Biab (all grain) problems

[Homebrwer]

I'm not sure what is going wrong with my brews lately. I recently made the switch from extract/partial extract to all grain/biab. I have done one all grain 5 gallon batch of pumpkin (turned out just ok) and 2 batches of biab (both failed, see below).

The biab batches were a 3 gallon and a 2.5 gallon batch respectively. The first was an oatmeal stout that has a very tart flavor and tastes more like tea than beer (it also didn't carbonate well). The second batch was, call it a mild, left over grain from other brews and is very much like tea (also very little carbonation). My efficiency was very bad on both brews, in the 50%-60% range. I used carbonation tablets on the second batch.

My grains were double crushed at my homebrew store, mash temps were good, mashed for 60 minutes, and at least on the first batch I hit my OG. Both brews got down to the projected FG as well with Safale US-05.

I did not do anything special with my water though, as I never had before so didn't think it necessary. I am on well water if that helps but I do not know my chemistry.

I have another brew that I really want to make as biab 2.5 gallons (the method I'd like to focus on moving forward) but don't want to mess this one up and have 4 batches in a row of blah beer.

If anyone has some thoughts or suggestions I'd really appreciate it. I'll try to answer or add any info I can as needed.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Rockn_M]

Can you provide detail in your process? How much water did you use? What was your recipe? What type of yeast was used? Fermentation temps? How did you carbonate (with yeast or Co2 tank)? any other infomration could help figure out the issue.

 

[eluterio]

Agree with ^^^^^^^ Need more info. At first glance it would seem your recipe on the stout might be the issue.

 

[soccerdad]

Yep - say more about all of it, but especially ferm temps and mash temps.

 

[Homebrwer]

Sure. The stout is the recipe I was most confident in simply because it was a mod from this site.

4.5# Maris otter
.65# flaked oats
0.5# victory
0.5# pale chocolate
0.33# flaked barley
0.33# black barley
0.33# crystal 80L
0.1# dark chocolate

Mash for 60mins @ 156

1.5oz Willamette (4.8%) @60mins

Wyeast 1335

Boil time was 60 mins and the final batch size was 3.25 gallons

OG target 1.060 (didn't take actual due to stupidity)
FG target 1.015 (actual was about 1.012)

Does that help?

 

[Foosier]

How about fermentation temp control? Are you able to control the temps? If you have the beer in a 70 degree ambient room it is likely fermenting much higher due to heat from the yeast. That can lead to off-flavors.

I'd look closely at your water though. Well water is a likely culprit as there are usually lots of minerals present which can throw off the PH balance required. Since yu are doing small batches you could buy distilled water or R/O water from the store and use that. That could really clean up many issues without you doing much more. I would recommend looking at the simple brewing water sticky in the brew science forum for more details.

 

[eluterio]

For the tartness it could be either from yeast or the use of just a little too much dark malts. These stouts are a bit difficult cause soo many thing can tweek the flavor from system to system and water to water. As for the water down, thinner body, has to do with your process. Im not sure and I could be wrong but flake barley and oats barley dont they need to have something done to them prior to mashing?

 

[Homebrwer]

Well ferm temp is just climate in my basement. So the stout was about 64F and the mild was probably about 62F before being moved upstairs after 1 week to 68F.

The mild I think is thin because the recipe sucked (left over grain with low fermentables). But the stout I think is thin for se other reason.

I've definitely thought my water could be an issue but like I said I've used it many times before. Is water that much more critical to mashing than extract or partial extract?






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[thebrewquest]

Water is very different for all grain than extract. Extract already had proper water adjustments made when they were making the extract. Definitely look into water.

 

[Homebrwer]

Ok. I'm gonna go with some filtered water from the store for next brew then and see if that makes a difference.


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[jgarretson]

Your grain bill for 3 gallons seems too low. How are you calculating those numbers? I do 3 gallon BIAB batches and for 1.060 I would expect at least 2+ more pounds of base malt.
I've got a recipes for a porter that has about 2.5# grain per gallon and hits 1.058.

Start there before you go buy a bunch of water.


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[gnarlyhopper]

Yep

Until I got a clue about water chemistry, I attempted to use our system's non-chlorinated mountain tap water. After some failures, I decided to look into it. The water quality report included nitrates, and the overall PH is too high. The brews looked and carbonated great- but the overwhelming (bitter) taste was as if they were "dry hopped" with fresh leather jacket scraps. UGH.
Needless to say, I threw out the idea of "beer making is simple" due to the fact that established European breweries did not start with bad water-they knew nothing of the chemistry of their water, they just knew they could make good beer with that water source. Probably why famous beer wasn't brewed in 15,000 European cities.
I am looking to eliminate problems by

Checking PH and modifying when necessary
Using O2 to aerate
Using CO2 to displace air in fermenter
Building a "keezer" that will allow temp control

I want to make good beer. I suppose eventually I will get into water chemistry if that is still a barrier. I will be using a commercial bottled water that actually has a detailed water report published online. No more tap water.
How much does this all cost? We are paying about $75 a case for the beer we prefer, which has given us the best "evenings" and "mornings". It is refreshing and has great taste. If we can "clone" it, we have PAID OFF the setup expense.
There are a lot of brewing myths out there. If you are not in a location
where your water is perfect, that is strike 1. If you cannot properly control fermentation temperatures, that is strike 2. Strike 3? Add your preferred process mistake here (less than 100% cleaning, iffy sanitation, etc.).
All this to avoid brewing gutter beer. But it really isn't that much compared to the rewards.

I would send a bottle of this for sampling, but I am certain my insurance wouldn't cover damages.

So after selling of all of my brewing equipment TWICE, I am starting over. This time armed with just enough knowledge-to catch a good buzz.

Cheers!

-gnarlyhopper

 

[singybrue]

Another thing to check is the accuracy of your thermometer. If your thermometer is off, your mash temps are off and that can contribute to a thin body.

 

[CUrchin]

Where did you get the recipe? A stout should have roasted barley in it.


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[adiochiro3]

Another thing to check is the accuracy of your thermometer. If your thermometer is off, your mash temps are off and that can contribute to a thin body.

^^^This^^^ was my very first thought when I read thin or tea- like.

Sent from my brewery while sitting on the John.