Known Member
So it is OK to use a little less water for the mash/boil and then add water to the fermenter to top it off at 5 gallons like you can do with extract brewing?
I've also saw where someone put their bag with grains in a bottling bucket and heated 3 gallons of water to 160 and then poured the hot water into the bottling bucket and let that sit for an hour and then drained using the spigot into another bucket. During the hour mash, they heated another 3 gallons of water to 170 degrees and then poured that over the grain bag and let it sparge for another 20 minutes. They then combined the buckets back into the kettle and boilded like usual.
This seems like an effective way of doing things as well?
If I can just top off the fermenter with water to get my 5 gallons, I might just do it that way though. Less equipment and mess to clean up in the end...
I've also saw where someone put their bag with grains in a bottling bucket and heated 3 gallons of water to 160 and then poured the hot water into the bottling bucket and let that sit for an hour and then drained using the spigot into another bucket. During the hour mash, they heated another 3 gallons of water to 170 degrees and then poured that over the grain bag and let it sparge for another 20 minutes. They then combined the buckets back into the kettle and boilded like usual.
This seems like an effective way of doing things as well?
If I can just top off the fermenter with water to get my 5 gallons, I might just do it that way though. Less equipment and mess to clean up in the end...
Keep it simple. Forget the sparge. Just mash in the 7+ gals, boil, transfer to carboy & top to 5 gals. You'll be fine. Don't over think it - the beauty of BIAB is its complete simplicity. When you start introducing sparging, etc., you move away from the initial intention. Just my IMO...
MMJfan
Well-Known Member
Cool. Sounds like a plan jmd... 
>>So it is OK to use a little less water for the mash/boil and then add water to the fermenter to top it off at 5 gallons like you can do with extract brewing?
Yes.
You don't have to mash super thin, you can hold a bit back, and sparge with the extra. Its not that hard, and will get you a few gravity points, and your mash will still be thin, but not super thin. You dont want too high a Ph Mash which you may get if it's super thin (10# and 7.5 gallons).
Yes.
You don't have to mash super thin, you can hold a bit back, and sparge with the extra. Its not that hard, and will get you a few gravity points, and your mash will still be thin, but not super thin. You dont want too high a Ph Mash which you may get if it's super thin (10# and 7.5 gallons).
How do you take a pre-boil gravity reading? Won't 150 degree water cause the reading to be way off, and possibly crack my hydrometer from the rapid temperature change? Seems like it would take a long time for it to cool off enough for me to take a reading.
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if you take the sample and place the sample tube in an ice bath (1 liter beer mugs work great) it'll cool fairly quickly. that said, I rarely take a pre-boil gravity test. in fact I only do it the firs 1 or 2 times I brew a recipe. if they're close (or on the nose!) and the post boil gravity is close, then I know my efficiency was in the range for the recipe. After that, I just take a post boil gravity reading.
mb82
Well-Known Member
I put the wort into the clear plastic case my hydrometer came in and put that into an icewater bath. It is not a lot of wort and it cools to useable temps in a few minutes.
Sounds good, thanks. Maybe I won't need to do it every time once I get BIAB nailed down, but this weekend will be my first attempt.
MMJfan
Well-Known Member
Brewed my first BIAB last night. It was a Great Lakes Holy Moses clone. I kept it simple as was suggested and we'll see how it turns out.
I had about 6 gal. of strike water that I heated to 160. Added my bag of grains and mashed for an hour at about 152 which is what I was shooting for. I then did a mash out by turning my burner on and heating the wort to about 168. I then removed the bag of grains and that left me with about 4 gal. left for the boil. I boiled for 60 and then cooled and transferred to my fermenter at which time I added a gal. of water to get to 5 gal. in my fermenter. I then aerated it and pitched my yeast and viola, the airlock is bubbling away today!
Hopefully this turns out ok! It was quite enjoyable to do though!
I had about 6 gal. of strike water that I heated to 160. Added my bag of grains and mashed for an hour at about 152 which is what I was shooting for. I then did a mash out by turning my burner on and heating the wort to about 168. I then removed the bag of grains and that left me with about 4 gal. left for the boil. I boiled for 60 and then cooled and transferred to my fermenter at which time I added a gal. of water to get to 5 gal. in my fermenter. I then aerated it and pitched my yeast and viola, the airlock is bubbling away today!
Hopefully this turns out ok! It was quite enjoyable to do though!
Sounds good MMJfan! Good luck with the results of your first BIAB!
I did my first BIAB and first AG brew last weekend. As with any new method, I had a few mishaps/learning experiences, but overall it was very smooth! Now that I've done BIAB, I see how awesomely simple AG can be, and I don't plan on looking back!
