Best way to work with co2 extract (hopshot)

[Vale71]

Will give this a try thanks. How much alcohol do you use per how much extract?
When I tried with vodka at 40% It didnt totally dissolve even after a long shake.

How would you describe the bitterness profile you get from the extract vs pellets?
How much do you typically use?

I'm afraid you'd just be wasting alcohol without any improvement. As already mentioned alcohol will evaporate almost instantly at wort boiling temperatures and once the solvent is gone the hop resins will be just as insoluble as if you'd dumped in directly.

 

[RocketBrewer]

Will give this a try thanks. How much alcohol do you use per how much extract?
When I tried with vodka at 40% It didnt totally dissolve even after a long shake.

I've never measured the amount, but i'd guess about an ounce for one 3ml syringe, a little more for multiple syringes. I've just used a 1 cup metal measuring cup and stirred it with something like a Popsicle stick until it dissolved. The higher the alcohol proof, the easier it will be to dissolve.

How would you describe the bitterness profile you get from the extract vs pellets?
How much do you typically use?

I've felt that I was getting a little stronger bitttering than expected that tended to linger a little longer. As was mentioned, Beersmith calculates the IBU's much lower than Yakima suggests it should be, so on my last batch (a pale ale that's going into a keg tomorrow probably) I changed the AA to 100. If I remember correctly, that added about 27.5 IBU's for 3ml in a 5.5 gal 1.054 beer (pretty close to what Yakima claims). Bitterness is a very tough thing to quantify unless you want to have your beer analyzed. Perceived bitterness may be considerably different than actual measured IBU's. My goal is just to dial it to give me about what I perceive to be the expected bitterness I'm going for. Time will tell if 100%AA is the right number to use, or somewhere between that and the original number. As far as how much I use, that depends on the beer. I've used 3ml in a 5.5 gal batch up to 18ml in a 11 gal batch of Triple IPA.

 

[whovous]

I've been using a syringe of the horribly named Hopjizz CTZ-based CO2 extract. I put the syringe in very hot water for a very long time before adding it to the boil. I've never noticed anything stuck to the side during cleanup. Not sure about my flavor vocab here, but I'd describe the bitterness as being "smoother" than what I perceive from T90 pellets.

 

[beervoid]

As mentioned, "clean" and "lingering bitterness" are two separate issues, but I do believe that C02 extract provides a more singular/clean bitterness expression than using T90 pellet hops of the same variety. For instance, Apollo or Hercules pellets would almost never be used in a German made helles/pilsner for bittering, but those hops as C02 extract are among the most widely used for the same styles. There are also other forms of hop extract (ethanol, ect) that preserve more of the original character of the hop (and things like glycosides) for those who feel C02 bitterness is one dimensional. That said, this really doesn't apply to the average IPA home brew. Use the product that gets you the character you want.

As for lack of bitterness via extract, most commercial systems are getting far better utilization and 30-35% is not uncommon, especially when using calandrias. I'd bet most 5-10 gallon pots would struggle to get 25% utilization and lack of a heating jacket can allow hop extract to adhere to the sides of the vessel and bind to trub and hop material.

Apart from yeast, tannins and other unwanted stuff in the beer, do you know if a lingering bitterness is connected to the type of bittering hop used or if its purely a water profile or IBU amount thing?

 

[mongoose33]

I've been using a syringe of the horribly named Hopjizz CTZ-based CO2 extract. I put the syringe in very hot water for a very long time before adding it to the boil. I've never noticed anything stuck to the side during cleanup. Not sure about my flavor vocab here, but I'd describe the bitterness as being "smoother" than what I perceive from T90 pellets.

At one point Morrey and I brewed the same recipe for a California Common with one exception: I bittered with Northern Brewer hops, he bittered with the Yakima Valley hop shot.

The two were very similar, very similar, with this exception: his bitterness was "smoother" while mine had a bit more bite to it. Both were very nice beers. So you're not the only one to draw that conclusion.

I've been using hop shots now for about the last....11 brews. I like 'em.

 

[Jayjay1976]

I've long suspected and IMO observed, that pellet hops can cause a rougher, unpleasant bitterness because of all the broken cell walls and chlorophyll, etc. Maybe that's just my impression but for that reason I tend to use whole hops for FW and early additions. I save the pellets for late additions, whirlpool, hopstands, dry- and keg-hopping.

 

[bierhaus15]

Apart from yeast, tannins and other unwanted stuff in the beer, do you know if a lingering bitterness is connected to the type of bittering hop used or if its purely a water profile or IBU amount thing?

There have been a number of studies that looked at the variety/type of hop product used for bittering and the resulting quality of bitterness; in short, there are significant differences between variety and the type of product used. Studies have also generally found that people prefer beers bittered with low CoH hops.... ect.

However, some recent work has shown that hop age and processing factors may have more to do with the perceived quality of iso-bitterness than we assumed. For instance, freshly pelletized hops often score lower for bitterness quality than pellets that are a few months older. But old and oxidized hops scored lowest of all, regardless of variety.

And pH is extremely important. High beer pH significantly increases the impression of harsh and more lingering bitterness, while low pH can both lower the impression of bitterness and increase the perception of astringency. A common figure is that 18-25% of the total perceived bitterness of a beer can be adjusted by changing the pH.

All said, however, most of these findings completely go out the window once you introduce dry hopping into the equation.

 

[whovous]

But hop age is a non-issue with CO2 extract, right? Mine is at least a few years old, and I've detected no difference.

 

[Vale71]

But hop age is a non-issue with CO2 extract, right? Mine is at least a few years old, and I've detected no difference.

Hop extract is not eternal and it's still subject to aging but at a very slow rate, provided the package is sealed. The ballpark figure is up to ten years at room temp. To really preserve extract forever you'd need to dunk it in liquid nitrogen like they do with.. herm.. "human samples".