Berliner Weiss, many ways

[GatorBeer]

15 minute boil, added barely any hops. Pitched a starter built from dregs of Sierra Nevada/Russian River BRUX. (This is mainly sacch, barely any Brett)

I also racked a gallon onto pineapple chunks and it's really quite delicious.

 

[HokieBrewer]

2a - 50% wheat 50% six row, 8 IBUs hops, 15 min boil.

Pitched Lacto and 3 days later US05. Took 9 months to get the level of sourness I was looking for, but the taste is perfect. Very bright and lemony.

 

[terrapinj]

15 minute boil, added barely any hops. Pitched a starter built from dregs of Sierra Nevada/Russian River BRUX. (This is mainly sacch, barely any Brett)

I also racked a gallon onto pineapple chunks and it's really quite delicious.

i may try the longer/lowertemp mash next time to compare but I didn't pick up any carryover foulness post 60min boil.

how did the sourness compare?

 

[GatorBeer]

Definitely a lighter sourness. It might have developed a bit more with more time but I thought it was enough.

 

[Tiroux]

Anyone ever considered or tried adding Orange or Lemon peel in the boil for a Berliner Weisse?

By the way, my lacto and brett starters are on the go! This little beer is gonna be brewed on sunday!

 

[aknox]

If i wanted to make the sourest beer of them all, what are some of your recommendations? Time? Patience?

 

[TopherM]

If i wanted to make the sourest beer of them all, what are some of your recommendations? Time? Patience?

Bugs, time, and patience. The best homebrew sours that I've made are those with a mix of Brett and Lacto that are aged for about 12-18 months.

 

[GatorBeer]

If i wanted to make the sourest beer of them all, what are some of your recommendations? Time? Patience?

If you just want straight sourness, I threw a handful of raw grain into 5 gallons of berliner wort, kept it at 110F for 4 days and when I bottled/carbed it, it was like a warhead. Mouth puckeringly sour. Not in a good way, it was too sour.

 

[bknifefight]

If you just want straight sourness, I threw a handful of raw grain into 5 gallons of berliner wort, kept it at 110F for 4 days and when I bottled/carbed it, it was like a warhead. Mouth puckeringly sour. Not in a good way, it was too sour.

Yeah, you really should be tasting your sour mash as it progresses to make sure that it doesnt get too sour, every 8 hours or so.

 

[aknox]

So many options. i have to bottle my Berliner that is in the carboy this weekend so i can throw a handful of grain in my next batch with some bug County!

 

[Knecht_Rupprecht]

Anyone ever considered or tried adding Orange or Lemon peel in the boil for a Berliner Weisse?

By the way, my lacto and brett starters are on the go! This little beer is gonna be brewed on sunday!

A brewery here in Boston does an awesome Berliner Weisse with lemongrass. It's the perfect summer beer.

 

[Tiroux]

Okay guys! I have a problem with my brett starter (as you might have seen in my thread about that), so I'm not sure if I'm going for Brett or Sacch yet.

Brew day is on Sundar.

I'm considering adding a little bit of lemon and lime zest (yellow and green lemon, not shure the right terms in english) at the end of the boil. Not sure yet, I'll see!

 

[terrapinj]

brewed up my 1st attempt at a Berliner Weiße this weekend with the 5a Sour Mash technique

4# Pils
4# Ger Wheat Malt

OG was 1.043 so a bit high for the style but still should be an easy drinker

mashed on Thurs night and cooled to 115° then added 1/2# of uncrushed Acid Malt, purged with CO2 and sealed up my 10gal cooler
I only needed to add boiling water twice, thankfully if I had to open it up much more SWMBO would have nixed the idea of brewing that style again. smell wasn't as bad as I was expecting but still pretty gnarly, thankfully only smelled when opened up.

I ended up doing a 60min boil because of DMS concerns and then aerated and pitched some US-05. the temps were a bit lower after chilling and I haven't seen activity yet but hoping it's going strong today when I get home from work.

the prepitch wort had a nice tartness to it - really looking forward to this one.

kegged this up last night

really nice easy drinker - finished at 1.005 so 5%, a bit above style but still very smooth and refreshing

i would have liked some more tartness/sourness but I only tasted a 60° uncarbed hydro sample

next time I'll try letting the sour mash go for another 12+ hours and will split the batch after primary to add some dried fruit (maybe peaches or cherries) and try dry hopping the other half with some simcoe or citra

 

[weremichael]

I've brewed over 15 batches of Berliner Weisse (my wife requires it to be on top the entire summer) with a variety of methods and I am now convinced that my preferred method is equal parts pils/wheat; crystal hops (3.5 IBUs); and an OG of 1.037. I sour mash for 48 hours (hit heavily with CO2), boil for 15 minutes with the hops. I'll ferment with any clean ale strain (typically I'll use Pacman, San Diego Super Strain, or Chico) AND some brett (I've used Crooked Staves strain, Brett B, and Brett. L). I can keg within a month and enjoy or I can let it sit and get funkier.