A few things though. Firstly, I had some trouble with the mash volume. I calculated 3.5 gal to give me a good water-to-grist ratio for my grain bill. However, this didn't really cover all the grain, and I ended up dumping in 4 gal total. That put me at a water-to-grist ratio of about 2 qts/lb I believe, which still isn't too bad. I'm concerned for bigger grain bills though. I understand 1.25 qts/lb is the ideal water-to-grist ratio. With more grains I'm afraid I'll have to exceed that. The source of my problems is that the basket I use wasn't designed for my pot. There are a couple inches of difference in their diameter. Thus I've got a good deal of water outside the basket.
I've read a few posts on here where guys talk about mashing with the full pre-boil volume doing no-sparge BIAB. Wouldn't that potentially cause harsh flavors from too high mash pH?
Second, I had a hell of a time with my mash temps. A had a bit of trouble maintaining temps, which I solved by direct fire while stirring. No big deal. I had a real problem with reading temps though. The brand new Taylor 1470 digital thermometer I bought from Amazon turned out to be a pile of junk. I did the crushed ice in water test (AFTER the brew, of course) and it read 14 degrees higher than all my other thermometers. Returned that pile of garbage. I did manage to hit my OG though, I think because I added 1 lb of base malt to the recipe. Just wanna let everyone know to beware the Taylor 1470 thermometer! I got a bad one!
Other than that, everything was pretty smooth. Business as usual. I'm really looking forward to tasting my first AG brew!
I did my first BIAB and first AG brew last weekend. As with any new method, I had a few mishaps/learning experiences, but overall it was very smooth! Now that I've done BIAB, I see how awesomely simple AG can be, and I don't plan on looking back!
A few things though. Firstly, I had some trouble with the mash volume. I calculated 3.5 gal to give me a good water-to-grist ratio for my grain bill. However, this didn't really cover all the grain, and I ended up dumping in 4 gal total. That put me at a water-to-grist ratio of about 2 qts/lb I believe, which still isn't too bad. I'm concerned for bigger grain bills though. I understand 1.25 qts/lb is the ideal water-to-grist ratio. With more grains I'm afraid I'll have to exceed that. The source of my problems is that the basket I use wasn't designed for my pot. There are a couple inches of difference in their diameter. Thus I've got a good deal of water outside the basket.
I've read a few posts on here where guys talk about mashing with the full pre-boil volume doing no-sparge BIAB. Wouldn't that potentially cause harsh flavors from too high mash pH?
Second, I had a hell of a time with my mash temps. A had a bit of trouble maintaining temps, which I solved by direct fire while stirring. No big deal. I had a real problem with reading temps though. The brand new Taylor 1470 digital thermometer I bought from Amazon turned out to be a pile of junk. I did the crushed ice in water test (AFTER the brew, of course) and it read 14 degrees higher than all my other thermometers. Returned that pile of garbage. I did manage to hit my OG though, I think because I added 1 lb of base malt to the recipe. Just wanna let everyone know to beware the Taylor 1470 thermometer! I got a bad one!
Other than that, everything was pretty smooth. Business as usual. I'm really looking forward to tasting my first AG brew!
The full volume BIAB water/grist ratio in most cases will not cause Ph issues. A standard mash for me is @ 12# grain in 9 gal water (5 gallon batch size). That's a ratio of 3:1 and Ph is typically @ 5.4 after mashing in. As I've stated elsewhere, don't let the oft-repeated theory and advice be taken as gospel.
As to the basket size thing, your bag should be large enough for your kettle to fit inside of it. That way when the bag is inside the kettle it will be against the walls/bottom and ALL of the water will be able to touch all of the grain. If your basket is a limiting factor why not skip it and simply put the bag directly in the kettle. A wire cake cooling rack on the bottom before inserting the bag will keep it away from the direct heat.
The bag does act as a temperature barrier so I recommend draining a few quarts from the bottom of the kettle and pouring it back in the top (poor man's recirculation) to eliminate stratification and stabilize temp. This is especially important before doughing in.
Most importantly.....Keep on brewin!
MMJfan
Well-Known Member
I was able to stabalize my mash temps by wrapping my kettle in an old sleeping bag. This worked very well as the temp may have dropped one degree over the hour mash.
MMJfan
Well-Known Member
I watched an episode of Brew TV that really pushed me to give this a try. It adds about an hour to what I did for extract brewing but it was still far less involved than what AG brewing is and yet you still get the flexibility of AG brewing that you don't get so much with extract brewing.
