BIAB and element in kettle.

[marjen]

I am looking to upgrade my kettle soon. I am going to be getting a 20 gallon Spike with an electric element added to it. Currently I use a drop in bag for BIAB. Will I be able to continue to use that? Or would I need to buy some kind of basket? Thanks.

 

[mcgimpkins]

As long as your bag is big enough for a 20 Gallon kettle you should be fine to use it. Get a Stainless Steel False Bottom for Brew In a Bag to keep the bag off of the element. It says in the description that 17.5" is the right diameter for a 20 Gallon Spike.

 

[marjen]

Great I will look into something like that.

I am also wondering how to control the temps. Electric brewing is new to me. Is something like the EZboil a good option? Just need to be able to set and hold the temp for the mash and them set it for boil.

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

You don't need a basket. A wilser bag and cheap pizza rack/ false bottom will work fine.

EZ boil seems to be the easiest most cost efficient way to go...If I was starting from scratch that's how I would go.

I'm thinking with a 20 gallon pot your doing 10 gallon batches with a 5500 watt element?
If so you need to power it with a 220 line...dryer outlet or some other way.

 

[Wizard_of_Frobozz]

I am also wondering how to control the temps. Electric brewing is new to me. Is something like the EZboil a good option? Just need to be able to set and hold the temp for the mash and them set it for boil.

If you don't already have a pump, I would highly recommend one. Pump from the bottom of the kettle back up to the top inside the bag. You need to keep the fluid moving in order to keep the temperatures even and give an accurate temperature for your controller.

You'll also need a temperature probe somewhere in the system. Lots of schools of thought about probe location - pros and cons to all spots. In the kettle will give you a good overall mash temperature, but you need a fitting/hole in the side of the kettle, and it can be something to catch on the bag (put it below the false bottom height if you can when you order the kettle but not so that it interferes with the heating element and drain). Inside the plumbing won't rip your bag, and it makes it easier to clean the kettle (one less cable to disconnect) but it only shows the temperature of the fluid, not the entire grain/fluid mixture. Not a big deal, really. My RIMS system has the probe in the plumbing and it works fine.

 

[doug293cz]

Great I will look into something like that.

I am also wondering how to control the temps. Electric brewing is new to me. Is something like the EZboil a good option? Just need to be able to set and hold the temp for the mash and them set it for boil.

Here's a simple design for a temp controller that uses the EZBoil and also has a switch for controlling a recirculation pump.



If you are plugging into a 4-wire, GFCI protected, wall outlet, then you probably need a NEMA 14-30 plug rather than the NEMA L14-30 plug shown in the drawing.

Brew on

 

[marjen]

Damn, I am confused already.

 

[doug293cz]

What are you confused about?

Brew on

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

Damn, I am confused already.

It goes like this:
Power in to Ez Boil from Dryer outlet or wherever
Power out to element form EZ Boil control box
A temp probe goes from EZ Boil to BK

The temp probe reads the temp....sends it back to the EZ Boil and then you simply turn up or down like a thermostat in your house.

If your going with a simple system you can skip pumps alarms and everything else.

The only thing you NEED to brew beer is a way to control the heat....and that's what the EZ Boil does.

 

[NarcolepticMoose]

I'm building a similar controller, but it includes a keyed switch and 2 contactors. Are the contactors unnecessary? Would it be possible to add a keyed switch to the diagram you provided Doug293cz?

 

[doug293cz]

I'm building a similar controller, but it includes a keyed switch and 2 contactors. Are the contactors unnecessary? Would it be possible to add a keyed switch to the diagram you provided Doug293cz?

The keyed switch needs at least one contactor, or it isn't worth having a key. I can easily provide a modified drawing. You doing a RIMS system or not? For RIMS, the element power switch would be interlocked with the pump switch, such that the elements could not be powered unless the pump was on. For a BIAB system, the interlock must be left out, or it won't work for boiling.

Brew on

 

[marjen]

It goes like this:
Power in to Ez Boil from Dryer outlet or wherever
Power out to element form EZ Boil control box
A temp probe goes from EZ Boil to BK

Ok so does the Ez Boil go into a control box? What does the box need in it? Looking for a simple setup here. Is it a box with some kind of connectors for the power in and out, and way to plug in the temperature gauge? What kind of parts do I need? I have been looking at the electric brewery site, I assume I could get what I need there? Thanks.