 

[Tiroux]

I've brewed over 15 batches of Berliner Weisse (my wife requires it to be on top the entire summer) with a variety of methods and I am now convinced that my preferred method is equal parts pils/wheat; crystal hops (3.5 IBUs); and an OG of 1.037. I sour mash for 48 hours (hit heavily with CO2), boil for 15 minutes with the hops. I'll ferment with any clean ale strain (typically I'll use Pacman, San Diego Super Strain, or Chico) AND some brett (I've used Crooked Staves strain, Brett B, and Brett. L). I can keg within a month and enjoy or I can let it sit and get funkier.

You mean symbiotic fermentation? Both sacch and Brett at the same time?

 

[weremichael]

You mean symbiotic fermentation? Both sacch and Brett at the same time?

I don't know if it's truly symbiotic, but yeah I will pitch both sacch and brett at the same time into the wort.

I have a variety of brett. strains that I keep alive in my basement (currently only three). I feed them periodically and sample them before pitching to make sure they haven't developed any new undesirable flavors. I'm assuming there is some serious mutation going on in those gallon jugs.

Typically, I will make a healthy starter of the sacch strain and pitch a smaller amount of the brett strain. I assume that I am underpitching the brett, but I still get some brett flavor within a month and it will be funky after about three months (or seriously sour anytime after that). I believe that is a result of brett being able to thrive in an acidic environment better than sacch.

As a side note, don't use flaked wheat in a sour mash. It will turn into a mucus like consistency and be extremely hazy.

 

[Tiroux]

Ok thanks! Anyways, i think that I'll develop on the separated fermentation and use a controled lactobacillus strain. I find it simplier for me.

Just to make sure i understand, you keep a jug of starter, and when you need it, you take a part of it? And for ferding, you decant, dump the liquid and add new wort?

I'm thinking to wash the cakes after fermentation and begin a constant culture afterwise.

(80 hot peppers plants un the greenhouse, i'll need plenty of lacti for the fermented sauces!!!)

 

[weremichael]

Just to make sure i understand, you keep a jug of starter, and when you need it, you take a part of it? And for ferding, you decant, dump the liquid and add new wort?

Absolutely, that is my methodology. I taste the decanted liquid to see if it has the properties I'm going after. I've had Brett. L going for over a year with use every few months. My brewing guild stole the entire culture for a chai coconut porter, so I have to restart a lambicus strain.

I've never tried keeping lacto around. I have made starters with apple juice with great success (Thanks to a nice conversation with Vinnie Cilurzo). I imagine that an apple juice starter could keep a variety of acid loving bugs alive for quite a while. Might have to try that sometime soon.

 

[MidTNJasonF]

I just put a 5 gallon batch of the 5b version into the carboy this morning.

Sunday afternoon I mashed 3 lbs of Pilsner, 3 lbs of wheat malt, and 1/2 lb of acidulated malt at 149º for one hour. I then added cold water to bring it down to about 110º before pitching a few handfuls of unmilled Pilsner grain to the mash. I turned the CO2 nozzle onto it for a few seconds then arranged a layer of plastic wrap over the grain being sure to push it all the way out to the edges while also pushing out any air bubbles. I hit it with another few seconds of CO2 and capped it off with the very tight lid.

I got up this morning and heated some sparge water before awakening the slumbering beast from its chambers. First impression before sparge was very tart and quite funky. The nose was fairly pungent with a sour barnyard thing going on. Not completely unpleasant but close. After sparge I tasted again and found that the wort was still fairly tart but now was considerably more delicate and light. The aroma was also diluted as well.

I fought with wind, driving rain, and a freezing propane tank so it took a little while to get up to a boil. Once I was up to a boil I let it boil about 10 minutes and tossed in an oz of old German hallertau hops that I found in the back of the freezer for 5 additional minutes. One of the issues with having 30lbs of hops in the freezer is sometimes they go a bit missing. These were several years old and while still sealed in the original package and stored in a freezer they were a bit cheesy if you will. Should add a little character to the batch.

After the 15 minute boil I cut the, flame started the recirculation water, and ran it into the carboy at about 70 degrees. 5 gallons of 1.032 wort with a pitch of S-05. This one should be ready pretty quick and if it turns out well I will probably split the batch and put half on raspberries after primary.

 

[Tiroux]

I did mine yesterday as well.

4 lb wheat malt
4 lb pils malt

Mash it at 148-149 for about an hour, sparge quickly then boiled for 30-40m without any hops.

I then pitch a 1.5 L starter of lactobacillus delbrueckii in 2.75 gallons of wort and a 1.5L starter of Brett. C in another 2.75 gallons.

This morning, krausen and intense bubbling in both. In tow weeks I blend, then bottle 2 weeks after that.

 

[Xpertskir]

I recently visited Cigar City and they had a kumquat Berliner Weiss and holy crap it was delicious. I have an email into the brewer asking him on some details but so far I'm leaning towards this

50/50 continental pils malt and white wheat
Mash hop to about 5 Ibus Mash at around 150
Abbreviated boil to drive off DMS and to isolate the souring agent
Add a handful of Kumquats at flameout
Cool and pitch homemade lacto starter and keep wort in the 90ish degree range for 2-3 days
Cool down to high 50's and pitch Kolsch Yeast

Normal process from here on out and depending on the level of kumquat flavor I may "dry hop" with some kumquats that I have previously frozen and thawed for 5-7 days. Probably shooting for a 4-6 week grain to glass turn around.


