Berliner weisse souring and ferm advice

[Jackoggg]

Hi!
I'm a first time poster here, I'm looking for some advice on souring a berliner weisse.
Basically I'm planning to mash as usual, transfer to kettle and do a short boil to sanitise and drop the ph to 4.5 during boil using lactic acid. Cool and transfer to stainless steel fv and inoculate with lactobacillus. Keep an eye on ph until it reaches around 3.5, transfer back to kettle and boil to halt the lactobacillus and add a small hop addition for around 3-4 ibu's. Clean fv, I'm able to recirculate caustic (sodium hydroxide solution) and peracetic acid, should do the job! Cool and transfer back to the fv and ferment as normal.
How does that sound to everyone? I've never attempted a sour before, any comments/suggestions/corrections would be greatly appreciated!
Cheers y'all!

 

[CA_Mouse]

Why not just leave it in your kettle? I've done this a couple of times and it works great, plus you don't have to worry about contamination in any equipment? Mash, short boil, add lactobacillus purge the top of the kettle with CO2 if possible (not an absolute requirement), wait 24 to 72 hours (depending on how fast it drops the pH), another short boil with hops and ferment like a regular ale (up your pitching rate because of the low pH though).

 

[Jackoggg]

Hey thanks, I probably should have mentioned that I'm brewing on a friends kit, pretty meaty, basically a micro brewery. Unfortunately he will need access to the kettle for other brews during the souring time. Also there is no easy way to purge the kettle, whereas I can transfer to a brite beer tank and purge easily and even lightly force carb the wort.

 

[CA_Mouse]

Purging the kettle is pretty simple. Check valve and hose connected to the drain valve. Just bubble CO2 through the wort.

Otherwise it looks like you've got it covered.

 

[flhb]

That sounds like a pretty good plan. I am a strong proponent of souring in a fermenting vessel rather than the kettle because it allows greater control of the wort. You are able to eliminate virtually all contact with oxygen which will help you avoid bad smells and flavors. Of course, it is possible to sour in your kettle and end up with a great beer. To each his own.

I follow the procedure and recipe in this Basic Brewing video:

http://www.basicbrewing.com/index.php?page=november-21-2014-sour-wort-berliner-weisse

 

[SpeedYellow]

Main thing is to be careful to avoid any contamination during the souring. Simply opening the lid and taking a little sample can introduce some wild yeast -- and unfortunately since you're souring very warm, those yeast can ferment out your wort FAST! I had one get infected while taking a sample, and it fermented out in less than a day. Ruins it, of course.

 

[masonsjax]

You can put a layer of plastic wrap on top of the wort, you'd be surprised how easy it is to use for this purpose. It clings to the surface and bubbles press right out.

I've had very good results skipping the initial boil and souring right in the mash tun by throwing in a small handful of uncrushed grain. To each his own, but it works well and lets you skip a couple of steps. It also makes taking a sample easy, just crack the valve, don't even have to open the lid.

 

[passedpawn]

I've made 2 (maybe 3) BW and never had good souring. I've tried elevated fermentation temps (90's), lacto in bottle, hot bottle conditioning.

Next time, I've got to try something else. Probably kettle fermentation, though I'm not sure what diff that will make. And if that doesn't work, it's sour-mash knuckle-ball microbe-roulette time.

 

[mabrungard]

It is important to NOT hop your wort before souring. There is no need to boil before souring. Just mash and runoff your wort as normal into a air-tight vessel. I use a corny keg. Dropping the pH to 4.5 is a very good idea to prevent other stinky organisms from gaining a foothold. Innoculate that wort with your lacto culture and keep the vessel at 90F+ for a few days.

When the wort has soured adequately, boil the wort to kill the bugs and hop it very lightly. Ferment as usual with a clean ale yeast, I've used US-05 very successfully for Berliner. It will handle a pH of 3.0.

 

[passedpawn]

It is important to NOT hop your wort before souring. There is no need to boil before souring. Just mash and runoff your wort as normal into a air-tight vessel. I use a corny keg. Dropping the pH to 4.5 is a very good idea to prevent other stinky organisms from gaining a foothold. Innoculate that wort with your lacto culture and keep the vessel at 90F+ for a few days.

When the wort has soured adequately, boil the wort to kill the bugs and hop it very lightly. Ferment as usual with a clean ale yeast, I've used US-05 very successfully for Berliner. It will handle a pH of 3.0.

I wish you were my neighbor. The one I have won't help brew at all, but drinks my beer with an energy belying his advanced years.

 

[CA_Mouse]

It is important to NOT hop your wort before souring. There is no need to boil before souring. Just mash and runoff your wort as normal into a air-tight vessel. I use a corny keg. Dropping the pH to 4.5 is a very good idea to prevent other stinky organisms from gaining a foothold. Innoculate that wort with your lacto culture and keep the vessel at 90F+ for a few days.

When the wort has soured adequately, boil the wort to kill the bugs and hop it very lightly. Ferment as usual with a clean ale yeast, I've used US-05 very successfully for Berliner. It will handle a pH of 3.0.

^^This^^

Although I leave mine in my kettle and do bring it to a quick, short boil just to ensure that I have nothing else living in there. I chill it to about 100*F and pitch my lacto, give it a firm stir (not adding O2), give it a quick bubble of CO2 through the drain port, cover with plastic wrap and the kettle lid, through a moving blanket over it and let it free drop. Boil it after it gets to the desired pH adding my hops and fermenting with any clean ale yeast (it does need a higher pitch rate because of the pH).

 

[Gibberoni]

The berliner I have on tap now was done with a kettle ferment. I mashed as usual, drained into the kettle, threw some grains on it. I covered it with the kettle lid and blasted some CO2 in there.

I maintained the temp at about 110F using my propane burner. It took about 72 hours and I was down to 3.5pH. It came out really good! I was pleasantly surprised.