I'll probably continue doing extract brewing along with BIAB going forward. Of course, we'll have to see how my first BIAB turns out...
stop thinking about water:grain ratio like you were doing a traditional mash in a mashtun. With BIAB if you have a pot big enough, use all the water upfront. I have yet to run into a PH problem doing this and the extra mass will make it easier to hold the temps.
Get it to the desired mash temp, wrap it in old sleeping bags, blankets or even go buy some reflectix (water heater wrap sold at home improvement stores). it makes a big difference. if you drop a couple degrees during the mash.. that's OK (1-3 degrees is fine)
remember, relax. don't worry. have a home brew. In the end you're only making beer.
I'm curious as to why the ratio doesn't matter with BIAB. Is it just not that important to begin with, or is there something different about this mash?
I will gladly forget about it to even further simplify my brewing process, I just can't help but question why.
I will gladly forget about it to even further simplify my brewing process, I just can't help but question why.
Found one explanation here although I don't put much credence in anything I read without having tried it for myself. All I could tell you is that it hasn't been a problem in the few years/several hundred gallons I have brewed thus far.
"1 - I can and have gone into lengthy discussions about L:G ratios. Mainly, people seem to be concerned about Beta Amalayse enzymes becoming denatured too quickly at such a high L:G ratio; and leaving you with an overly dextrinous wort. Then again, others say that a thin mash leads to increased fermentability, and therefore BIAB worts will be overly dry. In a way, they are both right. Both these things are a concern. BUT, in practise, they seem to balance themselves out; and worts well within the normal range are produced. Even at the L:G ratios involved with BIAB, still by far the biggest influence on wort fermentability is temperature. To be on the safe side I mash 0.5 to 1 degree C lower in temp than I normally would, and haven't had problems yet. "
reference: http://www.thebrewingnetwork.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4650
"1 - I can and have gone into lengthy discussions about L:G ratios. Mainly, people seem to be concerned about Beta Amalayse enzymes becoming denatured too quickly at such a high L:G ratio; and leaving you with an overly dextrinous wort. Then again, others say that a thin mash leads to increased fermentability, and therefore BIAB worts will be overly dry. In a way, they are both right. Both these things are a concern. BUT, in practise, they seem to balance themselves out; and worts well within the normal range are produced. Even at the L:G ratios involved with BIAB, still by far the biggest influence on wort fermentability is temperature. To be on the safe side I mash 0.5 to 1 degree C lower in temp than I normally would, and haven't had problems yet. "
reference: http://www.thebrewingnetwork.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4650
Don't be a bonehead like me the first time and preheat your water to the same temp as for a partial water mash. You'll be looking for cold water fast and have a long boil, pre-hops to look forward to if you do.
SpacemanSpiff
Well-Known Member
BrewHaas said:
I'll second this. I don't know if it's just my setup or what, but the first BIAB batch I did I followed Beersmith's recommended strike temp and came up way high. After several batches of dialing in now, it seems like I only lose about 3 degrees on dough in. Anyone else see something like this?
MMJfan
Well-Known Member
Mine dropped about 7-8 degrees. Strike temp was 160 and mash temp was 152 and that's how it worked out for me...
Larger volume of water = less temperature drop when grain added, I believe it's simple thermodynamics. 9 gallons water/12 # room temp grain drops the water temp @ 6 degrees for me. Always start low because you can direct fire and raise temp easily (which you can't do in a normal concerted cooler MLT) but getting the temp down is a PITA. After a few runs and some good record keeping you'll have it nailed. Brew more beer!
Yep, I find Beersmith to be way off for my 9 gallon kettle. If I mash at 152, it usually tells me 159-160 and unless I have more than 13lbs of grain, for 11-12 lbs, I usually only need to mash in at 156. If I go to 15lbs, I find Beersmith to be closer to where I need to be.
Agreed - I usually mash at around 157 for 10-12# grain bills to stabilize at around 152. Rather come in low & add heat then have to add volume w/ cold water. That's a p-in-the-a & screws the final volume, OG, etc
It was my understanding that temp adjusting refractometers were for temp correcting the device not the sample. Are there ones available that will work with a hot sample?
I will have to keep looking, all the ATC models I have seen have small ranges (topping out far below mash temps) for correction and are listed to correct the temp of the refractometer itself not the liquid to be tested. It's such a small amount I suppose the temp drops quick so it may be a nonissue.
MMJfan
Well-Known Member
I have another BIAB question. I generally use kits for brewing and I have been doing all extract kits up until my last brew which was my first BIAB. But that was a recipe I found on the interweb. I was wondering if I could just order the AG kits from places like NB and brew them using the BIAB method?
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