Bent Shoe Brewing: From Broken Backs To Broken Wallets

[BentBrewer]

For anyone who like me had no idea what brew deck or HEBS meant

Humph! I gave you folks a link back in October!

Youse just gotsta pays attention!

The system is built by IDD in California by people specifically trained for that job.

 

[beernutz]

Humph! I gave you folks a link back in October!

Youse just gotsta pays attention!

Sadly I was paying attention in October but the older I get the shorter my span (that's what she said too). New brewery startups are apparently best left to the young or at least those younger than me.

 

[bobeer]

Good luck, bud. Keep us posted on the progress and keep the pics coming!

 

[Kampenken]

Sub'd.

 

[nDub]

So whats does a brew deck or HEBS mean? Anyone have a link I could check out?

 

[Pantherjon]

Scroll up to the 1st post on this page! But for laziness sake here it is...hopefully should answer all your questions...

 

[BentBrewer]

So whats does a brew deck or HEBS mean? Anyone have a link I could check out?

A 'brew deck' is pretty much the area you make the wort on/in. A HEBS, is a High Efficiency Brewing System.

The difference in the HEBS, over traditional systems, (traditional being a pretty broad coverage here) is that the system heats faster, mashes faster, and boils faster than what most people are using. 2 hours from grain to wort, as opposed to 6~8 hours from grain to wort.

 

[nDub]

A 'brew deck' is pretty much the area you make the wort on/in. A HEBS, is a High Efficiency Brewing System.

The difference in the HEBS, over traditional systems, (traditional being a pretty broad coverage here) is that the system heats faster, mashes faster, and boils faster than what most people are using. 2 hours from grain to wort, as opposed to 6~8 hours from grain to wort.

Thank you. (I was just being an @ss with my tongue in cheek question right after people just asked for links...)

So with the HEBS is it energy intensive to get up and running but low energy to keep running? Like recapturing energy as apposed to just letting it run off into the ether?

I heard on a brewery tour (Lagunitas) that one of the big cost to big breweries for a shutdown wasn't so much loss of productivity but the huge energy cost to get it back up and running. So they run 24/7, batch after batch.

 

[BentBrewer]

Thank you. (I was just being an @ss with my tongue in cheek question right after people just asked for links...)

I guess if I hadn't been on my fourth beer, I might have sussed that.

So with the HEBS is it energy intensive to get up and running but low energy to keep running? Like recapturing energy as apposed to just letting it run off into the ether?

Like a lot of the better systems, the HEBS will run your now hot cooling water from the exchanger into the hot liquor tank. Supposedly, due to the awesome insulation, we'll only lose (working off memory here) four degrees Fahrenheit if the water sits in the tank for 12 hours. Added to that the calandria steam system that's installed, (5 minutes from cold to boil supposedly) and any temperature drop shouldn't be much of an issue.

I heard on a brewery tour (Lagunitas) that one of the big cost to big breweries for a shutdown wasn't so much loss of productivity but the huge energy cost to get it back up and running. So they run 24/7, batch after batch.

They're big enough that they can sell the amount of beer made in 24 hours too!

The downside of running 24/7 (in addition to too much product) is the manpower cost. That's one of the reasons we went with the HEBS. We're hoping we can run one 8 hour shift day, and still keep every fermenter on the floor full. That's 4~6 fewer people to pay. Lots less overhead. Natural gas is cheap.

 

[Kampenken]

This thread keeps getting better and better! A question I have, after reading the above water conservation is when you add your water adjustments? I presume your cooling with straight tap water and need to adjust. Do you add these in a separate cool water kettle and mix into the total mash water?

 

[BentBrewer]

The water in Lincoln, while clean, can come from seven different locations. Soooo, we're putting in an RO system. That means that whatever's in the liquor tank, is basically pure. Since we'll be doing everything from stouts, to strongs, to IPA's, I'm planning on mineral additions as the grain goes into the mash tun. If for some reason that method isn't panning out, I'll backtrack and try something else.

 

[Kampenken]

The water in Lincoln, while clean, can come from seven different locations. Soooo, we're putting in an RO system. That means that whatever's in the liquor tank, is basically pure. Since we'll be doing everything from stouts, to strongs, to IPA's, I'm planning on mineral additions as the grain goes into the mash tun. If for some reason that method isn't panning out, I'll backtrack and try something else.

If your RO system is as fast as your HEBS, great! I know residential ones can be slow. If slow and you need to run and collect maybe this is the time to adjust water. All I've read is water additions are to cold water. I'm no expert but maybe you should inquire on any issues. If is a strong concern I'd bet you could simply add to a separate cold gallon or two, dissolve and add, but I've no clue. I guess other brewers work it out fine!! Two more Q's. Will you measure mash pH and how fast will you mash? I guess you won't (?) cut boil short, so 2hrs total is quick! I have zero knowledge of brewing on this scale, so quite interested! Thanks for your answers. Cheers

 

[killian]

looks nice! Good luck!

 

[BentBrewer]

If your RO system is as fast as your HEBS, great! I know residential ones can be slow. If slow and you need to run and collect maybe this is the time to adjust water. All I've read is water additions are to cold water. I'm no expert but maybe you should inquire on any issues. If is a strong concern I'd bet you could simply add to a separate cold gallon or two, dissolve and add, but I've no clue. I guess other brewers work it out fine!! Two more Q's. Will you measure mash pH and how fast will you mash? I guess you won't (?) cut boil short, so 2hrs total is quick! I have zero knowledge of brewing on this scale, so quite interested! Thanks for your answers. Cheers

You don't need a fast RO system, as long as you have a place to store the water. We're looking at a 60~80hl per 24 hour system, with 120hl storage. If anything breaks, we have a days worth of water on hand.

No idea why you'd want to add the minerals to cold water, hot works a lot faster, especially for gypsum.

Mash Ph is going to be with a Milwaukee 102 meter. Same one I've been using on the test system. I find that once one determines the proper acid and mineral additions, you usually hit the same Ph every time, so it becomes less of a worry. When you're doing something different every time, like most home brewers then you need to pay a lot of attention.

Not sure what you mean by 'how fast will I mash'. It takes a defined amount of time for the amylase to do it's conversion process so there's really no rushing the mash. Mash-in, is reasonably quick due to a large mill, and an auger.

 

[Kampenken]

The difference in the HEBS, over traditional systems, (traditional being a pretty broad coverage here) is that the system heats faster, mashes faster, and boils faster than what most people are using. 2 hours from grain to wort...

No idea why you'd want to add the minerals to cold water, hot works a lot faster, especially for gypsum. ..

Not sure what you mean by 'how fast will I mash'. It takes a defined amount of time for the amylase to do it's conversion process so there's really no rushing the mash. Mash-in, is reasonably quick due to a large mill, and an auger.

The post of yours above noted mash faster, that's where I was confused. Along with 2hrs grain to wort. I assume most brews will be one hour boils, so was curious how this mash faster was working!

I read to add minerals to cold water, per Bru'n water calculator. Reread again now and it notes for acid and gypsum to be cold water additions. Acids due to heated water reduces RA and you can overshoot pH (maybe though it can be calculated at a hot water rate?). Gypsum is more soluble in cool water, again maybe can be adjusted.

Any more progress picture updates? Looking forward to it!

 

[nDub]

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