Bells Oberon Clone

[BrewSpook]

Crypto -

Hope you don't mind, I converted this to an extract so my FIL could take a crack at it. Here is what I came up with using stats for Briess DME.

% LB OZ Malt or Fermentable ppg °L
55% 3 14 Light Dry Malt Extract info 42 4
38% 2 10 Dry Wheat Extract info 42 3
7% 0 8 Dextrin (CaraPils) Malt info 33 2

Boil 45 mins 1.0 Saaz pellet 5.5
Boil 15 mins 1.0 Saaz pellet 5.5
Dry hop 14 days 1.0 Cascade leaf 5.5
Dry hop 14 days 0.5 Saaz leaf 3.5

Wyeast American Wheat (1010)
(will use harvested yeast from Oberon bottles)

Original Gravity
1.057
(1.051 to 1.059)
Final Gravity
1.014
(1.012 to 1.015)
Color
4° SRM
(Yellow)
12.8 HBU
18.9 IBU

5.7% A.B.V
186 per 12 oz

All calculations done on Hopville.com recipe generator

 

[KCPyrate]

Crypto -

Hope you don't mind, I converted this to an extract so my FIL could take a crack at it. Here is what I came up with using stats for Briess DME.

% LB OZ Malt or Fermentable ppg °L
55% 3 14 Light Dry Malt Extract info 42 4
38% 2 10 Dry Wheat Extract info 42 3
7% 0 8 Dextrin (CaraPils) Malt info 33 2

I'm interested in the extract version above but not sure about how the ingredients proportions work out or how many lbs of Malt to use based on the calculations... Is there missing info above or am I just not understanding how this is read?

 

[adamjab19]

3lb 14oz of light dry malt extract
2lbs 10oz dry wheat extract
8oz dextrin malt

 

[BrewSpook]

Exactly, the format didn't transfer as well as I hoped, but it all lines up. I was thinking you might even want to add 4oz Crystal (maybe 20-40) to darken it up a bit. My extracts always turn out a bit darker than planned, but 4 SRM is a bit low for Oberon, I'd want to add something to get the color up a bit.

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

Wow... Mine just went into the kegs and it is going to be awesome. Sweet with an awesome hop aroma. I will save full judgment for a couple weeks from now, but I have very high hopes.

 

[Cryptochronolite]

So Boerderij, How is it going with the oberon?

Antje.

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

I haven't tapped it yet, but m close to doing so. I am bottle conditioning the half I fermented with Wyeast 1762 Belgian Abbey II and force carbing the Wyeast 1272 Am II. I should be able to draw my first conditioned and carbed pint this weekend. I will give a report then.

 

[JSomps6]

well - how is it??

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

Good reminder... whoops. I will do a sit down side-by-side-by-side review tonight with Danika. More to come.

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

Brewlog

page 1

page 2

page 3

page 4

page 5

page 6

page 7
real attenuation cut out for picture limit, click here if interested.

page 8

Aroma 10/12
Sweet bread, lemon zest, and orange. A small hint of alcohol heat and wheatiness. Very similar to Oberon.

Appearance 3/3
Bellowy head that holds at around half a finger. Exactly the same color and stability as Oberon. The color is maybe 1 SRM darker than Oberon but VERY close. The above picture shows the center beer a bit darker but that is only because of the picture, my two samples were the exact color and more like the one shown on the right. This beer is brilliantly clear with both yeasts but the 1762 sample is not fully carbed yet, so the head was underwhelming as shown in the photos.

Flavor 15/20
Malty sweetness and citrus are great. The citrus has an orange zest character to it and the finish showcases a pleasant wheat flavor. Gives a warming sensation in the aftertaste. The 1762 had a spicey note that was not as nice, still fine but not like Oberon. The 1272 was very close to Oberon. I had a slight tinge of astringency just barely noticeable that I have been battling in all my brews. I didn't tell Danika about it and she didn't notice so I think I may just be on hype-alert for the astringency thing.

Mouthfeel 5/5
Perfect, clears nicely from the palate to finish dry while maintaining a full body during the mid palate. I like the mouthfeel of mine better than Oberon and think the finish is much more pleasant, though they are vary similar.

Overall 8/10
Right on the money, pretty damn good beer. This is one of the best beers I have brewed and will likely make this a pretty regular thing. It is very close to Oberon and the finish on mine was more pleasant IMO. Not even sure what I would change. I will likely make a full gallon starter next time and try to culture some yeast from Bells.

I scored the 1272 version a 41/50 overall. I really think this is a good beer which I rarely say about any homebrew, rarer yet my own.