I am going to either get a custom 20 or 30 gallon spike kettle with a heating element. I am currently doing 5 gallon batches but just going through it too quick between myself and friends and family who are asking for beer, so going to start making 10 gallon batches but might make sense longer term to do 1/2 barrel. Looking to continue with BIAB long term as it should suit my needs up to 15 gallon. Where do you find simple controller boxes?

 

[NarcolepticMoose]

I'm building a biab system very similar to the one here: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=596834&highlight=Recirculating+biab

Quick shoutout to trav77 for his inspiring build and Doug293cz for making these diagrams for everyone. This site is incredible and the members here are awesome.

Marjen, I recommend reading this site: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com
Alternatively, there are lots of pre-built controllers if you don't mind forking over some $$$. If I were buying a pre-built system, I would probably get a hosehead or brausupply (https://brausupply.com/collections/electric-controllers)

 

[golfindia]

I'm building a similar controller, but it includes a keyed switch and 2 contactors. Are the contactors unnecessary? Would it be possible to add a keyed switch to the diagram you provided Doug293cz?

Having 2 contactors after the main one is the extra safe way to do it. However, all I do is put switches on each SSR control input, and use one contactor. Yeah, SSRs can fail closed, but the main contactor addrreses that. It's much easier/cheaper to add small low voltage switches unless you really need belt-suspenders piece of mind. I never have understood having a key to switch on your brewing gear. Do people have problems with unauthorized brewing???? :^)

 

[doug293cz]

... I never have understood having a key to switch on your brewing gear. Do people have problems with unauthorized brewing???? :^)

Some people have kids.

Brew on

 

[marjen]

So I am trying to get together a list of what would be needed here.

1. I need a small control box, black preferred. I will be getting 1 EZboil, 1 probe, and probably need to be able to control a single pump.
2. I will add a 240 breaker to my panel and run it to a wall socket. So need to know what socket? Also will probably need a couple extension cords, from socket to control box, control box to element.
3. Recommendations on element? Looking for a 5500 watt. TC clamp style.
4. recommended probe. Not sure if you can do tc clamp or do a 1/2" NPT thread, 1.5" long probe?
5. Which EZboil model do i need?

Thanks.

 

[Wizard_of_Frobozz]

So I am trying to get together a list of what would be needed here.

1. I need a small control box, black preferred. I will be getting 1 EZboil, 1 probe, and probably need to be able to control a single pump.
2. I will add a 240 breaker to my panel and run it to a wall socket. So need to know what socket? Also will probably need a couple extension cords, from socket to control box, control box to element.
3. Recommendations on element? Looking for a 5500 watt. TC clamp style.
4. recommended probe. Not sure if you can do tc clamp or do a 1/2" NPT thread, 1.5" long probe?
5. Which EZboil model do i need?

Thanks.

1. Go bigger than you think you'll need on the control box size. Auber has a lot of different sizes, and advice on what fits in them.
2. I've said this on other threads, but I highly recommend a GFCI 2 pole breaker. You can special order them from Home Depot; you do need to know what type of breaker panel you have to make sure you get the correct type. Here's a link to a Homeline style: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Square-D-HomeLine-30-Amp-2-Pole-GFCI-Circuit-Breaker-HOM230GFI/203226674 You can also get them from Amazon and Lowes.
3. If you want tri-clamp, Bobby at Brewhardware sells one: https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/element5500_ripple_tc.htm Make sure it fits inside the kettle (check the kettle diameter vs. the element length).
4. You can find lots of different probe options, depending how you want to connect it. NPT, Tri-Clamp, compression fittings are all available. Brewer's Hardware has a bunch of different ways to connect probes (not the same place as Brewhardware). I recommend some kind of quick disconnect for either the probe or the cable so you can easily disconnect and clean the kettle without having to unscrew the probe (TC works for that)
5. The EZ Boil DSPR120 controls just an SSR, where the DSPR300 also has two relays that you can program for various things (alarm buzzer, warning lights, pump control, etc). For $12 more, I'd go with the DSPR300 as its not much more and you get some future control features you can play with.

 

[marjen]

I have been doing a lot of thinking, and I am probably going to hold off on the electric brewing option for now. There are a lot of other things that would need to be in place I am realizing to make this truly an indoor option. Water source, drainage, ventilation, electrical, control etc. I think I want to wait until I can really do it right. Thanks for all e advise.