This beer was seriously delicious and I can only imagine hot weather makes it even better.

 

[Tiroux]

Kumquat is a nice idea!! Dieu du Ciel recently done a kumquat IPA (i think with mosaic hops) and a friend of mine just from orange to kumquat in his witbeer, yesterday, I cant wait to taste it!

 

[malweth]

I'm planning on doing a sour mash, starting tonight. I like this idea of using 10% Aciduated malt to drop the Ph to 4.3, which is where lactobacillus wants to be, but not some of the other nasties that live on grain. Has anyone done this successfully? I will be adding the whole grain in a hop bag to my wort (vice in the actual mash).

Regarding DMS, I don't think it's a problem -- even with Pils malts. The boil does drive off DMS, but it's also the boil that creates the DMS. There's some discussion here that says DMS still isn't a problem in a pasturization boil (i.e. <15 minutes).


...very glad I found this thread, though!! I may have to attempt this one a few times. Has anyone used Rye vice Wheat?
(Also... planning on trying this brew out on my wife - who won't touch beer).

 

[zeekage]

I'm planning on doing a sour mash, starting tonight. I like this idea of using 10% Aciduated malt to drop the Ph to 4.3, which is where lactobacillus wants to be, but not some of the other nasties that live on grain. Has anyone done this successfully? I will be adding the whole grain in a hop bag to my wort (vice in the actual mash).

I used that exact method for my first and only (so far) Berliner. It worked out very well I thought. It won the Sour Ale category at my local competition recently out of 9 entries in that category.

Though, i just threw in a handful of uncrushed grain with the acid malt and let it sit at 95F for about 4 days. I covered with saran wrap as tight as i could to keep out any O2. I didn't get any of the vomit smell that I've heard can happen during a sour mash. I didn't use a hop bag or anything. Once i sparged, i did a 15 min boil with a random ounce of hops and then fermented it with WYeast 1056. It's delicious.

If i do it again I will mash with more water and sparge with less. I thin the sparge water diluted the sour a little too much.

(Also... planning on trying this brew out on my wife - who won't touch beer).

My wife is the exact same way about beer. However, she LOVES the berliner. She also generally likes sour/tart things so that helps. She liked sour beer before I did.

 

[Tiroux]

Sour mash seems to be very popular, i should try it for the second batch so I can compare.

I'm thinking... If I keep a lacto culture alive in a jug, eich I will do... What about putting some of lacto starter to the mash instead of raw grains?

I understand that there is lacto on the grain, bit you can't never know which strain you get...

 

[Calder]

I used that exact method for my first and only (so far) Berliner. It worked out very well I thought. It won the Sour Ale category at my local competition recently out of 9 entries in that category.

Though, i just threw in a handful of uncrushed grain with the acid malt and let it sit at 95F for about 4 days. I covered with saran wrap as tight as i could to keep out any O2. I didn't get any of the vomit smell that I've heard can happen during a sour mash. I didn't use a hop bag or anything. Once i sparged, i did a 15 min boil with a random ounce of hops and then fermented it with WYeast 1056. It's delicious.

I wonder if the acid malt lowered the PH to a level where the Clostridium isn't active.

 

[zeekage]

I wonder if the acid malt lowered the PH to a level where the Clostridium isn't active.

That's basically what the article says. If I remember right every 10% acid malt lowers the pH by 1. So the goal is a pH of about 4.3 or so which they implied was low enough to inhibit most "bad" bugs.

 

[smokinghole]

Each percentage of acid malt should be about 0.1 pH high proportions make it taste yogurty in my experience. I used 25% last spring in a saison.

 

[terrapinj]

has anyone successfully avoided the rancid smell from a sour mash by just flushing with co2?

my 36hour mash smelled terrible despite flooding the cooler with co2 each time i added more water and after adding the grain to inoculate. thankfully the smell boiled off and SWMBO loved the final beer so I can do it again

going to try the plastic wrap method next time

 

[zeekage]

has anyone successfully avoided the rancid smell from a sour mash by just flushing with co2?

my 36hour mash smelled terrible despite flooding the cooler with co2 each time i added more water and after adding the grain to inoculate. thankfully the smell boiled off and SWMBO loved the final beer so I can do it again

going to try the plastic wrap method next time

I think part of the reason I didn't get the rancid smell was that I didn't add water to the mash at all. I used a mini personal heater from amazon inside my ferm chamber to keep my cooler MLT up at about 95-100F for the whole time. If you add water you're adding o2 even if its small amounts. I think the o2 is what causes the rancid smell but I might be wrong on that.

That being said when I do this again I will be doing a much thinner mash so that I sparge with less. I feel like the sparge cut the sourness a little too much.

I also want to try lacto in primary sometime too to see if it gives a better sour was that the sour mash method.

"Many ways" indeed!! This is a fun beer to brew and drink!