 

[greenbirds]

Thanks for the detailed write-up. I will be practicing my decoction skills in the near future with this recipe.

 

[Cryptochronolite]

Awesome.

First of all, I had no idea brewsmith was such good software, your brew notes make met wet.
Second, I was worried about the abby ale II and curious about the 1272. I am glad it worked out okay for you. I think the yeast from the bottle really sets this one down.
Questions: Do you think that the decoction 1.) contributes to the correct maltyness for oberon? 2.) maybe contributes to the (albeit slightly) darker 1srm or so in color? Or (since we are going for perfection here in a clone) do you think that there maybe something in your equipment that may change this?

Also, your ferment temps - I ferment at (primary and secondary) at 65F. Do you think that your higher temps might add the ghost "astringency?" I may not have nearly as sensitive taste buds so discerning the difference between the real oberon and this recipe may not be possible for me.

In a double-blind taste test, I was able to only tell which beer was "fresher" tasting, I was not able to tell which one was oberon, so I correctly guessed that mine was the fresher of the two. My BF and his miller-light drinking buddy were unable to tell the difference at all.

As a side note, a BJCP judge gave me 41.25 points for this clone, so you seem to be a good critic - or at least as accurate as a bjcp judge.

Two last questions, and this is along the lines of the first ones, but just for personal notes:

Do you think that the decoction changed this beer flavor profile closer to oberon than without a decoc?

Do you think that decoction is worth it, in general, as far as taste and complexity are concerned (vs. cleaning and mash moving)?

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

Well my notes are not all from BrewSmith I use Kaiser's brewlog which can be found at braukaiser.com and the efficiency analysis is also from Kaiser. The first two sheets are what Brewsmith gives me and I use them as guides for my brewday and use the brewlog to record what actually happens. I am still getting better at note taking and finding it is making me a much better brewer.

I would say the 1272 was a good option but would not recommend the 1762 Abbey II.

The balance of sweet maltiness and hops was very good. I have not done a non-deco brew of this to compare, but I can tell you the flavor profile was very similar. Some slight darkening will occur with a deco and I had my deco in the pot for a long time so I could have seen more darkening than your regular single decoction. I doubt my equipment contributed to any darkening, I have a very high quality triple ply stockpot I use as my deco kettle and heat very slowly to avoid such problems. I think I simple got more color from a longer decoction.

I can definitely say that temperature is not the source of my astringency. I have sensed it over three batches now two of which were fermented in my fermentation chamber and fermented at the low end of the yeasts range. I need to find my problem but I have ruled that out. I am going to replace all plastic and clean my brewery down with bleach, I think that will do it.

I fancy myself a good judge of beer albeit a bit lenient at times. I think that score is very accurate, this is truly a good recipe.

I do think the deco lends a nice maltiness to this beer that would not be present otherwise. I did an enhanced single decoction because I am wary of leaving the mash in the protein range for more than 15 minutes, and my schedule allowed my to do a nice deco pull and jump out of the protein rest range quickly.

I think decoctions are worth it. The intangibles in a beer can only be brought out by subtle improvements in one's process and I feel decoctions are one of the things that can make the difference. Without a side-by-side it is impossible to tell, but I think the deco works very well here.

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

As a vote of confidence for this recipe, I will be taking this to a six pack stimulus party I am attending soon. I don't normally subject the public to my beer as it is not normally very good. I feel comfortable putting this beer in a group with top tier professional beers.

 

[RandalG]

^ Congrats on your success.I'll be trying this one at some point for sure. And thanks for the link.That is a valuable tool for continuing success.

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

As a vote of confidence for this recipe, I will be taking this to a six pack stimulus party I am attending soon. I don't normally subject the public to my beer as it is not normally very good. I feel comfortable putting this beer in a group with top tier professional beers.

One small step for homebrew, one slightly bigger step for this beer recipe.

They loved it. It was a big hit at the party and it has been demanded as the featured beer for next years party. Pretty cool.

The guy who throws the party is a senior partner at the law firm I work at so it is cool to get some street cred in the office.

 

[Cryptochronolite]

phew. I was worried that you may have been biased. not that worried. okay... I wonder what recipe I should perfect next.

I am thinking fat tire. but there are some pretty good ones already out there.

 

[Cryptochronolite]

wait that sounded pretentious. and stupid.

What I meant to say was, I love obsessing over the flavors of beers. I would like suggestions of what beer I can obsess over next.

 

[reefwreak]

Crypto -

Hope you don't mind, I converted this to an extract so my FIL could take a crack at it. Here is what I came up with using stats for Briess DME.