 

[doug293cz]

So I am trying to get together a list of what would be needed here.

1. I need a small control box, black preferred. I will be getting 1 EZboil, 1 probe, and probably need to be able to control a single pump. You should get all of the components that need to go in the box first, and then do some trial layouts, that allow adequate space for wiring, to get an idea how big the box needs to be. If you crowd the components too close together, you will kick yourself when you are doing the wiring.
2. I will add a 240 breaker to my panel and run it to a wall socket. So need to know what socket? Also will probably need a couple extension cords, from socket to control box, control box to element. The cheapest solution is to have your main power supply cord and element power cord hardwired into the control panel. That way you only need one plug on the end of the power supply cord, and one socket on the end of the element power cord. For the power supply, you will want your 240V 2-pole GFCI breaker in your main panel wired to a NEMA 14-30 receptacle wall socket. You then put a NEMA 14-30 plug on the end of your main power cord. For your element power cord you will need a NEMA L6-30 receptacle on the element end of the cord. You will need cable glands where the cords enter your control panel enclosure to provide strain relief and abrasion protection. You can use SOOW, SJOOW, SEOOW, or SJEOOW power cord. All the cords need to be 10AWG wire to handle 30A currents. The main power cord needs 4 conductors (Hot1, Hot2, Neutral and Ground), so you need 10/4 cable. The element cord only needs three conductors (Hot1, Hot2 and Ground), so this needs 10/3 cable.
3. Recommendations on element? Looking for a 5500 watt. TC clamp style. As Wizard linked, Bobby_M sells a very nice TC mount heating element. Bobby is also known to provide excellent customer service. Lower priced versions are available directly from China if you would rather go that route. PM @augiedoggy if you want information on where to order. Augie is also a great source for finding the lowest cost supplier for other components.
4. recommended probe. Not sure if you can do tc clamp or do a 1/2" NPT thread, 1.5" long probe? For the EZBoil the probe type MUST be an RTC PT-100. Probes with 1/2" NPT mountings are readily available. I don't know about TC mounts, but worst case you should be able to find a TC plate with 1/2" NPT female threading.
5. Which EZboil model do i need? Either will work. As Wizard pointed out, the DSPR300 gives you some extra capability, that you may or may not need/want, at a slight extra cost.

Thanks.

For the simplest control panel, with reasonable safety features included, use the design in post #6 above. With this design, the EZBoil powers up as soon as you plug the control panel into the wall outlet. If you are hard wiring the power cable in the panel enclosure, rather than having a plug mounted on the enclosure, then you want a NEMA 14-30 plug on the end of the cable, rather than the NEMA L14-30 shown on the drawing.

You need the main power switch (Leviton 3032, or equivalent) to provide positive (mechanical) disconnect of the element power. SSR's tend to fail in the "ON" state, so cannot be depended on to provide positive power disconnect, and besides the SSR only switches one of the hot wires to the element.

The element firing light lets you know if the controller is working correctly (actually providing power to the element.) If the element firing light is not flashing in rhythm with the "Out" LED on the EZBoil, then the SSR (or the control output of the EZBoil) has failed.

The fuses are needed where shown to allow you to safely use finer wires for the portions that don't need the 10AWG wire. After you work with the 10AWG wire a little, you will understand why finer wire is desirable where safe.

Brew on

 

[vr608]

I'm building a biab system very similar to the one here: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=596834&highlight=Recirculating+biab

Quick shoutout to trav77 for his inspiring build and Doug293cz for making these diagrams for everyone. This site is incredible and the members here are awesome.

Same here, I modeled my control panel after trav77. Doug293cz's diagram was indispensable during the entire build, I cannot stress enough how helpful it was.

I have been doing a lot of thinking, and I am probably going to hold off on the electric brewing option for now. There are a lot of other things that would need to be in place I am realizing to make this truly an indoor option. Water source, drainage, ventilation, electrical, control etc. I think I want to wait until I can really do it right. Thanks for all e advise.

Totally understand, I had similar thoughts when I started a couple months ago but in the end decided to tackle one area at a time. I started with drainage, then electrical, and finally ventilation. Fortunately for me I had plumbing already in place, otherwise that would have seriously stalled my brewery setup. You'll get there, just tackle each section individually. I saved a lot of money doing all the work myself, but of course some things are best left to professionals.