Berliner Weisse - quick/kettle vs. aged using WLP630

[Murphys_Law]

I'm looking at making a Berliner Weisse and deliberating on what technique I want to utilize.

I have read a lot about the "quick sour", or kettle sour, method but am also looking at using White Labs Berliner Weisse Blend WLP630 which appears to need some time to finish (>6 months).

Do you get a better BW if it's aged or does the quick/kettle method turn out something that is as good, or nearly as good?

 

[nasty_rabbit]

Your question is “Do you get a better BW if it's aged or does the quick/kettle method turn out something that is as good, or nearly as good?”. That is probably a perspective call.
I pulled the following recipe from Brewing Classic Styles and have it going now. There were three options mentioned:
1 - Kettle sour – add “handful” of grain to the kettle and maintain 100f for a day or two to get the desired sourness then boil as usual, killing the bacteria. The results may vary from batch to batch due to no control of the amount of bacteria in the grain.
2 – Add a neutral ale yeast along with a Lactobacillus yeast to the primary and ferment as you would any ale (7 to 14 days until clear then package). The results should be consistent but may not get to an over the top sour.
3 – Sour it with a Berliner Weisse blend for >6 months along with tasting and testing to get to the desired flavor then package.
All will probably work, but I am going with the second option for a quicker turnaround and more consistency than the kettle sour method. If it turns out I will be able to replicate it. The third option is probably more true to style and patience is a virtue but I have never been very virtuous.

Berliner Weisse (brewing classic styles) Brew Date
Grist
4.25 lb Pilsner 1,871.1 g
3.00 lb Wheat 1,360.8 g
7.125 lb Grist total 3,231.8 g
Hops
1.00 oz Hallertau 4 %AA 15
1 oz Hop Total
Yeast
1 vial White Labs WLP011 Pick one
1 vial Wyeast 1338
11 g Safale 05

1 vial White Labs WLP677 Pick one
1 vial Wyeast 5335
Add neutral ale yeast along with Lactobacillus yeast in primary fermentation

 

[Magnus314]

I've done both and I prefer the quick kettle method IF...

... you're going to drink it soon. I've had quick kettle batches I loved that we drank in a couple months after bottling, and some that were overcarbed and "dirty socks" smell after 8-10 months.

 

[crane]

Your question is “Do you get a better BW if it's aged or does the quick/kettle method turn out something that is as good, or nearly as good?”. That is probably a perspective call.
I pulled the following recipe from Brewing Classic Styles and have it going now. There were three options mentioned:
1 - Kettle sour – add “handful” of grain to the kettle and maintain 100f for a day or two to get the desired sourness then boil as usual, killing the bacteria. The results may vary from batch to batch due to no control of the amount of bacteria in the grain.
2 – Add a neutral ale yeast along with a Lactobacillus yeast to the primary and ferment as you would any ale (7 to 14 days until clear then package). The results should be consistent but may not get to an over the top sour.
3 – Sour it with a Berliner Weisse blend for >6 months along with tasting and testing to get to the desired flavor then package.
All will probably work, but I am going with the second option for a quicker turnaround and more consistency than the kettle sour method. If it turns out I will be able to replicate it. The third option is probably more true to style and patience is a virtue but I have never been very virtuous.

Berliner Weisse (brewing classic styles)Brew Date
Grist
4.25lbPilsner1,871.1g
3.00lbWheat1,360.8g
7.125lbGrist total 3,231.8g
Hops
1.00ozHallertau4 %AA15
1ozHop Total
Yeast
1vialWhite Labs WLP011Pick one
1vialWyeast 1338
11gSafale 05

1vialWhite Labs WLP677Pick one
1vialWyeast 5335
Add neutral ale yeast along with Lactobacillus yeast in primary fermentation

Option 1 has multiple sub options, and using grain is not an option I consider due to the difficulties that come with it. Besides lactobacillus you can get other bacteria and yeast from the grain. I choose to use a pure source of lactobacillus for my kettle souring. NOTE: white Labs and wyeast are known for selling lactobacillus that is contaminated with yeast, so you should not plan on boiling to kill off the lactobacillus if you use their bugs. Omega is a good source of lactobacillus that sours nice and fast, but is a little pricey compared to the probiotic options out there. I go with the Swanson's P lactobacillus pills personally.

For option 2 you can pitch you lactobacillus first and then pitch the yeast 1-3 days later. This will give the lactobacillus more free range on the sugars and can produce a very sour beer in my experience.

I've never done option 3, so no comments as to whether it produces a better result. My speculation would be that if there is no Brett in the mix then I don't see the need for waiting that long unless it isn't souring fast enough, but the souring will probably stop after a few months anyway.

 

[Mjbolton88]

I've soured in the kettle with this with good results. (Heat blanket around 100F for 3-4 days) Someone at my local brew shop said that was maybe not good since there may be some actual primary action going on during the souring. Didn't seem to be a problem. Actually, I believe that many Berliners don't utilize a 2nd boil anyways, so it shouldn't be a problem to just take it straight from souring to primary (and pitching some ale yeast) without a 2nd boil... At least that's what I assumed/did with good results.

 

[leesmith]

Not sure what aging would contribute since I've never done one that way.

Here's the Milk The Funk Wiki article on Berliner Weissbier:
http://www.milkthefunk.com/wiki/Berl...issbier_Recipe

I've made the MTF recipe and it came out good. I've used their technique several times (Gose also) and the beer always came out nice.

Below is a link to a blog post I made about a quick sour I recently did:
http://www.laundrybrewing.com/2017/0...uick-sour.html

I've wrestled with making lacto starters and dealing with O2 ingress and all that stuff. But this last go with just pitching the lacto pills straight into the wort worked great. Put the fermentor where you normally ferment. Let it ride until you hit a desired ph and then aerate and pitch your yeast of choice.

This is the probiotic I use:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00BZ3YWXC/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Check out the other posts I've linked to in the blog article. If your on Facebook join the Milk The Funk group. It's great.