% LB OZ Malt or Fermentable ppg °L
55% 3 14 Light Dry Malt Extract info 42 4
38% 2 10 Dry Wheat Extract info 42 3
7% 0 8 Dextrin (CaraPils) Malt info 33 2

Boil 45 mins 1.0 Saaz pellet 5.5
Boil 15 mins 1.0 Saaz pellet 5.5
Dry hop 14 days 1.0 Cascade leaf 5.5
Dry hop 14 days 0.5 Saaz leaf 3.5

Wyeast American Wheat (1010)
(will use harvested yeast from Oberon bottles)

Original Gravity
1.057
(1.051 to 1.059)
Final Gravity
1.014
(1.012 to 1.015)
Color
4° SRM
(Yellow)
12.8 HBU
18.9 IBU

5.7% A.B.V
186 per 12 oz

All calculations done on Hopville.com recipe generator

Thanks for the extract recipe, however when I plug it into beersmith, it comes up with TOTALLY different end results than what the hopville calculator came up with in the above post.

Beersmith gives:
OG: 1.067
FG: 1.015
Estimated Color: 9.6
IBUs: 35.3
ABV: 6.8%

Any thoughts? I tried plugging Boerderij_Kabouter's recipe into BS and then having it convert to extract, however it just said to use 56lbs of extract.... and I don't think that's correct.... So any thoughts on an extract recipe for this other than the suggested one, or any modifications to the suggested one? Anything tried and true? I'm looking to brew this for my best friend, since it's his favorite beer, and he always complains that it's too expensive to buy. Homebrew to the rescue!

 

[BrewSpook]

Yeah I really need to get a copy of Beersmith or some other software. The generator at hopville, while nice and easy to use doesn't always seem to give me what I am looking for.

I think it would be easy to figure out using a piece of software like that if you stick with the percentages and do the conversions from the original recipe.

 

[XXguy]

www.beersmith.com Free Trial & cheap to buy if you like it.

 

[JoMaMa]

I tried to plug Boerderij_Kabouter's recipe into BS and i could figure out the mash schedule...I'm trying to get a partial mash recipe for Oberon...anyone had luck with any other recipes out there?

 

[XXguy]

I'm curious - how big is your brew pot ?

You could just half the recipe listed & go with a 2 1/2 gallon batch as all grain if you have the necessary size boil kettle.

 

[jayareo]

I am currently drinking my first batch of a different clone recipe for Oberon - since I haven't been in MI for a while - and I cannot get it out here in MA (dammitall), I am only sampling mine - which is a tasty brew on its own. It reminds me of Oberon so far (for whatever that is worth).

Will post the recipe I used when I can - its significantly different from the one here ...

 

[ekjohns]

My first recipe wasn't as close to the original but I knew I was on to something. I used Wyeast 1010 (VERY CLOSE) but not exact. I then decided to harvest some Bell's yest from a bottle. - that's when it became perfect.

Did you just let the bottle sit of a little while then slowly poor the beer off and resuspend the pellet at the bottom in a yeast nutrient starter? Could you please give me more detail?

 

[ekjohns]

I have only bottled this beer, I am going to keg this final batch and see how she does.

How did the kegging turn out. I am going to try this an keg it as well. On a rating of 1-10 (10 being identical) how did you rate the finished product to bells?

didnt realize you were from columbus.. me too GO BUCKS!

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

Did you just let the bottle sit of a little while then slowly poor the beer off and resuspend the pellet at the bottom in a yeast nutrient starter? Could you please give me more detail?

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/culturing-schneider-weiss-yeast-bottle-77670/

 

[ekjohns]

this is going to be a noob question but i just want to double check. My LHBS has cascade but its AA is 8.7. Would i be better to just use 0.5 oz with the higher AA or use less to match the 8.7. will using less result in less of the hops flavor from dry hopping? on page to the all grain used cascade at 5.5

 

[adamjab19]

Use less to match the IBU's. Plug the numbers in a brewing program or an online bitterness calculator and you shall see. Hop AA are always changing.

www.tastybrew.com has some decent online calculators. Plug and chug!

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

this is going to be a noob question but i just want to double check. My LHBS has cascade but its AA is 8.7. Would i be better to just use 0.5 oz with the higher AA or use less to match the 8.7. will using less result in less of the hops flavor from dry hopping? on page to the all grain used cascade at 5.5

Use AAU bittering calculations.

AAU = AA% x oz.

for example:

1oz. cascade at 8.7AA% equals 8.7 AAU.

To find out how much hops to use at a different AA% just work backwards.

8.7 AAU = 5 AA% x X oz.

8.7 / 5 = 1.74 oz. of cascade hops at 5 AA%.